After watching this: Do you think quality of cricket has gone up or down since 70’s-80’s?

[Khota]

People who talk about the past are trying to dimiish India's achievements. Cricket is much better now. Bowling is faster hitting is harder and T20 has done wonders for this game.

[Jay]

1 hour ago, Khota said:

People who talk about the past are trying to dimiish India's achievements. Cricket is much better now. Bowling is faster hitting is harder and T20 has done wonders for this game.

this is the correct response to this rubbish. past is always overrated due to nostalgia. 

 

Anyway, west indian team of 80s would be a top team in any era though. that is certain. Great teams will do well in any era. put current bowling attack of india with 90s or 2000 era team and they will win everywhere too. 

[zen]

The question/premise of the thread is probably not articulated brightly as it is seeking to compare two decades (70-80s) with 3+ (90s-today). 
 

Because of evolution and adjustment to the experience curve, the bench strength of teams have improved, resulting in relatively more competitive games now. As far as pool of very high quality cricketers playing together is concerned, there may have been a decline esp. if we look in terms of decades v periods of 2 decades v 3+.

 

Let’s look at the decades/periods: 

 

70s-80s:

Fast bowling: yet to see a bunch of exceptional fast bowlers play together as a group like the WI. May be Aus with inform Cummins, Hazlewood and Starc can compete by coming close. Other teams like Aus (Lillee-Thomson), NZ (Hadlee) and Pak (Imran and later joined by Wasim) had good bowling attacks too

 

Spin bowling: Ind spin quartet was probably the spin equivalent of WI pace attack. Other teams had good spinners too like Underwood. Pak had Qadir, who was competitive 

Wicket keepers: Not as good in batting as some of today’s keepers (evolution) but keeping of the top ones was exceptional - Knott, Kirmani, Dujon, Marsh, ...

 

Batting: Very high quality batsmen mixed with avg ones. Guys like Sobers, Gavaskar, Richards, Greendige, Lloyd, Miandad, Chappell, Border, M Crowe, B Richards, G Pollock, etc will walk into any side 

 

ARs: Sobers (in his last phase but overall still the best cricketer), Hadlee, Imran, Botham, Kapil and Mike Procter will walk into any team 

 

Post 80s, with the benefits discussed earlier, we have been able to compete through a larger more refined pool of cricketers with a few outliers:

 

Fast bowling: Handful of good fast bowling sides over the decades such as Aus and SA, along with carryover from 80s WI (Ambrose and Walsh) and Pak (Wasim). Ind currently is doing well too 

 

Spin: Warne and Murali are outliers. Spin stock looks tier 2 otherwise, relying on extremely helpful conditions (having more fans because of a larger population following them does not equate to being the best)

WKs: Outliers like Gilchrist. Though overall, the quality can be deemed to be better as many can bat well now, while their keeping is still competitive enough 

 

Batting: Top batsmen are as good as  the 70s-80s counterparts. Sangakkara (when not a wk), Lara, S Waugh (though started in 80s), etc., are outliers. Gilchrist too as a WK batsman 
 

ARs: Only a selected few like Pollock and Kallis (but as a bowler he averaged like 12-13 overs per inning. Stokes (also needs to bowl more) and  Sakib (carries the BD’s batting) are good too. Other names that come to mind are Cairns, Flintoff, etc., but nothing that sets the cash register ringing 

 

Edited March 24, 2021 by zen

[zen]

PS my current AT Test 11 post 1970 (retired players):

 

Gavaskar -> 70s-80s

V Richards -> 70s-80s

Sangakkara 

Lara

Sobers - carryover into 70s

S Waugh 

Gilchrist 

Hadlee -> 70s-80s

Marshall -> 70s-80s

Warne

Ambrose/Donald/Steyn/Wasim/...

 

5 from 70s-80s, with some who began in 80s

Edited March 24, 2021 by zen

[Global.Baba]

^ you are missing the point like a lot of folks have and may be I have to take the blame for not articulating it .

 

I am not calling the current bunch of players inferior or the previous bunch superior

 

I am also acknowledging the fact that bats,technology, fitness, coaching has all evolved.

 

Teams will have ups and downs, if you are comparing the players from India etc from that generation to now we should also look at the quality of these wi players to what they have now as well.

 

The premise of the thread is based on the assumption that cricket in the 70’s and 80’s was club level and not intense.

 

This highlight package from a game in 1984 doesn’t give me any indication that the quality of cricket played was still as high as ever for that time.

 

Its relative. It doesn’t show me that the gameplay itself has improved or decreased.

