IPL ... Speeds and Performances of Pacers and Spinners ....

[express bowling]

Good slower balls by Siraj in the final over.

 

The last ball was an attempted yorker.

 

Finishes with 2 for 25.

[express bowling]

17 hours ago, Vilander said:

Yeah he is accurate fast medium. No need to try to become fast and loose accuracy.may be he wants a few quick deliveries to be in reckoning im speed lists. 

 

 

If you look at Siraj's last 2 test innings as well as his last 2 IPL.games ... he has been both quick and accurate.

 

As long as I have seen Siraj bowl, 130 k to 145 k has been his natural speed range where he is accurate.

Edited April 15, 2021 by express bowling

[express bowling]

Siraj used to bowl some good accurate quick yorkers in domestic cricket.

 

Want to see them in the IPL too 

[vishalvirsingh]

11 hours ago, Rightarmfast said:

Bhai, Arshdeep surely has a higher ceiling than Natarajan. We seem to be making too many judgements based on the numbers on the speedometer. If Natarajan can perform so well in Australia, so can Arshdeep. Arshdeep has a future. He can be a 2nd string bowler, but still has some potentials. Have not watched the other bowler to comment.

Sorry Brother, Pardon me but I beg to differ on this.

Nattu is extremely accurate, He is better than Bumrah whn it comes to bowling yorkers.

He beat Kohli today by his slow bowling Skills. he kinda has 99% control over his line , length and even the Spot where he is looking to ball.

His control over his bowling can be compared to BHUVI only.

He bowls from 122K to 138K. He is playing for INDIA purely on his SKILL SET. I dont think he has any backing as he is a POOR Boy and before last IPL , no one knew him. 

he did play some t20 matches at state level.

Nattu is a left arm medium pace and it helps him big time.

he is one of the best in india for T20's but not for ODI or Test.\

 

Arshdeep is no where close by....due to many reasons , one of them is that he bowls using his right arm.

 

[vishalvirsingh]

I am sorry to say that INDIA is playing IPL matches on PATTA's where Nattu, rashid khan, Harshal , arshdeep are looking as better bowlers than the 145K+ fast bowlers.

 

our trundlers r looking as world beaters- but that's not the truth.

[express bowling]

7 hours ago, vishalvirsingh said:

I am sorry to say that INDIA is playing IPL matches on PATTA's where Nattu, rashid khan, Harshal , arshdeep are looking as better bowlers than the 145K+ fast bowlers.

 

our trundlers r looking as world beaters- but that's not the truth.

 

 

Most of these pitches are not even pattas ... but sluggish pitches which are not common in white ball cricket.

 

Such sluggish pitches will kill the enjoyment of watching both stroke play as well as pace bowling.

 

Not good for T20s.

 

Such pitches are bringing to the fore Unadkat type of bowlers who are neither pacers nor spinners. 

 

 

[Rightarmfast]

As far as I know and remember, Md Siraj hit express pace in IPL 2018. However,in IPL 2017, he wasnt hitting the same pace. Neither did he touch the same high speeds in 2019 or 20. 

However, he was already in the Indian T20 squad in 2017. As per my knowledge, that defies the logic that he was introduced in the team due to his express pace. 

 

It is absolutely fantastic to hit express pace. However, that should come with ease. Hitting express pace at the cost of losing your strength may not be the smartest idea according to me, at the international level. 

While there is a possibility we could see Siraj hitting pace in excess of 145 by the next year or 2, when he has cemented his place, there's a big possibility he will settle for a fast-medium pace and play to his strength. Siraj is raw and aggressive and has a very shrewd cricketing brain. He should know how and where to channel and harness his energy best.

[Rightarmfast]

10 hours ago, vishalvirsingh said:

I am sorry to say that INDIA is playing IPL matches on PATTA's where Nattu, rashid khan, Harshal , arshdeep are looking as better bowlers than the 145K+ fast bowlers.

 

our trundlers r looking as world beaters- but that's not the truth.

