Rishabh Pant wicketkeeping watch thread

[rollingstoned]

i don't mind if we have decided we are going to persist with him but it may be a painful process in the short term to let him learn on the job. especially in the subcontinent where his keeping will be severely tested. it's another thing that he doesn't have the right body shape for a wk, especially a subcontinental one and his batting isn't reliable enough to sacrifice 1 player in the MO to play him there.

[bowl_out]

In both drop catches, Pant tried to grab at it with open hands.. Looks like a poor catching technique.. Shouldn't the fielding coach notice these things and course correct?

 

 

Edited January 7, 2021 by bowl_out

[Tibarn]

A lot of good stats are in this article about Pant's keeping

https://www.cricviz.com/rishabh-pants-keeping

For those who don't want to read the article, it basically says he: is a poor keeper, particularly against spin bowling, but he is good batsman, so it is a tough choice to play him or Saha and will depend on team combinations. 

 

His keeping is a net negative in terms of runs

He catches only 47% of his opportunities vs spinners. Dhoni caught 66%, Saha catches 78%

However, he is a very good wicketkeeper-batsman

 

Edited January 7, 2021 by Tibarn

[BacktoCricaddict]

Intere

28 minutes ago, Tibarn said:

A lot of good stats are in this article about Pant's keeping

https://www.cricviz.com/rishabh-pants-keeping

For those who don't want to read the article, it basically says he: is a poor keeper, particularly against spin bowling, but he is good batsman, so it is a tough choice to play him or Saha and will depend on team combinations. 

 

His keeping is a net negative in terms of runs

He catches only 47% of his opportunities vs spinners. Dhoni caught 66%, Saha catches 78%

However, he is a very good wicketkeeper-batsman

 

Interesting, but how do they calculate the run cost of dropped catches?  Is it just the number of the runs that the beneficiary went on to make after the catch was dropped?  That seems flawed as that could depend on the quality of the other fielders around, the venue etc.  For example, if Pant dropped Pucovski in Sydney on a flat track and Saha dropped Pucovski in Chennai on a square turner, it is more likely that Pant's drop would be costlier because Pucovski is more likely to thrive in Sydney.  But a drop is a drop is a drop and should be counted equally.

 

Now, the overall catch percentage is a better metric and he is not doing well in that department.  Certainly cause for concern.  

 

 

Edited January 7, 2021 by BacktoCricaddict

[sage]

11 hours ago, Serpico said:

For all the hype Saha's keeping gets in comparison with Pant, his catching success % is only 2% higher than Pant.

 

He isn't exactly best pure keeper in the world, at least in last 2-3 yrs, no matter how many times Harsha Bhogle repeats it as a fact

 

 

Wow, England fans I know complain about Buttlers keeping and prefer Foster 

[Hojoborolo]

52 minutes ago, sage said:

Wow, England fans I know complain about Buttlers keeping and prefer Foster 

Foster retired a while back, I think, and has already started coaching (though am hoping he turns up at Major League so we can enjoy his feats one last time ...)

Foster's current successor is Ben Foakes (who incidentally played on the county circuit for Middlesex, despite being from Essex, because Foster was No. 1 at Essex). In between, there was Michael Bates who won Hampshire a national T20 (it was probably Friends Provident back then) trophy with his keeping alone -- stood up to the stumps under ridiculous circumstances, and thereby converted their dibbly-dobbly military medium trundlers into reincarnations of Derek Underwood on steroids).

 

England always ends up with a couple of ridiculously good keepers on the county circuit, because often teams at the level just below county (i.e., ECB intra-county premier leagues) play on damp, *very* green pitches where medium pacers around 110-120 kmph are quite a handful, provided they are accurate, and the keeper stands up to the stumps. In fact, James Foster's keeping standing up to genuine medium pacers is one of the highlights of 21st century sport to me.

[Hojoborolo]

2 hours ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

Intere

Interesting, but how do they calculate the run cost of dropped catches?  Is it just the number of the runs that the beneficiary went on to make after the catch was dropped?  That seems flawed as that could depend on the quality of the other fielders around, the venue etc.  For example, if Pant dropped Pucovski in Sydney on a flat track and Saha dropped Pucovski in Chennai on a square turner, it is more likely that Pant's drop would be costlier because Pucovski is more likely to thrive in Sydney.  But a drop is a drop is a drop and should be counted equally.