 

The bowling was fast and the fielding, reflexes and catching of these players more or less is the same.

 

 

Edited March 24, 2021 by Global.Baba

[Global.Baba]

34 minutes ago, zen said:

PS my current AT Test 11 post 1970:

 

Gavaskar -> 70s-80s

V Richards -> 70s-80s

Sangakkara 

Lara

Sobers - carryover into 70s

S Waugh 

Gilchrist 

Hadlee -> 70s-80s

Marshall -> 70s-80s

Warne

Ambrose/Donald/Steyn/Wasim/...

 

5 from 70s-80s, with some who began in 80s

I am confused, so if your post 70 AT 11 has  6-7 players from the 70’s/80’s and few from 90’/ and only 1 from 2000’s (Steyn) then you are basically agreeing with me that external factors may have evolved and a few innovations made but the quality of game play is more or less the same. 

[Global.Baba]

10 minutes ago, sarchasm said:

 

It's not a point, it's a rhetorical question to highlight the stupidity of your OP. How does one tell the quality of cricket from an edited video across eras?

Based on some arguments one would  assume that based on the era from which this game  is played , bowlers here would look harmless dibbly dobbly trundlers and the fielders would just let the ball go through their legs and drop dollies 

 

That doesn’t seem to be the case here. The bowling looks as good as it does now in the modern era  and so does the catching,keeping,captaincy  etc.

 

broadcasting (commentary) is in fact way superior.

 

Batting you may have a point there but it is only relative, Viv Richards,Lloyd  and Greenidge have the same rules and are playing with the same bat as the assuies and smacking them around.

 

Now coming to this being a highlights package, well even though I do have a lot of time to burn everyone has a threshold and I don’t think I can sit and watch every ball of a test match now leave alone from a game played in the 70’s.

 

You work with what you have and from this highlights package It is evident that the quality of gameplay on the field is no way inferior to the gameplay now. 
 

The catches Haynes was taking in the video at short gully would be dropped by say someone like  Kohli 9/10 times.

 

No conflict here and it’s not my way or the highway, you can form your own conclusion and I am flexible with my opinion if someone makes a strong point. 

 

 

 

 

[zen]

8 minutes ago, Global.Baba said:

I am confused, so if your post 70 AT 11 has  6-7 players from the 70’s/80’s and few from 90’/ and only 1 from 2000’s (Steyn) then you are basically agreeing with me that external factors may have evolved and a few innovations made but the quality of game play is more or less the same. 

 

more or less, yes as I discussed in my long post as well 

[Global.Baba]

By the way this is apparently Courtney Walsh’s first test and you can see his first test wicket in the video. Looks a lot like Jason Holder here with the ball  

[Jay]

Bumrah Shami Ishant Bhuvi. That's as good as any pace attack from the past era great teams. Only masochist Indian fans with self hatred would say otherwise. They know who they are. 

[Global.Baba]

Just now, Jay said:

Bumrah Shami Ishant Bhuvi. That's as good as any pace attack from the past era great teams. Only masochist Indian fans with self hatred would say otherwise. They know who they are. 

ease up on the coffee and re read the post.

[express bowling]

36 minutes ago, Global.Baba said:

Based on some arguments one would  assume that based on the era from which this game  is played , bowlers here would look harmless dibbly dobbly trundlers and the fielders would just let the ball go through their legs and drop dollies 

 

That doesn’t seem to be the case here. The bowling looks as good as it does now in the modern era  and so does the catching,keeping,captaincy  etc.

 

broadcasting (commentary) is in fact way superior.

 

Batting you may have a point there but it is only relative, Viv Richards,Lloyd  and Greenidge have the same rules and are playing with the same bat as the assuies and smacking them around.

 

Now coming to this being a highlights package, well even though I do have a lot of time to burn everyone has a threshold and I don’t think I can sit and watch every ball of a test match now leave alone from a game played in the 70’s.

 

You work with what you have and from this highlights package It is evident that the quality of gameplay on the field is no way inferior to the gameplay now. 
 

The catches Haynes was taking in the video at short gully would be dropped by say someone like  Kohli 9/10 times.

 

No conflict here and it’s not my way or the highway, you can form your own conclusion and I am flexible with my opinion if someone makes a strong point. 

 

 

 

Cricket is a very complex game, with so many parameters.

 

My impression is that there are certain factors which have improved and a few others which have deteriorated, when we compare the 2010s and 2020s with the 1980s.

 

Better in the 2010s and 2020s  ....

