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Vaccine theory


Real McCoy

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On 5/6/2021 at 2:56 PM, ravishingravi said:

 

I am not sure where I stand on the vaccine. But I have to totally agree with you here. To my mind, this whole things has turned me off media, social media and god forsaken judiciary. @Mariyam wtf is judiciary doing in India. Here I am worried about govt overreach during Pandemic and judiciary has just blown it.

+1

On 5/6/2021 at 3:30 PM, Serpico said:

If you need to log off from information overload, do it, it can be good for you, but you misunderstood ne here. I am not wishing death on anti vaxers, just saying that "everything is fine until now" is not a solid logic. Things can change very quickly, if you aren't prepared for them it will get more complicated than it needs to be. 

I'm not saying you do that on purpose. I can see the effect of media in your post. Its good that you realized this. Maybe in the future, you'll use your words more carefully. Good thoughts translate to good deeds. What I'm saying is "everything WAS fine" not IS. There was no situation like this last year and it only started the last few months hence the thread.

On 5/6/2021 at 4:40 PM, ash said:

What a stupid thread. First of all, none of the vaccines promised 100 percent efficacy. The reason India is having many breakthrough infections ( covid after vaccination ) is because our wave is coinciding with the phase 1 of vaccination. Ideally if we had vaccinated a certain amount before the wave struck, we would have less number of breakthroughs. 

 

Covid after vaccines and Covid BECAUSE of vaccines are two different things. There are reports of blood clots with the adenovirus vaccines like AZ and JJ, but are absolutely no reports of vaccines causing COVID. Every expert in the world predicted a second wave, it would have happened even without vaccines. 

Lets not be so quick to judge ok. Vaccine creation requires years of testing. Why can't the govt say the truth that these vaccines were basically untested or underwent limited testing. This situation is far worse than the normal scenario without vaccines. Our body has an immune system and this half baked vaccines are basically screwing it up. If you are not an immunologist, your knowledge is none better than mine. Hence calling this thread as stupid is also stupid.

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1 hour ago, Number said:

UK vaccinated 50% of its population (with AZ only?) and now they have a test positivity rate of 1%. 

Yes there might be need of immunity booster shots but that is something can be thought over later.

Bharat Biotech is already working for a Nasal spray vaccine so going further we may have a better chance of that kind of solution.

 

 

Johnson & Johnson resumed their vaccination after reporting of block. Out of 8 million new doses 17 developed blood clots. None of them died. None of them were gasping for oxygen. Benefits of the vaccine far outweighs the risk.  If people are serious about returning to normal life vaccine is the only option.  Unlike other viruses this can kill one within 2 weeks after acquiring it. Where is the question of developing immunity. Many COVID survivors are still feeling the effect. A relative of mine has a permanent headache. Low energy. Neurological problems. A regular gym guy is absolutely winded now. There is nothing like "recovering" here.

Edited by vvvslaxman
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2 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

 

Johnson & Johnson resumed their vaccination after reporting of block. Out of 8 million new doses 17 developed blood clots. None of them died. None of them were gasping for oxygen. Risk of vaccine far outweighs the lack of vaccine.  If people are serious about returning to normal life vaccine is the only option.  Unlike other viruses this can kill one within 2 weeks after acquiring it. Where is the question of developing immunity. Many COVID survivors are still feeling the effect. A relative of mine has a permanent headache. Low energy. Neurological problems. A regular gym guy is absolutely winded now. There is nothing like "recovering" here.

 

:s:

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1 hour ago, Mariyam said:

You are using over reach in what context exactly? The comments on the EC?

 

Let me put this back at you. What would have the judiciary do in this situation?

 

No not comments on EC. High Court and SC is on daily basis giving operational directives to State and Central governments. 

It is no better than a twitter account with running commentary on any and everything. 

They should just keep their butt out. They are neither helping bring transparency or resolve dispute. Just doing running commentary. 

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1 hour ago, Real McCoy said:

Our body has an immune system and this half baked vaccines are basically screwing it up

Back this up with data. Show us proof that vaccines cause covid. Don't create panic without proof

Edited by ash
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52 minutes ago, ravishingravi said:

 

No not comments on EC. High Court and SC is on daily basis giving operational directives to State and Central governments. 

It is no better than a twitter account with running commentary on any and everything. 

They should just keep their butt out. They are neither helping bring transparency or resolve dispute. Just doing running commentary. 

Don't share your views at all.

 

Do you want to wait for some noble soul to file an RTI, at great risk to himself/herself,  to find out about the governments order on vaccines and their subsequent transfer to various states?

 

If the courts are ordering a dekko and asking for operational details/counts it will bring about transparency.

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1 hour ago, ash said:

Back this up with data. Show us proof that vaccines cause covid. Don't create panic without proof

You left the important part of my post. Are you an immunologist. Answer this first then we can have a discussion

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5 hours ago, Number said:

UK vaccinated 50% of its population (with AZ only?) and now they have a test positivity rate of 1%. 

Yes there might be need of immunity booster shots but that is something can be thought over later.

Bharat Biotech is already working for a Nasal spray vaccine so going further we may have a better chance of that kind of solution.

UK used three vaccines and no one except them know what's the percentage they've used for each vaccine. Also they are discouraging AZ for under-40 people for safety concern and giving choice so most are opting for Pfizer. 

