All Rounders Do Not Exist Part - II

[Khota]

6 minutes ago, Serpico said:

any reason why you believe this? A cricketer plays 2 months per year in IPL, how can his ipl performances be the standard to judge him? Especially when foreign players like stokes may not even play the full season. Maybe you should edit the title to "All rounders do not exist in IPL"

 

The number of variables involved in IPL are lot less which leads to better stats. Everyone faces about the same attack and same conditions leading to more controlled outcome.

 

In tests etc. you are playing different bowlers under different conditions which leads to more variables.

 

In brief if cricket does not assign weight to a bowler then all runs scored are not meaningful.

 

A 4 scored against Bumrah should not count the same as a 4 score against Hardik.

 

 

[Serpico]

24 minutes ago, Khota said:

 

The number of variables involved in IPL are lot less which leads to better stats. Everyone faces about the same attack and same conditions leading to more controlled outcome.

In tests etc. you are playing different bowlers under different conditions which leads to more variables.

So if similar observation can be made based on BPL, we can conclude that Wrist spinners does not exist? And based on LPL, fast bowlers do not exist? 

 

Maybe your logic can be used when ipl becomes an all year event like the baseball league. Right now, international cricket is where all the elite players play majority of their game, so using a qualifier in your statement ".. in IPL" would be more appropriate.

 

24 minutes ago, Khota said:

In brief if cricket does not assign weight to a bowler then all runs scored are not meaningful.

A 4 scored against Bumrah should not count the same as a 4 score against Hardik

This problem is inherent to cricket, taking ipl as gold standard still wouldn't solve this issue. Cricket by design is a collection of individual 1 v 1 matchups that are counted together in a team. Whether its test cricket or ranji or ipl, this fundamental formula doesn't change. 

 

In fact, taking ipl as gold standard exaggerates this issue because each bowler and batsmen face each very few balls, we can't arrive at any meaningful conclusion. For example, rabada bowled just 13 balls to rohit sharma across three seasons. How can you conclude anything about their talent vs each other using only ipl? 

Edited November 21, 2020 by Serpico

[Ankit_sharma03]

40 minutes ago, Khota said:

That is called an outlier/anamoly/exception/oddity.

 

and 

• sobers
• botham
• Imran
• Kapil
• holder
• shakib
• flintoff
• watson
• hadlee

[Adamant]

After reading the headline of the thread 

I was thinking you will deep dive into the performance of allrounders and show us some unbelievable stats and  dazzle us. 

Instead you gave us that Ben Stokes performance logic 

 

Is there some point which i am missing or is this thread really stupid. 

Allrounders provide much needed balance to the team and yes sometimes even a bits and pieces allrounder is better than a fully fledged batsman for the balance of the team.. 

 

 

As for Hardik Pandya, i totally get wgere you are coming from, he hasn't performed in international cricket at the level that he is supposed to but we need to be patient. Also all those comparisons with Kapil dev are ridiculous to say the least. 

 

[Ankit_sharma03]

1 hour ago, Khota said:

Do it on consistent basis and then come back.

 

pandya has done consistently for 3 yrs for Mumbai , cudnt bowl due to recovery this yr or else 15+ wkts was guarnteed this yr to 

ever heard of Andre russell doing it consistently for yrs in IPL

Edited November 21, 2020 by Ankit_sharma03

[Ankit_sharma03]

1 hour ago, Khota said:

In a poor team devoid of good bowlers I may get few wkts too.

 

India or NZ werent great sides back then by that logic even hadlee n Kapil perfomances shud be looked down upon. Top sides were WI, Pak, Aus then 

Remeber bhajji taking 32 wkts, that shud be looked down upon coz others bowlers were absolutely useless

[Khota]

26 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

 

and 

• sobers
• botham
• Imran
• Kapil
• holder
• shakib
• flintoff
• watson
• hadlee

No one proves my point better than you. Thanks for not putting Pandya/Shankar name there.

 

In 100 years of Indian cricket you have only one player to show for and that is Kapil. Q.E.D. they do not exist.

[Ankit_sharma03]

Just now, Khota said:

No one proves my point better than you. Thanks for not putting Pandya/Shankar name there.

 

why wud i put their names as they are relatively young in there career

 

Just now, Khota said:

 

In 100 years of Indian cricket you have only one player to show for and that is Kapil. Q.E.D. they do not exist.

 

matalb dusra paida nahin hoga ?

