'Delhi Chalo' movement/farmers protest

[randomGuy]

Just some info on Punjab demographics:

58% sikh 38% hindu

25% of overall population are jat Sikhs who own 90% of the state's land.

Akali dal get the votes of jat Sikhs.

I think bjp will get non-jat votes in future. Akali dal left NDA recently.

 

 

 

 

[coffee_rules]

1 hour ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

 

If you have time, watch Devinder Sharma's interview above.  There is also another entire thread about this issue on this forum.  

 

The main issue is that they are seeking guaranteed, legalized MSP procurement for staples like wheat and rice grown in N/NW India.  This is why the protests are restricted to those farmers.  Second, the fear of unregulated corporate influence is legitimate - abolishing APMC should not transfer power from one set of dalals to another. 

 

To me, the main issue is that there is not a one-size-fits-all solution.  Most farmers outside of P/H will likely benefit from the new laws.  But as with everything, there are trade-offs.  And P/H farmers may be the losers in this trade-off.  Considering how much we depend on them for staples, they must be listened to with apolitical ears.     

 

If you have time , read through this thread. The Act doesn't abolish the APMC/mandi system where MSP is still in place. As DS says in that GlenLivet sponsored show you shared,  P/H farmers are worried that they were getting 56000 crores every year for wheat and paddy through MSP will drain out because of competition where there will be two markets now. The corruption in APMC/MSP bureaucracy will go away. Why do you want MSP to be enforced on all crops and for all buyers.  Let it be in APMCs as proposed. It is not going away. Depending on the market price, the farmers are now able to sell to anybody in any area with in the state. Earlier, they had to go to specific distant mandis and involving transport etc. These agitators are worried that there will be competition to their sarkari middlemen who were leaching on farmers. These P/H farmers are the front, the sarkari sifarished middlemen working on the APMC/MSP mafia is the backing behind farmers on the street.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 1, 2020 by coffee_rules

[mishra]

As soon as Yogendra Yadav came on tv, I got a feeling that some lie is being peddled. Apparently MSP will be adhered to and around 25 types of crops are included. Room for adding more.

 

And there is specific clause which bars corporates/businesses to buy/lease land from farmers. They can only buy the produce.

 

Just reminds me that CAA lie peddling that caused stir/riots loss of lives in Delhi and Some Chewt leaders of west openly exposed themselves as being anti Indians

Edited December 1, 2020 by mishra

[coffee_rules]

Khalistani politicians of Kaneda are funding these farmer protests. Any outside influence voicing concerns should not be supported. We should support BJP to hold talks with farmers, but not legitimize any road blocking support which is sinisterly funded by Breaking India forces.

 

 

 

 

The same news sold as propaganda by left rags.. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Singh bling]

2 hours ago, asterix said:

Also it’s evident that Minorities like Sikhs absolutely hate Hindus, BJP, Modi etc. Looks like all the historical atrocities done by Congress has been blamed on Hindus, BJP & RSS

Sikhs don't hate Hindu's but they are not comfortable table with right wing Hindutva.  Hindu's are also not comfortable with right wing Sikhism . They too prefer Congress over SAD-BJP Alliance several times.

[mishra]

^ If those Governments and leaders are so worried they should pass a bill in Canada that they will buy the produce from those farmers at MSP.   Oh wait, there local farmers want to sell  their produce in Indian Market at even economical rate.

[BacktoCricaddict]

27 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

 

If you have time , read through this thread. The Act doesn't abolish the APMC/mandi system where MSP is still in place. As DS says in that GlenLivet sponsored show you shared,  P/H farmers are worried that they were getting 56000 crores every year for wheat and paddy through MSP will drain out because of competition where there will be two markets now. The corruption in APMC/MSP bureaucracy will go away. Why do you want MSP to be enforced on all crops and for all buyers.  Let it be in APMCs as proposed. It is not going away. Depending on the market price, the farmers are now able to sell to anybody in any area with in the state. Earlier, they had to go to specific distant mandis and involving transport etc. These agitators are worried that there will be competition to their sarkari middlemen who were leaching on farmers. These P/H farmers are the front, the sarkari sifarished middlemen working on the APMC/MSP mafia is the backing behind farmers on the street.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I used to think that MSP is not going away, either.  I have even posted as such in the other ag thread.  But what they want is a legal assurance that it will not go away.  So far, it has only been verbal assurances.  At least that is my understanding.  