I agree. That is not the case. But the kind of pro batsmen rules that are in place, makes it easier for an above average player to look like an ATG. Performing in your domestic IPL is one thing, but the real test is when you perform abroad when you dont have the crowd support and the batsman is out there to kill you. Thats the real test. 

[express bowling]

Siraj had regularly bowled 135 k to 146 k in IPL 2019 too. And he bowled 135 k to 150 k in IPL 2018. Even in IPL 2020, his quickest ball was 146 k 

 

This speed range of 135 k to 146 k is fast bowling and not express bowling. 

 

Even on the A-tours in 2018, when he picked wickets for fun, Siraj was beating batsmen for pace regularly and making the ball fly through to the keeper. 

 

Siraj is a very interesting bowler in the sense that his outswingers are usually around 130 k to 136 k and his good quality indippers are usually 137 k to 146 k. His bouncers are usually 135 k to 145 k.

 

This is the right approach.  Extra pace is needed for indippers, yorkers and bouncers and not for classical outswingers. 

 

Siraj will never bowl every ball.st 140 k+ ... but will suddenly surprise batsmen with a really quick ball. This is the reason why he got so many bowleds and LBWs.

Edited April 15, 2021 by express bowling

[Rightarmfast]

The reason he got bowled and LBW's is not because he bowled a sudden quick ball. He got wickets because he directed the ball at the batsmen, attacked them throughout. That is a tactic not every bowler is capable of.

Edited April 15, 2021 by Rightarmfast

[vishalvirsingh]

5 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

 

Most of these pitches are not even pattas ... but sluggish pitches which are not common in white ball cricket.

 

Such sluggish pitches will kill the enjoyment of watching both stroke play as well as pace bowling.

 

Not good for T20s.

 

Such pitches are bringing to the fore Unadkat type of bowlers who are neither pacers nor spinners. 

 

 

Exactly...Sluggish could be the right word...SUkha Patta's with practically no Green patch at all. it looks that a light roller has been rolled in just a few times and the Pitch has been handed over.

 

it seems that there is very little work done on the Pitches. I remember our team and even our oponents criticising our Pitch person and he saying that He has no water to regularly put and Sun soaks in what ever water is left.

this gives a very bad picture of indian curators...that pitch on which 225 was scored and samson got his team to reach till 221...oh that was a SUKHA SLUGGISH Patta.

a pitch which doesnt help pacers and nor even spinners...probably trundlers or SMART bowlers can only suceed on these pitches.

harshal was inswinging the ball or bowling 120K indippers ..ball which kinda swung in deep.

These pitches will definitely get us some SMART bowlers , in Mumbai we call them SYANA.

 

But that will do more harm than good. even Pacers would want to become SYANA bowlers when they see arshdeep and harshal suceeding big time.

when international matches are played in countries except INDIA , Lanka and Pak, pitches have a considerable green or genuine bounce, some times spungy bounce.

 

I have hardly enjoyed seeing any of the IPL matches in this IPL as I did not like the Pitches. all are garave yard for Pacers. chennai one has helped spinners for sure but is a grave yard for pacers.

With powerful batsman and high quality english willows, even the best of Spinners will be hit in T20's.

 

[express bowling]

4 hours ago, express bowling said:

Siraj had regularly bowled 135 k to 146 k in IPL 2019 too. And he bowled 135 k to 150 k in IPL 2018. Even in IPL 2020, his quickest ball was 146 k 

 

This speed range of 135 k to 146 k is fast bowling and not express bowling. 

 

Even on the A-tours in 2018, when he picked wickets for fun, Siraj was beating batsmen for pace regularly and making the ball fly through to the keeper. 

 

Siraj is a very interesting bowler in the sense that his outswingers are usually around 130 k to 136 k and his good quality indippers usually are 137 k to 146 k. His bouncers are usually at 135 k to 145 k.

 

This is the right approach.  Extra pace is needed for indippers, yorkers and bouncers and not for classical outswingers. 