[Ankit_sharma03]

1 minute ago, Khota said:

 

In 100 years of Indian cricket you have only one player to show for and that is Kapil. Q.E.D. they do not exist.

yet pandya avg is quite ahead of Kapil in ODI 

[Khota]

21 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

 

why wud i put their names as they are relatively young in there career

 

 

matalb dusra paida nahin hoga ?

Had 5 years and nothing to show for. I feel sorry for you.

[Khota]

15 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

yet pandya avg is quite ahead of Kapil in ODI 

So he is better than Kapil?? Kapil could bowl. I am not so sure about pandya.

[Khota]

25 minutes ago, Adamant said:

After reading the headline of the thread 

I was thinking you will deep dive into the performance of allrounders and show us some unbelievable stats and  dazzle us. 

Instead you gave us that Ben Stokes performance logic 

 

Is there some point which i am missing or is this thread really stupid. 

Allrounders provide much needed balance to the team and yes sometimes even a bits and pieces allrounder is better than a fully fledged batsman for the balance of the team.. 

 

 

As for Hardik Pandya, i totally get wgere you are coming from, he hasn't performed in international cricket at the level that he is supposed to but we need to be patient. Also all those comparisons with Kapil dev are ridiculous to say the least. 

 

I wish I could. My knowledge of Analytics is limited but one day I might be able to do that. Just dont have the time.

 

What you call much needed balance is called by others as Jack of All Trades and master of None.

[Ankit_sharma03]

11 minutes ago, Khota said:

So he is better than Kapil?? Kapil could bowl. I am not so sure about pandya.

 

pandya cud bowl

kapil test bowling avg 29

hardik 31

 

so yea he can bowl 

[Ankit_sharma03]

13 minutes ago, Khota said:

Had 5 years and nothing to show for. I feel sorry for you.

 

weak hai maths , its been 4 yrs out of which 1,5 has gone in injury n add covid now

5 full yrs in that even rohit, zak, yuvraj didnt have much to show 

[Serpico]

13 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

 

pandya cud bowl

kapil test bowling avg 29

hardik 31

 

so yea he can bowl 

you have to take into account how many overs kapil/pandya bowl in the matches they played before comparing averages. Kapil was our primary wicket taking option and had to bowl in every match and innings. hardik is 3rd change bowler who only bowls in swinging conditions and to give break to other bowlers

 

Anyways pandya is not competing with kapil for his place in the team. he don't have to be equal to or better than kapil to get into test team, he should just be able to bowl 10-12 overs and be better than vijay shankar/shardul thakur to get into our team in england and SA tour

[Ankit_sharma03]

1 minute ago, Serpico said:

you have to take into account how many overs kapil/pandya bowl in the matches they played before comparing averages. Kapil was our primary wicket taking option and had to bowl in every match and innings. hardik is 3rd change bowler who only bowls in swinging conditions and to give break to other bowlers

 

Anyways pandya is not competing with kapil for his place in the team. he don't have to be equal to or better than kapil to get into test team, he should just be able to bowl 10-12 overs and be better than vijay shankar/shardul thakur to get into our team in england and SA tour

 

but to always dismiss someone taking legend name is foolish when no one becomes a legend in 3-4yrs and if someone wants to go down that road well numbers arent bad if anything that shud say he is goo enough

A fit hardik can give u 10-15 overs every day in test 

[Khota]

3 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

 

weak hai maths , its been 4 yrs out of which 1,5 has gone in injury n add covid now

5 full yrs in that even rohit, zak, yuvraj didnt have much to show 

My dog ate my homework.

[Khota]

3 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

 

pandya cud bowl

kapil test bowling avg 29

hardik 31

 

so yea he can bowl 

Kapil Dev was a strike bowler. Pandya is a bottom feeder. How many overs did he bowl in IPL???

[Ankit_sharma03]

2 minutes ago, Khota said:

My dog ate my homework.

 

i knew it 

[Khota]

3 hours ago, Serpico said:

you have to take into account how many overs kapil/pandya bowl in the matches they played before comparing averages. Kapil was our primary wicket taking option and had to bowl in every match and innings. hardik is 3rd change bowler who only bowls in swinging conditions and to give break to other bowlers

 

Anyways pandya is not competing with kapil for his place in the team. he don't have to be equal to or better than kapil to get into test team, he should just be able to bowl 10-12 overs and be better than vijay shankar/shardul thakur to get into our team in england and SA tour

When KApil was playing there was no option. There are a dozen bowlers better than Pandya. Atleast a dozen.