 

I read Desi Dark's thread a day or two ago and was very much impressed.  On balance, these new bills are a net positive - by miles!  But there are still some gaps that must still be filled, and not to be ignored.  Did you listen to Devinder Sharma?  He makes some excellent points.  

[LordPrabhzy]

5 minutes ago, Singh bling said:

Sikhs don't hate Hindu's but they are not comfortable table with right wing Hindutva.  Hindu's are also not comfortable with right wing Sikhism . They too prefer Congress over SAD-BJP Alliance several times.

What is right with hindutva got to do with agriculture policy? A law and reform applies to all equally. Bit rich coming from western Sikhs who want to portray India as a Hindu facist state but are ready to support a militant who Threatened to kill 5000 Hindus a day in Punjab standing in the Harmindar Sahab. So let’s not make any bones of where people’s loyalties lie.

 

it’s the khalistanis who have infiltrated the protests making this into a Sikh vs India issue. The same way Sikhs in the west have jumped into the bandwagon of oh look our Sikh farmers are being attacked. Where was the Sikh compassion for farmers when some were committing suicide in India in other states( apart from Punjab)? 
 

the ironic thing is just to spite the BJP Government some Sikhs are ready to get into bed with  Congress and Pakistan. But conveniently forget what Congress did to them in 1984 and what Pakistan is still doing to minority Sikhs in their lands. But but but it’s the Hindus/ RSS who hate Sikhs 

 

im a punjabi Hindu and I have always considered Sikhs my blood brothers , but the way things are going even my patience is waring thin.

[coffee_rules]

4 minutes ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

I used to think that MSP is not going away, either.  I have even posted as such in the other ag thread.  But what they want is a legal assurance that it will not go away.  So far, it has only been verbal assurances.  At least that is my understanding.  

 

 

4 minutes ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

 

I read Desi Dark's thread a day or two ago and was very much impressed.  On balance, these new bills are a net positive - by miles!  But there are still some gaps that must still be filled, and not to be ignored.  Did you listen to Devinder Sharma?  He makes some excellent points.  

 

Yes, I did see the show (mentioned the GlenLivet sponsored show where DS was interviewed).  

MSP / APMC is still going to be around. MSP was never a law, it was an administrative policy of APMC. It used to go up and down based on political pressure.

Why should it be made as a law? The admin policy is going to continue. Why do they need a legal assurance of the MSP. It is not there now. Also, his quoted that MSP gets 56000 crores to P&H, and they are concerned there will be two markets now - 1 APMC / MSP and one where everybody can go anywhere.  Even now APMC is not enforced, but these bills have removed some restrictions present , as they had to sell only in certain geographical area where they produce, to sell.

it it outside of APMC. Also, some of the data comparing it with USA is suspect. He claimed Rural suicides are higher in USA. But they are not specific to farmers, but it is higher because of the higher drug addicts/meth users in USA in rural areas. 

 

I am not happy with the contract farming restictions removed. There is some concern there as farmers can get forced to grow only certain crops that the corporations choose. These bills also proposes producer associations to go enmasse to negotiate with corporations instead of single producers. It doesn't mean this is more efficient. The farmers' subsidies comparisions with corporates is not just India specific problems. Every where big industries benefit from subsidies/tax breaks, is done hoping they will invest more back into industry with the additional profits. 

 

As I see it, I think big farmers are at loss because of these bills and it benefits most of them. Not sold on the fact that it is a P&H issue only. Politically P&H farmers have more backing than rest of the country. 