 

Another country which has vaccinated with AZ( around 40% , remaining is sinopharm) is sychelles, an african country. Despite vaccinating almost all, covid cases are raising. 

 https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-05-04/world-s-most-vaccinated-nation-reintroduces-curbs-as-cases-surge

 

 

https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4037/rr-20

Edited by urbestfriend
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2 hours ago, Mariyam said:

Don't share your views at all.

 

Do you want to wait for some noble soul to file an RTI, at great risk to himself/herself,  to find out about the governments order on vaccines and their subsequent transfer to various states?

 

If the courts are ordering a dekko and asking for operational details/counts it will bring about transparency.

 

Just like Delhi court "ordering" to provide confiscated Oxygen machiens for "judicial personnel"? 

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For me, pro or anti vaccine discussion is pointless. Goal is herd immunity. That we all agree. Does everyone have to vaccinated to get to herd immunity ? No. You just have to get to it. 
 

More than 99% people survive covid. So, absolutely negligible numbers died from vaccine. But once vaccinated, data so far shows that you develop additional immunity. So where is argument. 

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https://www.nationalheraldindia.com/india/the-riddle-of-vaccines-and-vaccination

 

Professor Paul Bieniasz flagged his main concern that vaccines themselves can also drive viral mutations and hence COVID-19 vaccines can add to the evolution of mutation of Coronavirus. According to him the time between initial vaccination and the time of the second shot to maximise the immune response might serve as an ideal milieu for the virus to acquire new mutations.

He postulated that while the original virus for which the vaccine was made got suppressed, the new variants may have a free run. One such mutation has been called an escape mutation because it helps the virus slip past the body’s immune defences. Ravindra Gupta at the University of Cambridge and colleagues have confirmed that the new variant substantially increases the amount of serum antibody needed to prevent infection of cells. A Reuters report from Japan on Sunday quoted a figure as high as 70 percent for this escape variant in hospitalised patients.

 

https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4037/rr-20

Edited by urbestfriend
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7 minutes ago, ravishingravi said:

For me, pro or anti vaccine discussion is pointless. Goal is herd immunity. That we all agree. Does everyone have to vaccinated to get to herd immunity ? No. You just have to get to it. 
 

More than 99% people survive covid. So, absolutely negligible numbers died from vaccine. But once vaccinated, data so far shows that you develop additional immunity. So where is argument. 

 

The word "survive" has very little meaning when it comes to covid. My relative got covid 7 months back. He is still winded. He has a permanent headache.  He is only in his 30s. It hurts your immunity badly.  Which disease killed multiple family members in the space of 2 days. Which disease bring your oxygen level in blood to alarmingly low level in a matter of couple of days. 99% number is also wrong. It is more than that. It is grossly under-reported.  Many are not even admitted inside. THey die at home or on the streets. They are not actually counted as covid deaths.

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3 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

The word "survive" has very little meaning when it comes to covid. My relative got covid 7 months back. He is still winded. He has a permanent headache.  He is only in his 30s. It hurts your immunity badly.  Which disease killed multiple family members in the space of 2 days. Which disease bring your oxygen level in blood to alarmingly low level in a matter of couple of days. 99% number is also wrong. It is more than that. It is grossly under-reported.  Many are not even admitted inside. THey die at home or on the streets. They are not actually counted as covid deaths.

 

Anecdotal evidence is biased and not based on data. This is a problem we are having now in India. For every 1 person who gets hit hard, 7-8 just sail through. For me, it was milder than viral fever. But I am not important. We must look at data and let people decide.

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11 minutes ago, ravishingravi said:

 

Anecdotal evidence is biased and not based on data. This is a problem we are having now in India. For every 1 person who gets hit hard, 7-8 just sail through. For me, it was milder than viral fever. But I am not important. We must look at data and let people decide.

Where is the exact data when both testing and death count being fudged by the governments.? 

But no of cases, deaths reported and age factor of deaths, we can safely say second wave is much more deadly than first wave and no where comparable to viral fever. 

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23 minutes ago, ravishingravi said:

 

Anecdotal evidence is biased and not based on data. This is a problem we are having now in India. For every 1 person who gets hit hard, 7-8 just sail through. For me, it was milder than viral fever. But I am not important. We must look at data and let people decide.

https://www.sciencealert.com/young-adults-who-got-covid-19-show-lasting-cardiovascular-damage-in-study

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9 minutes ago, urbestfriend said:

Where is the exact data when both testing and death count being fudged by the governments.? 

But no of cases, deaths reported and age factor of deaths, we can safely say second wave is much more deadly than first wave and no where comparable to viral fever. 

 

Its true. But we have to go with what we have. We can safely say that there is no large scale deaths from vaccination simply because its difficult to hide. 

 

I think social media makes it easier to share things now. But then again social media companies could be censoring. 

 

So, you are right. But I am going with what we have. And there will be inconsistencies. Which can be challenged. 

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9 minutes ago, urbestfriend said:

Where is the exact data when both testing and death count being fudged by the governments.? 

But no of cases, deaths reported and age factor of deaths, we can safely say second wave is much more deadly than first wave and no where comparable to viral fever. 

You cannot get official figures for fraud counts from the very people who indulges in it. These are from Frontline workers. Several articles were published on after effects. 

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