sandeep Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, Autonomous said: Partition was just not on basis of one particular religion but to exercise religious freedom which was the thought behind that muslim population may not be exercise their religion freely in India. And this from a self-proclaimed "leftist". You may think you are a "leftist", but you spout right-wing propaganda like its the kalma. A country carved out of its mother nation, in the name of religious supremacy - one that fails to provide "religious freedom" to anybody, is somehow justified because 'rEliGiOuS FrEeDoM' is not enough in India. The reality is muslims are more free to exercise their religion in India, than in Pakistan. And Pakistanis would have more freedom - religious or any other kind, if they were in India. You know this, but cannot accept this, hence the pathological need to peddle propaganda and false exaggeration about India and hindus. This schizophrenia is what is stopping Pakistanis from building a normal society and a modern nation-state. Until they cure themselves of it, they are doomed to be stuck, and vulnerable to being looted and abused by different flavors of mafia dictators. Edited May 11, 2021 by sandeep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Autonomous Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 2 hours ago, sandeep said: And this from a self-proclaimed "leftist". You may think you are a "leftist", but you spout right-wing propaganda like its the kalma. A country carved out of its mother nation, in the name of religious supremacy - one that fails to provide "religious freedom" to anybody, is somehow justified because 'rEliGiOuS FrEeDoM' is not enough in India. The reality is muslims are more free to exercise their religion in India, than in Pakistan. And Pakistanis would have more freedom - religious or any other kind, if they were in India. You know this, but cannot accept this, hence the pathological need to peddle propaganda and false exaggeration about India and hindus. This schizophrenia is what is stopping Pakistanis from building a normal society and a modern nation-state. Until they cure themselves of it, they are doomed to be stuck, and vulnerable to being looted and abused by different flavors of mafia dictators. Its not true. Fair to say, we have people opposing call for prayer in India, you cannot live together with differences. I know about myself well and truly - don't need opinion about myself from someone over an online forum with whom i've barely shared nothing but a few comments across some threads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandeep Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 1 hour ago, Autonomous said: Fair to say, we have people opposing call for prayer in India, you cannot live together with differences. Indians live with dozens of differences everyday, everywhere. From language, to ethnicity, to religion. The only 'difference' that Pakistan offers is the chance for a muslim majority to abuse and persecute 'others' - that opportunity does not exist in India for the most part. Not for lack of trying, I might add. 1 hour ago, Autonomous said: I know about myself well and truly - don't need opinion about myself from someone over an online forum with whom i've barely shared nothing but a few comments across some threads. When you declare yourself to be "leftist" while toeing bigoted propaganda lines, you are going to get called out on it - that's all. You are right - I don't know you, or claim to. And relative to what passes for 'left-wing' in India, you are still nowhere near that. Even discounting for the alternative reality that is Pakistan. A guy like Ammar Ali Jan for example, can claim to be leftist. Your views that you have shared on this forum, mark you as very far away from that sort of political perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G_B_ Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 Pakistan should ready itself for another bout of inflation...will be around 15% in a few months but might touch 20%. India too will have around 8% inflation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Autonomous Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 15 minutes ago, sandeep said: Indians live with dozens of differences everyday, everywhere. From language, to ethnicity, to religion. The only 'difference' that Pakistan offers is the chance for a muslim majority to abuse and persecute 'others' - that opportunity does not exist in India for the most part. Not for lack of trying, I might add. When you declare yourself to be "leftist" while toeing bigoted propaganda lines, you are going to get called out on it - that's all. You are right - I don't know you, or claim to. And relative to what passes for 'left-wing' in India, you are still nowhere near that. Even discounting for the alternative reality that is Pakistan. A guy like Ammar Ali Jan for example, can claim to be leftist. Your views that you have shared on this forum, mark you as very far away from that sort of political perspective. Thanks but no thanks. People migrated and by CHOICE because they did not want to be part of India. Therefore, the partition was and is in the best interests of both sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandeep Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 28 minutes ago, Autonomous said: Thanks but no thanks. People migrated and by CHOICE because they did not want to be part of India. Therefore, the partition was and is in the best interests of both sides. School-kid version of me used to think partition was 'bad' and weakened India. That thought is immature and childish. Partition of India most likely saved it from coming under military dictatorship in the cold war years via a coup. We can sit here and have a mature academic discussion about partition - a tragedy where millions died and lost their homes. And that's ok. But don't sit there and try to sell me the utter bullshit that the 2 nation theory that was used as the reason for partition has any sort of validity. It simply doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandeep Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 (edited) 32 minutes ago, Autonomous said: People migrated and by CHOICE because they did not want to be part of India. A big chunk of people migrated due to violence, another big chunk migrated in the 1950s and even later - simply because a lot of educated muslim folks recognized the fact that they would face much less competition for success in Pakistan than in India. And a massive chunk of muslims CHOSE not to migrate. And are still happy with that decision. These are also facts. you can choose to gloss over them, thats up to you. Edited May 11, 2021 by sandeep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Autonomous Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 22 minutes ago, sandeep said: A big chunk of people migrated due to violence, another big chunk migrated in the 1950s and even later - simply because a lot of educated muslim folks recognized the fact that they would face much less competition for success in Pakistan than in India. And a massive chunk of muslims CHOSE not to migrate. And are still happy with that decision. These are also facts. you can choose to gloss over them, thats up to you. Again, thanks but no thanks. Those who chose to migrate, had a different CHOICE and by any means it wasn't by any force. If I were to travel back time, I'd chose to migrate as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Autonomous Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 26 minutes ago, sandeep said: School-kid version of me used to think partition was 'bad' and weakened India. That thought is immature and childish. Partition of India most likely saved it from coming under military dictatorship in the cold war years via a coup. We can sit here and have a mature academic discussion about partition - a tragedy where millions died and lost their homes. And that's ok. But don't sit there and try to sell me the utter bullshit that the 2 nation theory that was used as the reason for partition has any sort of validity. It simply doesn't. If you think that is bullshit, go on and brag about it. But truth is, the people did not WANT to be with India. