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Reason #1078 why India will never get out its underdeveloped poor state


sandeep

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On 11/6/2020 at 11:38 PM, coffee_rules said:

In most gated communities in Bangalore where I lived from 15-17, offices in MNCs, apartment buildings, malls, the security personnel was always people from North and/or North-East India. The same was true for bartenders, waiters, ushers in restaurants and some of saloons where they have personnel for washing hair, etc, were all certainly not local people. They could not speak Kannada if their life depended on it. 
 

Do you want to say they can’t find locals for the same jobs? 
 

This safeguarding of jobs for unskilled workers for locals is a legit state mudda. The bill and any law should specifically say it is for unskilled workers, Any others for skilled worker jobs is not good for businesses.

Sad to see educated folks talk like this - state level "reservations" or hiring quotas are a retrograde step, guaranteed not to provide from a fiscal/economic perspective, and only serve to stoke intra-regional prejudice in society.  

 

Either you are one country or you are not.  Why the differentiation between unskilled and skilled, if a kannadiga can go and work in the top echelons of MNCs in Bombay and Delhi, why are demanding barriers for poor chowkidars from North/North East.  Smacks of self-serving double standards.  

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57 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Sad to see educated folks talk like this - state level "reservations" or hiring quotas are a retrograde step, guaranteed not to provide from a fiscal/economic perspective, and only serve to stoke intra-regional prejudice in society.  

 

Either you are one country or you are not.  Why the differentiation between unskilled and skilled, if a kannadiga can go and work in the top echelons of MNCs in Bombay and Delhi, why are demanding barriers for poor chowkidars from North/North East.  Smacks of self-serving double standards.  

Also, who are we to judge what is skilled vs unskilled?   I guarantee that I will be a terrible chowkidar.  I love my sleep, I am slow to react, soft-hearted and don't have the stomach for fights.  It is a different skill-set.   Most of us will be terrible instri-waalas or domestic help or cooks or babysitters.  When I watch the guys who collect my trash here every week, their alacrity and strength are things to appreciate.  They are all different skills and to call them unskilled is elitist.  Some jobs are paid more than others, but are they really worth more than others?  I think not.  

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1 hour ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

Also, who are we to judge what is skilled vs unskilled?   I guarantee that I will be a terrible chowkidar.  I love my sleep, I am slow to react, soft-hearted and don't have the stomach for fights.  It is a different skill-set.   Most of us will be terrible instri-waalas or domestic help or cooks or babysitters.  When I watch the guys who collect my trash here every week, their alacrity and strength are things to appreciate.  They are all different skills and to call them unskilled is elitist.  Some jobs are paid more than others, but are they really worth more than others?  I think not.  


In general, if one pays to learn a new skill or those that require a college degree or those jobs that need specialized skills that is learnt through a Ed course are classified as skilled workers jobs. Others like security guards, maids, waiters, busboys, sanitation workers, garbage pickers are not considered skilled, although it needs some adaptations that can developed if you are motivated to do the job.

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I will tell why educated ones like me think this way. I had a paternal uncle who didn’t complete highschool , didn’t learn any skill for a vocation, finally through some contacts got a job as a security guard, close to 20 to 30 years he did good, got married as well. In recent years, his contractual company lost in favor of a different one, lost the contract in many buildings and fired him. We came to know that the other company bid less and got workers from NE for relatively lower salaries. That’s what is the impact of migrant workers who work for pittance and hence impacts the jobs of people.

 

This is same reason why some people have similar grievances regarding H1bs as well. They work for 60% less than local US citizens and impacts their livelihood. 
 

Take the case of Assam , where their local culture, language was sidelined by scores of Bengalis migrating, so not only jobs, they also fear losing their identity reg culture, language etc. 

 

Ideally, this is the case of having limited resources and everybody wanting to grab a piece of the pie. It is not an ideal world to think India is one, but the ground realities are tougher and it needs correction from time to time.

 

Every state is making such laws which is against the constitution, but because of the local politics and issues. Hence, I was thinking to minimizing impact to big businesses, but at least regulate jobs for the poor. It is a mitigation, until all areas do get development and migration can be minimized. I think 50k salary  is too high for the law. It should lower as 15-20k. 


https://blog.forumias.com/reservation-for-locals-in-private-jobs/

 

 

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On 11/7/2020 at 3:15 PM, Stan AF said:

Not one bus @Real McCoy Did you forget??? it is 40+.  They were sitting in a depot quietly if i'm not wrong.