 

Siraj will never bowl every ball.st 140 k+ ... but will suddenly surprise batsmen with a really quick ball. This is the reason why he got so many bowleds and LBWs.

 

 

Good examples of what I am trying to say. regarding Md. Siraj's bowling style. This is over a 4 plus year period ... ever since Siraj has come into prominence. Not talking about just this year.

 

 

....  Year 2017  

Wickets with quicker Indippers at 137 kph and 142 kph

 

https://www.iplt20.com/video/106024/super-siraj-picks-up-4-wicket-haul

 

 

.... Year 2018

Bouncer at 137 kph and caught

Bowled by a very sharp indipper

Bowled by a quick indipper at 146 kph.

 

 

https://www.iplt20.com/video/133577/mohammed-siraj-picks-up-3-25-vs-srh

 

 

 

.... Year 2020

Bowls Shaw with a sharp 139 k ball

 

 

https://www.iplt20.com/video/225292/siraj-s-beauty-ball-to-shaw?tagNames=indian-premier-league&references=CRICKET_PLAYER:3840,CRICKET_TEAM:9

 

 

.... Year 2020

Wickets with

Outswinger at 134 kph

Indipper at 129 kph

Channel ball seams in at 140 k

 

https://www.iplt20.com/video/220241/mohammed-siraj-s-bowling-brilliance-3-8

 

 

 

.... Year 2021

Most of the outswingers and channel ball dismissals at 132 k to 135 k.

Only one LBW with a quicker ball at 137 k.

 

 

 

 

 

.... Year 2021

Setting up Root in the 4th test 1st innings ... away going deliveries in the early 130s ... traps Root LBW with a quicker 139 kph indipper.  (  Check overs 10.x and 12.1 on the ICC website for the speeds  )

 

Traps Bairstow LBW with a very quick 146 kph indipper. (  Check over 28.1 on the ICC website for the speed. )

 

 

https://www.bcci.tv/videos/151128/how-siraj-set-up-root-s-dismissal

 

 

.... Year 2021

 

IPL 2nd match first over

 

Outswingers at 136 kph and 132 kph followed by a much quicker indipping jaffa at 144 kph.

 

 

 

Edited April 15, 2021 by express bowling

[Lone Wolf]

I think there is something different about Siraj's  wrist position..  He somehow whips the ball during the release like  Cummins does & gets extra zip outta surface.  Only bowler I have seen so far in The IPl to move the ball initially in Chennai. 

Hopefully he continues this..  At this rate he is my first pick for WTC final with Bumrah. 

[Global.Baba]

I know there is silence due to Sakariya’s pace but he has some zip to his bowling. Good swing bowler and very intelligent in the Chahar/Bhuvi mould.

[express bowling]

38 minutes ago, Global.Baba said:

I know there is silence due to Sakariya’s pace but he has some zip to his bowling. Good swing bowler and very intelligent in the Chahar/Bhuvi mould.

 

 

What about Unadkat ?  3 wickets for 12 runs so far.

 

Thing is ... most of these bowlers are not like Bhuvi.  Bhuvi is a proper swing bowler who is very very accurate. 

 

Many of these medium pacers, doing well this season,  seem to be dependant on slower balls on sluggish pitches to take wickets.

 

The sluggish pitches are bringing to the fore, Unadkat types of half-spinner / half-seamers.

[Global.Baba]

1 minute ago, express bowling said:

 

 

What about Unadkat ?  3 wickets for 12 runs so far.

 

Thing is ... most of these bowlers are not like Bhuvi.  Bhuvi is a proper swing bowler who is very very accurate. 

 

Many of these medium pacers, doing well this season,  seem to be dependant on slower balls on sluggish pitches to take wickets.

 

The sluggish pitches are bringing to the fore, Unadkat types of half-spinner / half-seamers.

You still need skills to bowl on these pitches. 
 

Anderson was one of the toughest fast bowlers to play on some dustbowls in Ind/SL recently.

 

There is a reason Unakdut has been around for a decade and a half , he has been considered good enough to play for India back in the day, he has had decent IPL seasons in the past.