[velu]

i lost credibility of these kind of protests even there is a possibility that some of the protests are genuine   

[coffee_rules]

 

 

[asterix]

56 minutes ago, Singh bling said:

Sikhs don't hate Hindu's but they are not comfortable table with right wing Hindutva.  Hindu's are also not comfortable with right wing Sikhism . They too prefer Congress over SAD-BJP Alliance several times.

I’m not aware of a single event in which RW Hindus have targeted any Sikh community anywhere in India. There is no animosity of any RW Hindu against any Sikhs. Being nationalist they do not like Khalistanis or the idea of Khalistan. 
 

Regarding Khalistan, the only thing RW Hindus ask the Khalistanis what will be the capital of That new country? Will it be the original capital Lahore? If not, why? If yes, what have they done to declare Lahore as capital of Khalistan?

 

I feel amazed the amount of hate Modi is getting from all the Sikhs. What harm has he done to them? Yes, they’d to protest in Punjab for 3-4 months. Has he attacked Sikhs? Has he sent army to kill them like Congress PMs have done in past? Has he instigated riots against Sikhs? Why Sikhs hates him if he targets Pakistan? 

Edited December 1, 2020 by asterix

[coffee_rules]

43 minutes ago, Singh bling said:

Sikhs don't hate Hindu's but they are not comfortable table with right wing Hindutva.  Hindu's are also not comfortable with right wing Sikhism . They too prefer Congress over SAD-BJP Alliance several times.

 

 

 

[coffee_rules]

6 minutes ago, asterix said:

I’m not aware of a single event in which RW Hindus have targeted any Sikh community anywhere in India. There us no animosity of any RW Hindu against any Sikhs. Being nationalist they do not like Khalistanis or the idea of Khalistan. 
 

Regarding Khalistan, the only thing RW Hindus ask the Khalistanis what will be the capital of Thant new country? Will it be the original capital Lahore? If not, why? If yes, what have they done to declare Lahore as capital of Khalistan?

 

I feel amazed the amount of hate Modi is getting from all the Sikhs. What harm has he done to them? Yes, they’d to protest in Punjab for 3-4 months. Has he attacked Sikhs? Has he sent army to kill them like Congress PMs have done in past? Has he instigated riots against Sikhs? Why Sikhs hates him if he targets Pakistan? 

 

The hate is mainly coming from Badals. There is a lot of hate against Badals who were associated with NDA till recently. It is mostly political. But the funny or shameful for these trolls is they have gone back to Congress who were the reason for attack on Golden Temple and 1984 Anti-Sikh riots. 

 

 

 

[asterix]

6 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

 

 

 

No matter how much they try, but you can clearly see an inherent hate towards Hindus. They’ll rather like a Congress rule which has historically killed thousands of Sikhs...

 

Farm laws are just an excuse. All these are hatred towards Hindus and Modi Govt.

[mishra]

35 minutes ago, asterix said:

I’m not aware of a single event in which RW Hindus have targeted any Sikh community anywhere in India. There is no animosity of any RW Hindu against any Sikhs. Being nationalist they do not like Khalistanis or the idea of Khalistan. 
 

Regarding Khalistan, the only thing RW Hindus ask the Khalistanis what will be the capital of That new country? Will it be the original capital Lahore? If not, why? If yes, what have they done to declare Lahore as capital of Khalistan?

 

I feel amazed the amount of hate Modi is getting from all the Sikhs. What harm has he done to them? Yes, they’d to protest in Punjab for 3-4 months. Has he attacked Sikhs? Has he sent army to kill them like Congress PMs have done in past? Has he instigated riots against Sikhs? Why Sikhs hates him if he targets Pakistan? 

Absolutely. I have told UK Sikhs in argurment, If you can get Lahore as Capital of  Khalistan, i will assume your demand for separate Sikh state is genuine and will support Khalistan. 

