Discussion on Farmers issues in India

[bharathh]

1 hour ago, LordPrabhzy said:

 

Do you know why that is? Even on the day of demonetisation, bank managers were giving the new cash out to criminals.

 

The point is as a society and a country, there is some sort of criminality DNA in us to have jugads to do illegal things and that invariably leads to negative outcomes even in the most positive initiatives. In a perfect eutopia, people would have taken the steps on board and immediately moved to a cashless process. MANY businesses did and still do but there is a significant minority of people spread across the country who cannot change their psyche of corruption and wanting to live in a 3rd world shithole as long as they are rich and the others can go to hell

 

Counterfeit money cannot be prevented forever. It is not like the new designs cannot be counterfeited at some point. Expecting that not to happen is stupid. However, this move did break the existing counterfeiters' operations for a long time. Now the withdrawal of 2k notes is a big blow. If the govt can keep 10 yr old money in circulation - making sure older notes are invalidated - it will go a big way to reduce the effect of counterfeiting. 

 

That said, even with the cooperation of bank managers and the cops, there were many that lost huge amounts of black money. Personally know many that lost crores. They did salvage a few crores but most of the money was worthless as the bank managers could only launder a small proportion of money. Not everyone had the contacts and power to launder their money as well. There were so many reports in those days of bonfires fuelled by invalidated notes.

[bharathh]

If by RBI Governor you are talking about Raghuram Rajan - he wasn't the RBI Governor of the time. Raghuram Rajan is allied to his previous masters - Congress and would fall in line with that party's agenda. If you are talking about Urjit Patel who was the Governor - I haven't heard any such comments from him. 

 

Short term losses due to the wrecking of the informal economy should be welcome. It was poison to the economy in the long term.

[Khota]

2 hours ago, LordPrabhzy said:

 

Do you know why that is? Even on the day of demonetisation, bank managers were giving the new cash out to criminals.

 

The point is as a society and a country, there is some sort of criminality DNA in us to have jugads to do illegal things and that invariably leads to negative outcomes even in the most positive initiatives. In a perfect eutopia, people would have taken the steps on board and immediately moved to a cashless process. MANY businesses did and still do but there is a significant minority of people spread across the country who cannot change their psyche of corruption and wanting to live in a 3rd world shithole as long as they are rich and the others can go to hell

Then why demonetize?

[Khota]

36 minutes ago, bharathh said:

If by RBI Governor you are talking about Raghuram Rajan - he wasn't the RBI Governor of the time. Raghuram Rajan is allied to his previous masters - Congress and would fall in line with that party's agenda. If you are talking about Urjit Patel who was the Governor - I haven't heard any such comments from him. 

 

Short term losses due to the wrecking of the informal economy should be welcome. It was poison to the economy in the long term.

It cut down on the growth and killed the construction business for a while.

 

In India everything can be achieved if done incrementally, not the shock and awe tactics that BJP uses.

[LordPrabhzy]

41 minutes ago, Khota said:

It cut down on the growth and killed the construction business for a while.

 

In India everything can be achieved if done incrementally, not the shock and awe tactics that BJP uses.

49 minutes ago, Khota said:

Then why demonetize?

 you just answered your own question and my point about the criminal and jugadi mindset people have. Construction and real estate was fuelled with black money and developers not being accountable for the quality and timelines. If it means a short term slump to kick the stomachs of these developers then fine- lets have real estate in the formal economy and all transactions done legally so the right level of tax can be paid and the market is stable price wise as opposed to rocketing to unaffordable levels as people have lot of black money at real estate.

 

If smaller cons in terms of low level transactions on the ground can be balanced by the pros of breaking the back of counterfeit and black money being used to finance elections, terror activities and crime then yes Im happy yo accept that. Imagine the illegal jugads people were doing even with the shock decision  by the Gov, imagine if they had given a 3 month period of demonetisation. there would have been NO positive outcome in any element ive mentioned above. in reality western democracy and freedoms to follow the law doesn't work with Indians who need a strong danda to keep them in check- example the same Indians in UAE are the model citizens and follow the rule of law because they know UAE authorities will come down on them like a ton of bricks but at the same time in India they will break all social and moral behaviour codes

[Khota]

10 minutes ago, LordPrabhzy said:

 you just answered your own question and my point about the criminal and jugadi mindset people have. Construction and real estate was fuelled with black money and developers not being accountable for the quality and timelines. If it means a short term slump to kick the stomachs of these developers then fine- lets have real estate in the formal economy and all transactions done legally so the right level of tax can be paid and the market is stable price wise as opposed to rocketing to unaffordable levels as people have lot of black money at real estate.

 

If smaller cons in terms of low level transactions on the ground can be balanced by the pros of breaking the back of counterfeit and black money being used to finance elections, terror activities and crime then yes Im happy yo accept that. Imagine the illegal jugads people were doing even with the shock decision  by the Gov, imagine if they had given a 3 month period of demonetisation. there would have been NO positive outcome in any element ive mentioned above. in reality western democracy and freedoms to follow the law doesn't work with Indians who need a strong danda to keep them in check- example the same Indians in UAE are the model citizens and follow the rule of law because they know UAE authorities will come down on them like a ton of bricks but at the same time in India they will break all social and moral behaviour codes

And they will do that again and again. It needs to be done at the source, as long as they can pay with cash for cement, bricks etc to the big industrialist, this will keep on happening. 

 

This is another knee jerk reaction by BJP that achieves nothing. Last time it was supposed to fix all that. Few years later we are back at square 1.