 

cavery-collage.jpg

 

https://www.thenewsminute.com/article/cauvery-crisis-more-30-kpn-travels-buses-set-fire-bengaluru-49766

 

https://www.india.com/news/india/cauvery-water-dispute-over-56-buses-set-on-fire-at-kpn-bus-depot-near-bengaluru-watch-video-1483048/

 

No one can forget the 40+ buses (some say it was as high as 56) of KPN in 2016. The reason is Supreme court ordered karnataka to release cauvery water. And the girl who lead the mob was very young and from poor economic backgrounds. I'm pretty sure the mob was exploited for their poverty and made to do this.

 

India has far too many poor people to actually make any sort of meaningful progress. Unless you cut poverty, provide education and infrastructure, and address so many other structural deformities it is bound to stay poor. This imbalance adds and adds more problems to whatever we're facing now.

 

 

 

How many districts in TN are dependent on Kaveri water? 

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On 11/7/2020 at 4:45 AM, Stan AF said:

Not one bus @Real McCoy Did you forget??? it is 40+.  They were sitting in a depot quietly if i'm not wrong.

 

cavery-collage.jpg

 

https://www.thenewsminute.com/article/cauvery-crisis-more-30-kpn-travels-buses-set-fire-bengaluru-49766

 

https://www.india.com/news/india/cauvery-water-dispute-over-56-buses-set-on-fire-at-kpn-bus-depot-near-bengaluru-watch-video-1483048/

 

No one can forget the 40+ buses (some say it was as high as 56) of KPN in 2016. The reason is Supreme court ordered karnataka to release cauvery water. And the girl who lead the mob was very young and from poor economic backgrounds. I'm pretty sure the mob was exploited for their poverty and made to do this.

 

India has far too many poor people to actually make any sort of meaningful progress. Unless you cut poverty, provide education and infrastructure, and address so many other structural deformities it is bound to stay poor. This imbalance adds and adds more problems to whatever we're facing now.

 

 

 

This was insurance fraud. I was in India at that time, happened very close to my house. 

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14 hours ago, coffee_rules said:

@sandeep will post a rebuttal after you learn how to debate without getting personal  

hold on, not sure where I got "personal".  Did I insult you by calling you "educated"?  I expressed disappointment in the nature and tenor of your opinion.  That I am sad, to see such a view, can be seen as "personal", but to me, not to you.  Please explain what you meant.

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2 hours ago, sandeep said:

hold on, not sure where I got "personal".  Did I insult you by calling you "educated"?  I expressed disappointment in the nature and tenor of your opinion.  That I am sad, to see such a view, can be seen as "personal", but to me, not to you.  Please explain what you meant.


Never mind, I’d never associate education to an opinion, that is an insult. Anyhow I have explained my POV in the above post. 

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15 hours ago, coffee_rules said:

I will tell why educated ones like me think this way. I had a paternal uncle who didn’t complete highschool , didn’t learn any skill for a vocation, finally through some contacts got a job as a security guard, close to 20 to 30 years he did good, got married as well. In recent years, his contractual company lost in favor of a different one, lost the contract in many buildings and fired him. We came to know that the other company bid less and got workers from NE for relatively lower salaries. That’s what is the impact of migrant workers who work for pittance and hence impacts the jobs of people.

 

This is same reason why some people have similar grievances regarding H1bs as well. They work for 60% less than local US citizens and impacts their livelihood. 
 

Take the case of Assam , where their local culture, language was sidelined by scores of Bengalis migrating, so not only jobs, they also fear losing their identity reg culture, language etc. 

 

Ideally, this is the case of having limited resources and everybody wanting to grab a piece of the pie. It is not an ideal world to think India is one, but the ground realities are tougher and it needs correction from time to time.