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandeep Posted May 12, 2021 Share Posted May 12, 2021 4 hours ago, Autonomous said: If you think that is bullshit, go on and brag about it. But truth is, the people did not WANT to be with India. who is disputing that "truth"? Point is, the motivation behind 'not wanting' to be 'with India' is an unsustainable one - and one that can only lead to secession and in-fighting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Autonomous Posted May 12, 2021 Share Posted May 12, 2021 5 hours ago, sandeep said: who is disputing that "truth"? Point is, the motivation behind 'not wanting' to be 'with India' is an unsustainable one - and one that can only lead to secession and in-fighting. Whatever the motivation, it is what it is and hence had to be done. It is the people's choice that matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravishingravi Posted May 12, 2021 Share Posted May 12, 2021 12 hours ago, G_B_ said: Pakistan should ready itself for another bout of inflation...will be around 15% in a few months but might touch 20%. India too will have around 8% inflation. Frankly inflation is least of the worries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandeep Posted May 12, 2021 Share Posted May 12, 2021 (edited) 6 hours ago, Autonomous said: Whatever the motivation, it is what it is and hence had to be done. It is the people's choice that matters. Tomorrow people could 'choose' to discriminate against jews, or muslims - would it be OK if its the "people's choice"? That logic is fundamentally flawed. That fundamentally flawed logic is the reason why Pakistani society finds itself burning with "khatm naboovat" (sorry for spelling - not intentional, just not sure what it is) etc - because the 'people' chose to create a country based on silly notions of religion instead of geography and culture. As a Middle-Eastern President said it in the 1950s, Pakistanis seem to think that Islam only exists after creation of Pakistan, when it has been around for hundreds of years. Edited May 12, 2021 by sandeep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Autonomous Posted May 12, 2021 Share Posted May 12, 2021 3 hours ago, sandeep said: Tomorrow people could 'choose' to discriminate against jews, or muslims - would it be OK if its the "people's choice"? That logic is fundamentally flawed. That fundamentally flawed logic is the reason why Pakistani society finds itself burning with "khatm naboovat" (sorry for spelling - not intentional, just not sure what it is) etc - because the 'people' chose to create a country based on silly notions of religion instead of geography and culture. As a Middle-Eastern President said it in the 1950s, Pakistanis seem to think that Islam only exists after creation of Pakistan, when it has been around for hundreds of years. People's choice was to migrate and have a separate country. I told you so, if i'd be given a choice by travelling back time to migrate, i'd do the same. You can brag about your algebra as I said, but none of us wanted to live with you guys. Whatever was done, it was for good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted May 13, 2021 Author Share Posted May 13, 2021 7 hours ago, Autonomous said: People's choice was to migrate and have a separate country. I told you so, if i'd be given a choice by travelling back time to migrate, i'd do the same. You can brag about your algebra as I said, but none of us wanted to live with you guys. Whatever was done, it was for good. Do you know how many people lost lives and livelihood, because of your whims and fancies of not living next to people who don’t eat or worship like you? You guys still don’t like to live next to what is left of the rest and that is why you abduct minor girls rape and convert them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Autonomous Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 1 hour ago, coffee_rules said: Do you know how many people lost lives and livelihood, because of your whims and fancies of not living next to people who don’t eat or worship like you? You guys still don’t like to live next to what is left of the rest and that is why you abduct minor girls rape and convert them You are talking as if crimes have been eradicated from India. Obsession with Pakistan is insane specially with right wing indians here. Suck it up, partition was a blessing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 Pure evil coffee_rules and mishra 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnterTheVoid Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 12 hours ago, Autonomous said: Suck it up, partition was a blessing. For India, absolutely. Can't be thankful enough. coffee_rules, mishra and sandeep 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted May 13, 2021 Author Share Posted May 13, 2021 12 hours ago, Autonomous said: You are talking as if crimes have been eradicated from India. Obsession with Pakistan is insane specially with right wing indians here. Suck it up, partition was a blessing. We thank Jinnah daily for partition. It’s just that crime of religious conversion rape of minor girls os your ilk’s specialty Gollum, EnterTheVoid and mishra 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mishra Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 11 hours ago, Autonomous said: You are talking as if crimes have been eradicated from India. Obsession with Pakistan is insane specially with right wing indians here. Suck it up, partition was a blessing. Actually non Muslims are being eradicated from Pakistan. Questioning is not obsession. All Islamic nation building has stages. Stage 1: When minority, call everyone right wing who call for reform of Islam. This is done by educated inteligentia of theirs Stage 2: Constant breeding and rioting brings them in majority. In this stage till ration hasnt reached 90:10, rioting, rapes and rampant mass conversion and other things happens with support of State (autocracy, be it army leader or monarch). They also start holinisation of the Muslim population itself. ie, Some sects are called as not proper Muslims. But at this stage, they still maintain that they have a democracy. Stage 3: They become 100% or near about that. At this point, either nation is to be ruled by a monarch or army. As long as world/west is getting something valuable from those nations, they support govmnt and keep the peace.However if West has little or lost interest, Country turns in Yemen, Afghanistan, lebnon, Syria and so on where brand of Islam is implemented or they get colonised (Colonistation happens either by US/UK/EU/Russia/China and then colonial powers support these sects) In my opinion, Pakistan is currently near the end life of stage 2. China is trying to colonise it. Once west realises that China will colonise it, West will bring fire. Wait for 2030 Laaloo and coffee_rules 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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