[Mariyam]

14 hours ago, Khota said:

Nonsense is what you are posting. In Delhi everyone is taking their 2000 note and buying jewelry. That erodes confidence in the currency.

 

Bhaskar (Bharatth) bus kar, itna bunkus mut kar.

 

@Mariyam which movie was this dialog from?

No idea.

 

Company?

[Khota]

23 hours ago, khadekhademaaro said:

Anand - Bhaskar , bas kar, aur taalne ki koshish mat kar

@Mariyam the correct answer was given by @khadekhademaaro

[Prakat]

Cash that gets converted to precious metals is ultimately a hedge against inflation and a safe haven asset for the family holding it but it is wealth that is now out of play. That same cash if it was deposited into a bank would get invested back into the money market. It indicates economic anxiety at the societal level when it becomes a trend.

[bharathh]

39 minutes ago, Prakat said:

Cash that gets converted to precious metals is ultimately a hedge against inflation and a safe haven asset for the family holding it but it is wealth that is now out of play. That same cash if it was deposited into a bank would get invested back into the money market. It indicates economic anxiety at the societal level when it becomes a trend.

What do you think the store that takes the cash does with it? The act of buying gold is a financial transaction. The store would either pay its employees with that money or reinvest it in some way or buy more inventory or deposit it in a bank. 

 

How is that different from a person directly putting it into a bank? 

[mishra]

8 hours ago, Prakat said:

Cash that gets converted to precious metals is ultimately a hedge against inflation and a safe haven asset for the family holding it but it is wealth that is now out of play. That same cash if it was deposited into a bank would get invested back into the money market. It indicates economic anxiety at the societal level when it becomes a trend.

Lets scrap everything and revert into economic and Finacial system of Renaisance era.

[LordPrabhzy]

9 hours ago, Prakat said:

Cash that gets converted to precious metals is ultimately a hedge against inflation and a safe haven asset for the family holding it but it is wealth that is now out of play. That same cash if it was deposited into a bank would get invested back into the money market. It indicates economic anxiety at the societal level when it becomes a trend.

People can always withdraw cash from their bank accounts to buy gold.... what is this obsession in India about hoarding black cash 

[Khota]

12 hours ago, LordPrabhzy said:

People can always withdraw cash from their bank accounts to buy gold.... what is this obsession in India about hoarding black cash 

Indians don't want to pay taxes. 

[LordPrabhzy]

12 hours ago, Khota said:

Indians don't want to pay taxes. 

 yes but they want freebies and all development but don't want to contribute anything towards  it. I'm not an advocate of HIGH taxes but if more of the population based a fair tax rate then the whole nation develops ( assuming there is a party in power who wont loot tax payer money in scams as their modus operandi)

[coffee_rules]

1 hour ago, LordPrabhzy said:

 yes but they want freebies and all development but don't want to contribute anything towards  it. I'm not an advocate of HIGH taxes but if more of the population based a fair tax rate then the whole nation develops ( assuming there is a party in power who wont loot tax payer money in scams as their modus operandi)

GST is  collected for a reason, we have sales tax, luxury tax, petrol tax , import tax, etc  (we have a Gulf war surcgargeon Petrol  even now). 

[LordPrabhzy]

34 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

GST is  collected for a reason, we have sales tax, luxury tax, petrol tax , import tax, etc  (we have a Gulf war surcgargeon Petrol  even now). 

GST is there in every country if bought things legally.

 

People have an issue with paying income tax or corporation tax so prefer to deal in cash- these types of taxes bring a lot more to the coffers of a Tresury than sales tax generally. If more people paid income tax, then there would be less need for luxury tax and import tax ( i.e much reduced rates)

[Khota]

3 hours ago, LordPrabhzy said:

 yes but they want freebies and all development but don't want to contribute anything towards  it. I'm not an advocate of HIGH taxes but if more of the population based a fair tax rate then the whole nation develops ( assuming there is a party in power who wont loot tax payer money in scams as their modus operandi)

Salaried people end up paying taxes but rich folks seldom do.

[coffee_rules]

Just now, Khota said:

Salaried people end up paying taxes but rich folks seldom do.

Not true, salaried people get taxed at source. Rich and business have different tax rate based on their type of income. Income gained from stock trading is much lower than salaried personal income. Capital gain tax is 15-20% while salaried have slabs which reach 35% in any country. EU has the max tax for salaried income, socialized state. Agri  income is not at all taxed , rich farmers and arthiyas pay 0 tax

[Khota]

8 hours ago, coffee_rules said:

Not true, salaried people get taxed at source. Rich and business have different tax rate based on their type of income. Income gained from stock trading is much lower than salaried personal income. Capital gain tax is 15-20% while salaried have slabs which reach 35% in any country. EU has the max tax for salaried income, socialized state. Agri  income is not at all taxed , rich farmers and arthiyas pay 0 tax

Do you think a rich guy who has a restaurant in Connaught Place discloses all his sales?

[khadekhademaaro]

9 hours ago, coffee_rules said:

Not true, salaried people get taxed at source. Rich and business have different tax rate based on their type of income. Income gained from stock trading is much lower than salaried personal income. Capital gain tax is 15-20% while salaried have slabs which reach 35% in any country. EU has the max tax for salaried income, socialized state. Agri  income is not at all taxed , rich farmers and arthiyas pay 0 tax

aap pravasi bharatiya nahi lagte hain. khwabon ki duniya mein rehte hai ? ,