 

Every state is making such laws which is against the constitution, but because of the local politics and issues. Hence, I was thinking to minimizing impact to big businesses, but at least regulate jobs for the poor. It is a mitigation, until all areas do get development and migration can be minimized. I think 50k salary  is too high for the law. It should lower as 15-20k. 


https://blog.forumias.com/reservation-for-locals-in-private-jobs/

 

 

I empathize with your personal story and example. But there is a massive difference between comparing inter-state mobility to "H1-B" visas.  And it does not matter what flavor of employment we are talking about - skilled, unskilled etc.  As an Indian, you ought to have the right to reside and work in any part of the country.  If you want to 'protect' regional culture, doing so by implementing selective prejudice, whether its for "lower level" jobs or all of them, is most definitely not the answer.  Requiring children to learn the state language in primary and secondary school, is fine.  Requiring language proficiency for certain customer-focused jobs is also fine. But mandating quotas based on caste, religion, or ethnicity is medieval foolishness in my view. And destined to fail anyway.  

 

Such quotas are more about buying votes rather than solving the actual issue - they carry the "feel-good" factor of 'hitting back' against outsiders, but in reality, lead to consequences that hurt the local economy.  And that does more damage to the local folks and their 'culture' than some "Northerner" chowkidars and household maids etc ever could.

Edited by sandeep
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15 hours ago, coffee_rules said:


In general, if one pays to learn a new skill or those that require a college degree or those jobs that need specialized skills that is learnt through a Ed course are classified as skilled workers jobs. Others like security guards, maids, waiters, busboys, sanitation workers, garbage pickers are not considered skilled, although it needs some adaptations that can developed if you are motivated to do the job.

Textbook definition.  Still not a good reason to have different rules for local quotas based on these categories. 

 

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7 hours ago, Ranvir said:

Don't worry everything is ok. The heads of Google and Microsoft are Indian, the UK chancellor is Indian, the richest man in falana country is Indian. We are better than the Pakistanis. Don't worry don't worry.

 

Just get on your balcony with your steel plate and spoon.  Celebrate "world's largest" statue that was made in China.  Be happy that Modi's picture is sent to space.  Rename a cricket stadium to honor the "dear leader".  Tomorrow, name something else after his ever growing beard.  

 

I want more Nitin Gadkaris, and fewer morons.  Is it too much to ask?

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1 hour ago, sandeep said:

 

Just get on your balcony with your steel plate and spoon.  Celebrate "world's largest" statue that was made in China.  Be happy that Modi's picture is sent to space.  Rename a cricket stadium to honor the "dear leader".  Tomorrow, name something else after his ever growing beard.  

 

I want more Nitin Gadkaris, and fewer morons.  Is it too much to ask?

 

Its unravelling fast. Wonder why his beard is growing so much lol, what theatrics man. 

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2 hours ago, sandeep said:

 

Just get on your balcony with your steel plate and spoon.  Celebrate "world's largest" statue that was made in China.  Be happy that Modi's picture is sent to space.  Rename a cricket stadium to honor the "dear leader".  Tomorrow, name something else after his ever growing beard.  

 

I want more Nitin Gadkaris, and fewer morons.  Is it too much to ask?

Love and Respect from the UK.

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12 hours ago, sandeep said:

 

Just get on your balcony with your steel plate and spoon.  Celebrate "world's largest" statue that was made in China.  Be happy that Modi's picture is sent to space.  Rename a cricket stadium to honor the "dear leader".  Tomorrow, name something else after his ever growing beard.  

 

I want more Nitin Gadkaris, and fewer morons.  Is it too much to ask?


meh! Gadkaris will not win elections. Simple. Shahs and Modis do. 

Edited by coffee_rules
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33 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:


meh! Gadkaris will not win elections. Simple. Shahs and Modis do. 

And condemn India to forever remain a potential economic 'tailunt', instead of delivering on it. 

 

Shah is a goon, Modi was a goon in the past.  I know that the BJP gets a lot of 'support' simply by being 'not congress'.  But I expect educated folks to be a helluva lot discerning than that.  

 

 

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meh! Gadkaris will not win elections. Simple. Shahs and Modis do. 


The man has had three stints of fantastic governance and understands the needs of Indian people.

At this level, you need a person who can clearly communicate a vision and ensure it's implementation. Nobody does it better than Modi.Simple.

It seems people here want India to go back to Congress days where daily scams ruled the news and only 15 paisa reached the masses.
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10 minutes ago, Yoda-esque said:

 


It seems people here want India to go back to Congress days where daily scams ruled the news and only 15 paisa reached the masses.

 

 

Here we go, the tyranny of low standards and herd mentality.  Just because you criticize and call out certain questionable policies and actions of the current administration, doesn't automatically translate to "want India to go back to days of Congress".  You do not have a monopoly on patriotism, or wishing India to do better.  

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