 

Now, the overall catch percentage is a better metric and he is not doing well in that department.  Certainly cause for concern.  

 

 

(emphasis mine) Not really, typically chances on hard tracks are proportionally harder. The same things that make it hard to bat, make it hard to keep - misbehaving after pitching or in the air. So quite often, it can be a sort of a fair indicator. There is a different issue, which is much harder to account for, and that is the difficulty rating of a chance. It would need judgement and discretion on the viewer's part to assess it correctly. Any good fielder will put team first, and their own statistics second. So a very good keeper will make nearly impossible chances appear like a half-chance, and it will count against his catching statistics. The sh** keeper who somehow hangs on to regulation chances but gets nowhere near half-chances (hence they might not be counted as chances at all) might end up with better personal statistics, like Kamran Akmal managed to have decent catching statistics at some point (and even had some "most catches in a match/series/...", you get the idea, some Rishabh Pant-type record).

 

So judging wicket-keeping skill is hard, and requires actual work (rather than running some scripts on a database). This means selection of wicket-keepers at all levels is half-arsed and a bit of an afterthought, and good keepers are often created in spite of, rather than because of, the "system".

[Tibarn]

2 hours ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

Intere

Interesting, but how do they calculate the run cost of dropped catches?  Is it just the number of the runs that the beneficiary went on to make after the catch was dropped?  That seems flawed as that could depend on the quality of the other fielders around, the venue etc.  For example, if Pant dropped Pucovski in Sydney on a flat track and Saha dropped Pucovski in Chennai on a square turner, it is more likely that Pant's drop would be costlier because Pucovski is more likely to thrive in Sydney.  But a drop is a drop is a drop and should be counted equally.

 

They didn't mention exactly how they calculated it. I would imagine that such a metric has to also include byes given up by the keeper. 

 

Their stats are based off of ball-by-ball data and ball-tracking. However, I don't think they adjusted the data depending on conditions/pitch for this stat. This group only has pitch-based analysis for matches in two countries(that I know of): England and Australia, so this one is likely primarily from ball-by-ball data and ball-tracking.     

[Rasgulla]

@Laaloo Calling out first rat of pant hype gang! 

[helperononline]

Saha is old and pant is not good keeper

 

Why Ishan kishan is never give a opportunity

[kaptaan]

On 1/7/2021 at 5:15 PM, Rasgulla said:

 pant hype boys show up before I name and shame you in this thread you dirty rats

Dhoni chamchas should take a chill pill. We lost 2019 WC because of thailam https://twitter.com/i/status/1347076819288170498

 

[kaptaan]

Just now, kaptaan said:

Dhoni chamchas should take a chill pill. We lost 2019 WC because of thailam https://twitter.com/i/status/1347076819288170498

 

 

[Yoda-esque]

Ishaan kishan should be considered

[dilliboy]

48 minutes ago, Yoda-esque said:

Ishaan kishan should be considered

Has he ever kept at first class level? 

[BacktoCricaddict]

18 hours ago, Tibarn said:

They didn't mention exactly how they calculated it. I would imagine that such a metric has to also include byes given up by the keeper. 

 

Their stats are based off of ball-by-ball data and ball-tracking. However, I don't think they adjusted the data depending on conditions/pitch for this stat. This group only has pitch-based analysis for matches in two countries(that I know of): England and Australia, so this one is likely primarily from ball-by-ball data and ball-tracking.     

With a large enough sample size, these things will even out, but that will take a decade ... and teams don't have a decade to make decisions!

[Vk1]

if Pant can bat this way after dropping two catches, how will he bat once becomes a better keeper? 

[kaptaan]

8 hours ago, Rasgulla said:

Didn't  choker sachin choke in all WCs  if it wasn't for this that midget would have walked out with 0 world cups

 

Sachin worships Dhoni everyday 



 

 

 

 

 

[kaptaan]

https://youtu.be/asP7XZUPqOA

 

 

This is what Dhoni chamchas deserve 

[Rasgulla]

9 minutes ago, kaptaan said:



 

 

 

 

 

 Learn the definition of Knockout first !

 

Ailiaaa chokes is way too big to fit into 1 pic 

[Frustrated]

Fortunately or Unfortunately, pant's wicket keeping won't be watched for a long long time.