Forget about foreign teams, is preparing rank turners not injustice to Indian fast bowlers ? Is it good for Indian team in the longer run ?

[zen]

2 minutes ago, maniac said:

It’s not called exception when you are the star performer in your last 4-5 games played at home and abroad. You would have had a point if Ashwin did well in 2018 or something and has sucked since then.

 

Ashwin or whoever, let's hope that they do better in relatively unhelpful conditions 

[ShoonyaSifar]

The home advantage part is absolutely well taken. But then the pitch should not start breaking up from the first couple of hours. Thankfully this pitch, due to black soil had some nice bounce for spinners, else it would have gone powdery becoming a very low slow wicket

 

Also remember, we prepared green pitches vs BD and our TM called it a preparation for NZ tour! Could the argument be made to portray our TM as apprehensive of eveb a flattish pitch vs Eng after being behind 0-1?

[Clarke]

Forget England, I don't get this local whining. We just had one track which turned from day one but was not unplayable on day 4, am sure we could have scored some runs. How often has even this type of track happened over the past few years ? Is just one turning track so much of a tsunami to destroy Indian cricket ?

 

Did I miss a press conference by proud husband announcing dustbowls for the entire next decade 

[Vilander]

3 minutes ago, Clarke said:

Forget England, I don't get this local whining. We just had one track which turned from day one but was not unplayable on day 4, am sure we could have scored some runs. How often has even this type of track happened over the past few years ? Is just one turning track so much of a tsunami to destroy Indian cricket ?

 

Did I miss a press conference by proud husband announcing dustbowls for the entire next decade 

Well...cause for gora approval purposes maan.

[zen]

18 minutes ago, sarchasm said:

 

Let me just address your ignorant rant about the pitches. We'll unpack your weird obsession over ''key'' countries at another time.

 

The quickest way to kill interest in cricket would be to introduce a monoculture of pitches in terms of how they behave. You may have swallowed the chooran that a pitch that offers everything to everyone is sporting but that's not true. It will only lead to test cricket become routine and formulaic. So my point about India retaining its distinctive spin character is not merely to win at home, but in the larger interest of cricket, and keeping the game healthier.

 

Matches in India and also to a large extent in Asia have a rhythm of their own, call for different strategies, and unique skills. This is something to be enjoyed and preserved, not dismissed out of hand. Test cricket is test cricket because teams are not only challenged by the opposition but also conditions.

 

Cricket is made interesting by the battle b/w bat and ball. Sporting pitches can help create a better balance to bring out the best of such battles ... The pitches that we are talking about in Ind, tend to produce some of the most boring cricket. As I implied, if Moeen and Leech bowled to Eng on such surfaces, they would have done as well as the Ind spinners 

 

As for the strategy and unique skills, If you can win the toss, even better ...

 

Edited February 16, 2021 by zen

[kubrickian]

We need to model some of our wickets after Australian pitches, which offer something to seamers and also for good spinners like how Ashwin, Jadeja, Lyon, Kuldeep have proved and batsmen can do well if they are good enough. No more flat wickets like the first test at Chennai. Think we have good seam bowling attack and batsmen who also can play pace and bounce, so 2 out of 4 tests can be seamer friendly and rest for spinners. 

[Lone Wolf]

Except England I think we won't serve these pitches to anyone..  They are the only team to clean sweep lanka twice in recent times so they clearly are tougher opposition to face than other SENA countries in subcontinent. 

 

[Vilander]

26 minutes ago, sarchasm said:

 

Let me just address your ignorant rant about the pitches. We'll unpack your weird obsession over ''key'' countries at another time.

 

The quickest way to kill interest in cricket would be to introduce a monoculture of pitches in terms of how they behave. You may have swallowed the chooran that a pitch that offers everything to everyone is sporting but that's not true. It will only lead to test cricket become routine and formulaic. So my point about India retaining its distinctive spin character is not merely to win at home, but in the larger interest of cricket, and keeping the game healthier.

 

Matches in India and also to a large extent in Asia have a rhythm of their own, call for different strategies, and unique skills. This is something to be enjoyed and preserved, not dismissed out of hand. Test cricket is test cricket because teams are not only challenged by the opposition but also conditions.

this. 
 

only reason it’s not popular to state this could be because it does not fit sena agenda. 

[Vilander]

3 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

Except England I think we won't serve these pitches to anyone..  They are the only team to clean sweep lanka twice in recent times so they clearly are tougher opposition to face than other SENA countries in subcontinent. 

 

England are the SENA equivalent of India they play spin and produce spin well enough to trouble lesser sc teams in sc, like India does with pace in SENA away.

[Lone Wolf]

14 minutes ago, Vilander said:

England are the SENA equivalent of India they play spin and produce spin well enough to trouble lesser sc teams in sc, like India does with pace in SENA away.

Yeah that's about it.  I think if they play Pakistan now..  They'll likely beat them at their home turf rather easily.  They need to stop this rotation non sense at least for tests & don't focus too much on Ashes which is still far away. 

