express bowling Posted April 15, 2021 Author Share Posted April 15, 2021 5 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said: Ok , will watch him next time. Till now whatever i saw of him i found him a bit like natrajan minus Yorker. My impression is the same. Gets a bit more bounce though. Mosher 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Global.Baba Posted April 15, 2021 Share Posted April 15, 2021 Just now, express bowling said: My impression is the same. Gets a bit more bounce though. You may watch the highlights of the 1st innings if you can. Also that is pretty much the T20 template in the first 2-3 overs when there is a little swing. You open with your best exponent of swing when the batsmen are still assessing the pitch. There is a reason why he started of before even guys like Unadkut and Fizz who are those cutter/variation type bowlers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkt.india Posted April 15, 2021 Share Posted April 15, 2021 7 minutes ago, express bowling said: Isn't there a chance of being found out once the batters come to know him better. Difficult because inconsistency of his action means batsman don't know which ball is coming quick which. It's a natural variation from him. When he gets it right, ball zips through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkt.india Posted April 15, 2021 Share Posted April 15, 2021 (edited) 47 minutes ago, express bowling said: Avesh used to bowl.a very heavy ball till 2019. Seems to have lost that ability. Also seems to be a bowler who won't be able to sustain pace for more than 4 overs or even 4 overs. He always had same problem. So I am not sure. One IPL season, most bowlers were clocked quicker, so, I have doubts over those numbers when Siraj, Avesh, Mavi, prasidh all clocked 149k. Heavy ball you are talking about isn't actually heavy ball. There is no such thing like heavy ball. It's just a rhetoric term told when they can't explain why a bowler suddenly surprises batsman. It's all about consistency or rather inconsistency of velocity with extra bounce that deceives the batsman. Edited April 15, 2021 by rkt.india Vilander and Indwin 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkt.india Posted April 15, 2021 Share Posted April 15, 2021 (edited) Avesh has a very common problem. His back foot lifts up after landing just before delivering the ball which leads to front arm falling too early. It means he is not able to transfer the momentum efficiently that makes his action and pace inconsistent. Also not able to utilise his full potential. He can easily gain 4-5 kph with a bit of work on that. Edited April 15, 2021 by rkt.india Jay 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
express bowling Posted April 15, 2021 Author Share Posted April 15, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, rkt.india said: He always had same problem. So I am not sure. One IPL season, most bowlers were clocked quicker, so, I have doubts over those numbers when Siraj, Avesh, Mavi, prasidh all clocked 149k. Prasidh bowled 4 or 5 deliveries at 150 kph the next season, not that one. Mavi is a quick bowler and so it is not surprising at all. Quote Heavy ball you are talking about isn't actually heavy ball. There is no such thing like heavy ball. It's just a rhetoric term told when they can't explain why a bowler suddenly surprises batsman. It's all about consistency or rather inconsistency of velocity with extra bounce that deceives the batsman. A heavy ball means the bowler hits the deck hard and the ball loses lesser pace than it usually does for other pacers. A normal pacer releasing the ball at 140 kph reaches the batsman at 110 kph or so. A pacer who bowls a heavy ball releases the ball at 140 kph but it may reach the batsman at 113 kph or 115 kph. This may happen due to seam position or wrist whip plus hitting the deck hard. Avesh had this ability of really hurrying the batsmen even with 135 kph balls. Not seeing it now. Edited April 15, 2021 by express bowling Mosher 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkt.india Posted April 15, 2021 Share Posted April 15, 2021 (edited) 6 minutes ago, express bowling said: Prasidh bowled 4 or 5 deliveries at 150 kph the next season, not that one. Mavi is a quick bowler and so it is not surprising at all. A heavy ball means the ball loses lesser pace than it usually does for other pacers. A normal pacer releasing the ball at 140 kph reaches the batsman at 110 kph or so. A pacer who bowls a heavy ball releases the ball at 140 kph but it may reach the batsman at 113 kph or 115 kph. This may happen due to seam position or wrist whip or other factors. That is called zippy, skiddy pace, not heavy ball. Heavy ball is ball that is quicker than batsman expected with extra bounce. Difference skiddy pace and heavy ball. Avesh has always been patchy. He hurried the batsman today as well but was neither consistent before nor now in this aspect. Edited April 15, 2021 by rkt.india Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
express bowling Posted April 15, 2021 Author Share Posted April 15, 2021 (edited) 10 hours ago, rkt.india said: That is called zippy, skiddy pace, not heavy ball. Heavy ball is ball that is quicker than batsman expected with extra bounce. Difference skiddy pace and heavy ball. Heavy ball is a zippier ball too. Bounce does not have to be too much. Typically, heavy balls hit the bat hard around the splice area. Edited April 16, 2021 by express bowling Mosher 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Global.Baba Posted April 15, 2021 Share Posted April 15, 2021 10 minutes ago, express bowling said: Heavy ball is a zipper ball too. Bounce does not have to be too much. Typically, heavy balls hit the bat hard around the splice area. heavy ball from what I know is something for example Kallis used to bowl. It looks like a typical 135-140k delivery but batsmen used to feel the impact when they blocked it. He used to absolutely smash the ball on the pitch. Other similar bowlers I can remember are Ryan Harris,Langeveldt or Pat Cummins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Global.Baba Posted April 15, 2021 Share Posted April 15, 2021 (edited) 22 minutes ago, rkt.india said: That is called zippy, skiddy pace, not heavy ball. Heavy ball is ball that is quicker than batsman expected with extra bounce. Difference skiddy pace and heavy ball. Avesh has always been patchy. He hurried the batsman today as well but was neither consistent before nor now in this aspect. heavy ball is bowler smashing the ball into the pitch. That’s mostly SA and Aussie type bowling. Skiddish is more SC type bowling. Think of it