[LordPrabhzy]

22 minutes ago, mishra said:

Absolutely. I have told UK Sikhs in argurment, If you can get Lahore as Capital of  Khalistan, i will assume your demand for separate Sikh state is genuine and will support Khalistan. 

Lol its a bit hard to demand a massive chunk of land from the very country who is funding you to rebel against India.. to spite India they are ready to let go the claim of the Punjab in Pakistan.

[BacktoCricaddict]

1 hour ago, coffee_rules said:

 

 

 

Yes, I did see the show (mentioned the GlenLivet sponsored show where DS was interviewed).  

MSP / APMC is still going to be around. MSP was never a law, it was an administrative policy of APMC. It used to go up and down based on political pressure.

Why should it be made as a law? The admin policy is going to continue. Why do they need a legal assurance of the MSP. It is not there now. Also, his quoted that MSP gets 56000 crores to P&H, and they are concerned there will be two markets now - 1 APMC / MSP and one where everybody can go anywhere.  Even now APMC is not enforced, but these bills have removed some restrictions present , as they had to sell only in certain geographical area where they produce, to sell.

it it outside of APMC. Also, some of the data comparing it with USA is suspect. He claimed Rural suicides are higher in USA. But they are not specific to farmers, but it is higher because of the higher drug addicts/meth users in USA in rural areas. 

 

I am not happy with the contract farming restictions removed. There is some concern there as farmers can get forced to grow only certain crops that the corporations choose. These bills also proposes producer associations to go enmasse to negotiate with corporations instead of single producers. It doesn't mean this is more efficient. The farmers' subsidies comparisions with corporates is not just India specific problems. Every where big industries benefit from subsidies/tax breaks, is done hoping they will invest more back into industry with the additional profits. 

 

As I see it, I think big farmers are at loss because of these bills and it benefits most of them. Not sold on the fact that it is a P&H issue only. Politically P&H farmers have more backing than rest of the country. 

Yeah, the US suicide data was bunk. 

 

As for MSP, I realize it is not currently the law (and again, said as much in the previous thread).  Why not make it so, but with restrictions on how much it can accrue over time?  I am just not seeing this as a Hindu-Sikh problem.  

 

 

[speedheat]

Farmers' Protest Live Updates: Farmers intensify agitation, police close crucial Delhi-Noida link road

 

 

 

Farmers' protest news: All eyes are on December 3 talks between the Centre and agitating farmer unions after the dialogue failed to end the standoff over the new farm laws on Tuesday. The 35 farmer leaders held a three-hour meeting with the ministerial delegation but the farmer unions rejected the government’s offer to set up a committee to look into issues raised by them and said they will intensify their stir until their demands are met. Thousands of farmers, meanwhile, have assembled at Delhi's borders in Singhu, Tikri and Gazipur to take part in protests against the new farm laws. As more farmers joined the protest at the borders of Delhi-NCR, security has been tightened. For the latest on farm protests, stay tuned to IndiaToday.in.

 

source: Godi media

[Singh bling]

23 hours ago, asterix said:

I’m not aware of a single event in which RW Hindus have targeted any Sikh community anywhere in India. There is no animosity of any RW Hindu against any Sikhs. Being nationalist they do not like Khalistanis or the idea of Khalistan. 
 

Regarding Khalistan, the only thing RW Hindus ask the Khalistanis what will be the capital of That new country? Will it be the original capital Lahore? If not, why? If yes, what have they done to declare Lahore as capital of Khalistan

You should read history of Punjab and Hindu sikh conflict which started in 1870s when Arya samaj arrived in Punjab . Since then Relationship between two communities is sour. The bitterness increased more after partition during punjabi suba movement which was opposed by most hindu's

 

Anti Hindu and Anti Sikh slogans had been shouted by RW Sikhs and RW hindu's in Punjab.I am not saying RW sikhs are right or RW Hindu's are right but Sikhs being anti Modi is coming from history and politics in Punjab between two communities.

 

 

Edited December 2, 2020 by Singh bling