 

[express bowling]

1 hour ago, sarchasm said:

 

The quickest way to kill interest in cricket would be to introduce a monoculture of pitches in terms of how they behave. that a pitch that offers everything to everyone is sporting but that's not true. It will only lead to test cricket become routine and formulaic. So my point about India retaining its distinctive spin character is not merely to win at home, but in the larger interest of cricket, and keeping the game healthier.

 

Matches in India and also to a large extent in Asia have a rhythm of their own, call for different strategies, and unique skills. This is something to be enjoyed and preserved, not dismissed out of hand. Test cricket is test cricket because teams are not only challenged by the opposition but also conditions.

 

 

A very fair point.

 

But I would like to add that a test match played on a sporting pitch in India with the SG ball would be very different from a test match played on a sporting pitch in Australia with the Kookabura or in England with the the Dukes.

 

A sporting pitch in India will help an Ashwin while making it difficult for a Moeen or a Bess. It will help Shami's reverse swing bowling but Broad won't have it easy. Top batters against spin and reverse swing will score but not everybody.

 

This is what I want rather than a pitch which equates Ashwin and Bess or Shami and Curran.

 

In that sense, the 2nd test pitch was just that as far as spinners and batsmen are concerned. But I missed the reverse swing fast bowling aspect, which is also a big flavour of India.

Edited February 16, 2021 by express bowling

[Vilander]

26 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

Yeah that's about it.  I think if they play Pakistan now..  They'll likely beat them at their home turf rather easily.  They need to stop this rotation non sense at least for tests & don't focus too much on Ashes which is still far away. 

 

yup a full strength England might even run India close if they win most tosses. They will beat pak as well ( probably can beat BD as is ) and obviously they beat SL. India struggles to beat NZ Eng as of now in our away tours. 

[putrevus]

I don't think pitches in this test series have been bad. India should have done better with both bat and ball in first innings in first test. It is  test cricket you are supposed to have different challenges. Why should Indian pitches behave like Australian or English pitches.

 

Yes some times helpful pitches bring guys like Leach on par with guy like Ashwin. Our batsmen have to show their superiority on such occasions. It is India and the pitches will continue to help spinners  as they should for next 100 years. Even with improved fast bowling ,spinners are the main overall wicket takers in last five years.

 

On a helpful conditions in England Bhuvi becomes equal with Anderson on some occasions.

 

 

[BacktoCricaddict]

Right now, make the WTC final.  Then we can set up WACA or Sabina Park or the grassy knolls of the colonial lords in all Indian stadiums for the next 2 years.  

Edited February 16, 2021 by BacktoCricaddict

[Nikhil_cric]

Ironically,  I think this team plays best on pitches with decent pace and quite a bit of bounce but not much lateral movement. They are the worst players of seam movement in the world and are not great players of spin like previous Indian batsmen. But on pitches with good and consistent bounce they can bat, the spinners get purchase and the fast bowlers can get something out of it too. 

 

Flat pitches in india have a very low bounce component (read a Cricviz stat a while ago that it is lower than even UAE). So while run scoring is easy,  bowlers become toothless unless it reverse through the air and spinners have to bowl dry. 

[putrevus]

1 hour ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

Right now, make the WTC final.  Then we can set up WACA or Sabina Park or the grassy knolls of the colonial lords in all Indian stadiums for the next 2 years.  

Spot on, making WTC final is the most important thing now.For that if they have roll out bunsen burners , so be it. 

[Jay]

9 hours ago, kubrickian said:

I couldnt care less about the whinging Poms, but if we prepare only rank turners where 95% wickets are taken by spinners and seamers exist only to bowl a couple of overs with new ball and stand at the boundary for the rest of the game, this essentially means fast bowlers will only get good conditions to bowl when they tour overseas. Because any player essentially plays more than half their games at home, Bumrah, Shami and even upcoming seamers will need to settle for a mediocre career even though they are brilliant as Cummins or Rabada. 

 

BCCI will prepare rank turners any day which favor India because it ensures wins but is that good for Indian team in the long run when we are playing so much cricket overseas especially in SENA countries. Would it be better to prepare wickets which help seamers and also spinners on 4th and 5th days and also be prepared to lose a game(or even a series) for better contests and also improve all round quality of the team ?

Put It this way. If Indian bowlers can excel here they can excel anywhere. That's the idea. 

[Jay]

6 hours ago, Vilander said:

yup a full strength England might even run India close if they win most tosses. They will beat pak as well ( probably can beat BD as is ) and obviously they beat SL. India struggles to beat NZ Eng as of now in our away tours. 

Let India win 4 out of 5 tosses in England or n.z and you will see India thrashing them away as well. 

[Jay]

If Umesh and Shami and jaddu were available, we would have given sporting pitches with little  help for spin and reverse swing. 

 

England would have had some serious issues if those 3 played. Right now we have to prepare Turner's because we don't have those 3. 

[vvvslaxman]

Given the fact Indian players don't play domestic like they used to do in the 80s and 90s their game against spin has regressed. We get out to spinners even overseas. Lyon, Moeen have won matches with their spin.  If anything Indian batting line up is better equipped to handle pace than spin. So I say it is a gain not a loss.