more like one of those stones/pebbles you throw in the water and make it zip across the surface. It kisses the pitch more than hitting it. that’s my understanding. Rest I leave to experts Edited April 15, 2021 by Global.Baba express bowling 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkt.india Posted April 15, 2021 Share Posted April 15, 2021 9 minutes ago, express bowling said: Heavy ball is a zipper ball too. Bounce does not have to be too much. Typically, heavy balls hit the bat hard around the splice area. Yes, extra bounce is always a factor with heavy ball. Also it's about inconsistency of velocity and bounce after pitching and deceptiveness. Even with bowlers who are routed to bowl heavy ball, every ball isn't heavy ball. For eg, a bowler hitting 135 with normal bounce and the next ball 140, hitting similar area suddenly gets a bit more bounce that surprises the batsman. So two different paced and bounce deliveries hitting similar area while bowler seemed to put the similar effort for both deliveries. This deceives the batsman who got hurried. Batsman is facing the ball. He doesn't know whether it was 135 or 140. He reacts to the bowler and the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkt.india Posted April 15, 2021 Share Posted April 15, 2021 7 minutes ago, Global.Baba said: heavy ball from what I know is something for example Kallis used to bowl. It looks like a typical 135-140k delivery but batsmen used to feel the impact when they blocked it. He used to absolutely smash the ball on the pitch. Other similar bowlers I can remember are Ryan Harris,Langeveldt or Pat Cummins. Harris was skiddy. Pat. Cummins is skiddy, not heavy. Neither langeveldt. Flintoff was Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Global.Baba Posted April 15, 2021 Share Posted April 15, 2021 Just now, rkt.india said: Harris was skiddy. Pat. Cummins is skiddy, not heavy. Neither langeveldt. Flintoff was I don’t remember Harris and Langaveldt so much anymore so will take your word for it but Cummins is not skiddish, he hits the deck very hard. Starc is the skiddish bowler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkt.india Posted April 15, 2021 Share Posted April 15, 2021 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Global.Baba said: heavy ball is bowler smashing the ball into the pitch. That’s mostly SA and Aussie type bowling. Skiddish is more SC type bowling. Think of it more like one of those stones/pebbles you throw in the water and make it zip across the surface. It kisses the pitch more than hitting it. that’s my understanding. Rest I leave to experts . Skiddy bowling is one thing. While Bowler smashing the ball on the pitch is called hit the deck bowling. McGrath, Gillespie, Flintoff, harmison, Donald all hit the deck hard. Heavy ball is deceptively quicker and bouncier than normal. Not every ball can be called heavy ball. The focus here is on deceptive. Edited April 15, 2021 by rkt.india Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkt.india Posted April 15, 2021 Share Posted April 15, 2021 3 minutes ago, Global.Baba said: I don’t remember Harris and Langaveldt so much anymore so will take your word for it but Cummins is not skiddish, he hits the deck very hard. Starc is the skiddish bowler. Yeah Cummins is more hit the deck than skiddy but he displays both qualities. Bumrah is same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
express bowling Posted April 15, 2021 Author Share Posted April 15, 2021 1 minute ago, rkt.india said: Yes, extra bounce is always a factor with heavy ball. Also it's about inconsistency of velocity and bounce after pitching and deceptiveness. Even with bowlers who are routed to bowl heavy ball, every ball isn't heavy ball. For eg, a bowler hitting 135 with normal bounce and the next ball 140, hitting similar area suddenly gets a bit more bounce that surprises the batsman. So two different paced and bounce deliveries hitting similar area while bowler seemed to put the similar effort for both deliveries. This deceives the batsman who got hurried. Batsman is facing the ball. He doesn't know whether it was 135 or 140. He reacts to the bowler and the ball. Bounce is always a factor but that bounce does not have to be too much. A little extra bounce and a bit more zippiness. Mosher 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
express bowling Posted April 15, 2021 Author Share Posted April 15, 2021 11 minutes ago, Global.Baba said: heavy ball is bowler smashing the ball into the pitch. That’s mostly SA and Aussie type bowling. Skiddish is more SC type bowling. Think of it more like one of those stones/pebbles you throw in the water and make it zip across the surface. It kisses the pitch more than hitting it. Yes ... hitting the deck hard is a prerequisite for a heavy ball. Global.Baba and Mosher 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Global.Baba Posted April 15, 2021 Share Posted April 15, 2021 1 minute ago, rkt.india said: You are confusing. Skiddy bowling is one thing. Bowler smashing the ball on the pitch is called hit the deck bowling. McGrath, Gillespie, Flintoff, harmison, Donald all hit the deck hard. Heavy ball is deceptively quicker and bouncier than normal. Not every ball can be called heavy ball. The focus here is on deceptive. That’s why I specifically mentioned Kallis. Fair point and not trying to argue but Kallis used to smash the ball in to the pitch and because he was underestimated at times as the 5th bowler batsmen and he wasn’t the bowler you assess in the air, he used to surprise the batsman when they played a basic prod. I think we are more or less saying the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkt.india Posted April 15, 2021 Share Posted April 15, 2021 Just now, express bowling said: Bounce is always a factor but that bounce does not have to be too much. A little extra bounce and a bit more zippiness. Also a lot to do from the length the ball comes. It will mostly be short of length, hitting the pitch harder than the bowler's other deliveries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
express bowling Posted April 15, 2021 Author Share Posted April 15, 2021 3 minutes ago, rkt.india said: Also a lot to do from the length the ball comes. It will mostly be short of length, hitting the pitch harder than the bowler's other deliveries. Even a good length ball, when the pacer has hit the deck hard and the ball zips in with a bit of bounce and hits the splice of the bat really hard, is a heavy ball. A short of a length ball can be a heavy ball too. Mosher 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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