 

Stroke play

Power of average batters

Ability to play pace and bounce

Running between the wickets

Ground fielding

Catching in the deep or near the 30 yard circle

Pace of fast bowlers

Ability to sustain pace by fast bowlers

Ability to bowl accurately at 140 k+

Difference between the great player and the average player has narrowed ... typical of a more professional era

 

 

Better in the 1980s ....

 

Ability to leave balls outside off stump

Ability to leave bouncers

Ability to play swing

Slip catching

Natural playing styles

 

 

 

 

Edited March 24, 2021 by express bowling

[Global.Baba]

5 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

Cricket is a very complex game, with so many parameters.

 

My impression is that there are certain factors which have improved and a few others which have deteriorated, when we compared the 2010s and 2020s with the 1980s.

 

Better in the 2010s and 2020s  ....

 

Stroke play

Power of average batters

Ability to play pace and bounce

Running between the wickets

Ground fielding

Catching in the deep or near the 30 yard circle

Pace of fast bowlers

Ability to sustain pace by fast bowlers

Ability to bowl accurately at 140 k+

 

 

Better in the 1980s ....

 

Ability to leave balls outside off stump

Ability to leave bouncers

Ability to play swing

Slip catching

 

 

 

 

I would add ability to play spin as well. Even SC players are struggling against spin these days.

[express bowling]

1 minute ago, Global.Baba said:

I would add ability to play spin as well. Even SC players are struggling against spin these days.

 

 

I have not included this because there is DRS now and padding away deliveries is rarely possible.

 

The challenges of playing spin is vastly different now.

 

 

[Ankit_sharma03]

no point comparing, those days batsman use to fear for their life forget having an attacking instinct . Today batsman dnt fear stepping out to a fast bowler

[Global.Baba]

Serious question, why are people confusing this thread to be some kind of criticism of India’s evolution as a cricketing power?

 

Even if we exclude the bat,boundary,poretrctive gear etc,  The Aussie batting in this video is definitely inferior quality to the Aussie  batting side of 2020-2021 with Smith,Warner,Labu and even Wade who is probably better than a lot of batsmen playing here?

 

However teams go through ups and downs in terms of quality. This has nothing to do with changes in cricket rules or new innovations.

 

Cricket as a whole seems to be holding (no pun intended) up. The pitch and the bowling in the video and add to that the catching would destroy batting line ups most if not all teams today.

 

Just to add apparently WI scored 400 runs in a day on the same pitch in this game . Incredible.

Edited March 24, 2021 by Global.Baba

[Global.Baba]

2 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

no point comparing, those days batsman use to fear for their life forget having an attacking instinct . Today batsman dnt fear stepping out to a fast bowler

Watch the video, the bowling is just not about bouncing out the batsman, that’s disservice to the skill and quality of the WI attack and their fielding.

 

Yes the Aussie team is probably not their greatest.

[rkt.india]

1 hour ago, sarchasm said:

 

There's a podcast featuring Kimber where he says Cummins is arguably the quickest *and* most accurate pacer EVER. Personally I feel Bumrah is just as good. And he said that the legendary quicks from 70s and 80s were notoriously inaccurate. Thommo for example would have half his deliveries going down the leg side. Now can you imagine this kind of bowler, no matter how quick, survive today? He'd be butchered.

 

And I fully agree too. I have only watched from the 90s and it just seems to me, bar a few like McG and Ambrose, pacers back in the day could stray in line or length and get away with it. Batsmen back them simply chose to let many of those balls go that they'd come down on like Thor's hammer these days.

 

The margins in cricket have become progressively infinitesimal.

3 pacers, Cummins ER of 2.74, Bumrah 2.7,  most accurate fast bowlers currently in test cricket.

[zen]

32 minutes ago, Global.Baba said:

Watch the video, the bowling is just not about bouncing out the batsman, that’s disservice to the skill and quality of the WI attack and their fielding.

 

Yes the Aussie team is probably not their greatest.

 

Top test teams in the 80s were WI, Pak & NZ (Hadlee + Crowe) iirc

Edited March 24, 2021 by zen

[putrevus]

It is all about teams. 1970s WI  would be their strongest teams in their history and pssible the greatest team ever  . It does not matter how fit the latest WI players are they would not match the talent level of 1970s-80s WI teams. 

 

If people think modern batsmen with all the protection can handle those bowlers then they are completely wrong. It is the four pronged pace attack with no respite to the batsmen. If four Cummins quality fast bowlers who had something different to offer then how are batsmen going to survive them.

 

If Walsh and Ambrose twosome caused such havoc then what would foursome of those bowlers would do batsmen.

 

Their batting lineup would fit perfectly to suit any style or brand of cricket .