 

Sure he is not an allround bowler who will take wickets on every pitch but then again he is not as hopeless as we think he is. He will be smashed in another game but why can’t we appreciate skillful bowling in a thread dedicated to bowlers?
 

I am on the same page as you. Don’t have time for trundlers and like to watch exciting fast bowling but we can’t be biased when we are here to appreciate the overall skills of the cricketer. 
 

A fast bowler who needs fast pitches to show his skill is as bad as a slow medium bowler in sluggish pitches. Yeah sure there is entertainment factor but that is preference and subjective. From a cricket perspective we should give credit where due regardless of someone’s track record when they do well. Unadkut has earned all his wickets today so well done to him.

[Jay]

8 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

What about Unadkat ?  3 wickets for 12 runs so far.

 

Thing is ... most of these bowlers are not like Bhuvi.  Bhuvi is a proper swing bowler who is very very accurate. 

 

Many of these medium pacers, doing well this season,  seem to be dependant on slower balls on sluggish pitches to take wickets.

 

The sluggish pitches are bringing to the fore, Unadkat types of half-spinner / half-seamers.

agreed. at the end of the day sakariya doesnt have the skills to survive in tests or odi at his pace. 

 

you need to be bhuvi level talented to be successful at sub 135 level pace. Even bhuvi averages 133 plus in tests but his 133 with proper swing is equal to facing a phasst trundler bowling 141. skill plus pace = deadly combo. bumrah cant swing the ball like bhuvi naturally however he has a deadly bouncer and accurate yorkers. 

[Global.Baba]

2 minutes ago, Jay said:

agreed. at the end of the day sakariya doesnt have the skills to survive in tests or odi at his pace. 

 

you need to be bhuvi level talented to be successful at sub 135 level pace. Even bhuvi averages 133 plus in tests but his 133 with proper swing is equal to facing a phasst trundler bowling 141. skill plus pace = deadly combo. bumrah cant swing the ball like bhuvi naturally however he has a deadly bouncer and accurate yorkers. 

Not everyone who does well in IpL needs to be given an international cap or debut in test cricket.

Edited April 15, 2021 by Global.Baba

[Jay]

Just now, Global.Baba said:

You still need skills to bowl on these pitches. 
 

Anderson was one of the toughest fast bowlers to play on some dustbowls in Ind/SL recently.

 

There is a reason Unakdut has been around for a decade and a half , he has been considered good enough to play for India back in the day, he has had decent IPL seasons in the past.

 

Sure he is not an allround bowler who will take wickets on every pitch but then again he is not as hopeless as we think he is. He will be smashed in another game but why can’t we appreciate skillful bowling in a thread dedicated to bowlers?
 

I am on the same page as you. Don’t have time for trundlers and like to watch exciting fast bowling but we can’t be biased when we are here to appreciate the overall skills of the cricketer. 
 

A fast bowler who needs fast pitches to show his skill is as bad as a slow medium bowler in sluggish pitches. Yeah sure there is entertainment factor but that is preference and subjective. From a cricket perspective we should give credit where due regardless of someone’s track record when they do well. Unadkut has earned all his wickets today so well done to him.

yes but is unadkat really as skilful as bhuvi or siraj ? i dont think so. watch bhuvi's wrist position. its perfect. he rotates his wrist and the ball actually turns even on very docile tracks. Its actually quite amazing that he is able to generate speeds of up to 135 plus with that sort of action. there is significant variance in terms of turn when he pitches the ball. he extracts good movement off the pitch due to his bowling action. 

 

faulkner did that in odi to an extent. Couldnt quite execute his skills in tests unfortunately but he is one of the main reason why aussies won the WC in 2015. 

[Jay]

2 minutes ago, Global.Baba said:

Not everyone who does well in IpL needs to be given an international cap or debut in test cricket.

imo india selects players based on their ranji exploits too. generally a good test bowler should be very good in t20. generally. not always the case though.