Indian batsman vs Indian bowlers- Whichplayer who wud have dominated or gotten better of other had they played against each other ?

[Adamant]

I will take Ishant, Shami, Bumrah anyday over Zaheer, Zaheer Khan is overrated by Indians, Srinath deserves the adulation that Khan gets. He was our lone warrior, not Zaheer. 

Even Irfan Pathan has better records and I will actually take him over Khan in tests, could reverse the ball, swings it more than Khan and better control. 

[Adamant]

Also Zaheer Khan is no Boult or even Amir, he didn't move the ball at high pace. 

When Khan bowled in the 140s he had lesser control, only when he became a trundler he was able to improve his skills and control. 

Rohit Sharma will Smash Him. 

[Lone Wolf]

Rahane actually was a decent player of spin early.  I still remember he was one of the few batters who actually batted well on rank turners vs SA in 2015..  Simon Harmer is picking truck loads of wickets in county & he was playing then. 

However there was a sharp decline after that no doubt. 

He was batting well against Lyon in Australia recently so let's see. 

Guys like Pujara who were supposed to be beasts against spin are the one actually dancing around these days. 

Edited June 5, 2021 by Lone Wolf

[Gollum]

2 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

Rahane actually was a decent player of spin early.  I still remember he was one of the few batters who actually batted well on rank turners vs SA in 2015..  Simon Harmer is picking truck loads of wickets in county & he was playing then. 

IIRC Rahane scored 2 100s in the 4th test in Delhi, and that was a patta. Pujara and Vijay did the bulk of the scoring on rank turners in T1, T3. 

[Ankit_sharma03]

1 hour ago, sarchasm said:

Is that why Rahane was averaging over 60s in domestics that earned him a national call?

 

In domestic rahane use to bat at 3 so mostly faced new ball and by the time spin came he was mostly set. A set batsman is a set batsman , and most of our current players spin playing skill has gone down with lack of playing domestic regulalry. Even Rohit n kohli has had some issues against spin specially against leggies but they also had damn good avg in domestic. 

Rahane technique has gotten worse against spin yr after yr even kohli's 

[Jay]

1 hour ago, Adamant said:

I will take Ishant, Shami, Bumrah anyday over Zaheer, Zaheer Khan is overrated by Indians, Srinath deserves the adulation that Khan gets. He was our lone warrior, not Zaheer. 

Even Irfan Pathan has better records and I will actually take him over Khan in tests, could reverse the ball, swings it more than Khan and better control. 

Lol? There is doubt. Current Indian bowling is the best attack of Asia of all time. 

Edited June 5, 2021 by Jay

[Ankit_sharma03]

45 minutes ago, sarchasm said:

In Indian domestics, spin comes on by 10th over, and if you average 60 like Rahane did, a midwit can tell he must have mostly faced spin.

 

His technique might have deteriorated or he might be less confident against spin now, but this is a speculative thread. If he continued to play against Indian spinners on Indian pitches, he'd likely have continued to average above 55.

 

not necessarily and u have forgotten their was a phase in domestic when spinners went obsolete due to green pitches

 

Also u didnt read my post carefully at 3 high chance u also face new ball which comes on bat better and someone like rahane prefers that as compare to ball coming slow on bat at 5 . Rahane major problem against spin has been his hard hands and not being wristy enough. In initial days his footwork was very decisive not the case anymore. If he wud have continued playing domestic against those guys u think the wudnt have found this chink

[Majestic]

5 hours ago, sarchasm said:

The Zaheer khan fetish on this forum is quite something. An out of shape and out of breath trundler who sucked only for 85 percent of his career. Give me Venkatesh Prasad anytime.

Yeah sure, you can take him all the time. But I would want to win matches overseas and hence prefer Zaheer over most of the Indian pacers except  Bumrah.

[Ankit_sharma03]

48 minutes ago, sarchasm said:

Dude, stop.

 

You bullshitted Rahane would struggle against all Indian spinners across all eras. I called you out on that and now you are doing one if-and-but after another. Rahane averaged over 60 in Ranji when he had the likes of Ashwin and Jadeja and Harbhajan and Ojha etc playing in the circuit. That singular fact alone should have stopped you from cringe hyperbole about his game against spin.

dude stop living in a 2-3 yr bubble ...as if that was the only cricket he wud have played his life. The same guy avg in international cricket in india is ignored all of sudden. 

We all know how much bhajji wud have played in domestic that time n yea as if he wud have played every game against other 3 all time. Also read what i wrote his technique got worse over the years n his basic game had an issue which always was going to find out. But acc to u he wud have never played beyond that time.

 

News flash he did an in international where his avg at home is nothing to talk about. 4-5 intial years are just not the all the cricket anyone plays...what counts is what u do whole career

[R!TTER]

Rahane was a  much better player than either Kohli or Pujara at debut, yes the one in 2011 vs Eng! His technique reminded me of SRT the most at the time, of course SRT is the gold standard as far as I'm concerned. A few things happened post that phase, he never debuted in test in 2011 - which he should've & then he was dropped for Sharmaji in SA 2017 

You think KL, Rahane, Pujara & Pant losing their form is such a happy coincidence? Why the * do you think no batter has flourished under Kohli & why the eff has our test batting only gotten worse over the years! Yeah I know what Brat fans will say but it's quite clear that if you don't have confidence in your players & always put them on knife's edge they'll fail more often than not! And just an FYI check Brat's test avg against spin, excluding minnows, post that 2016 Eng series at home!

 

 

Edited June 6, 2021 by R!TTER

[Ankit_sharma03]

3 minutes ago, sarchasm said:

 

How the fark does it square with his FC record? Don't bore me with his recent record which I am well aware of.

 

Read 

 

1. 

On 6/5/2021 at 6:43 PM, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Also u didnt read my post carefully at 3 high chance u also face new ball which comes on bat better and someone like rahane prefers that as compare to ball coming slow on bat at 5

 

2. 

On 6/5/2021 at 4:59 PM, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Rahane technique has gotten worse against spin yr after yr even kohli's 

 

3. yea right as if every side had ashwin, bhajji na . 

U know how many domestic sides india have and how many avg players are there

 

here is an example of avg spinners...as u can see his feet movement was better but still had hard hands so sooner or later it wud have been discovered

 

 

if u wanna keep repeating those 2 -3 points yea keep living it in reality ....its out there how he plays spin now . Lack of practice in domestic just made it worse but the problem was always which in domestic wasnt much exploited due to so many avg sides , batting at 3, many domestic games at home venue wankhade as u can see above but hard hands and not being wrist against spin was always going to be a problem in long run

 

 

 

[Ankit_sharma03]

33 minutes ago, R!TTER said:

Rahane was a  much better player than either Kohli or Pujara at debut, yes the one in 2011 vs Eng! His technique reminded me of SRT the most at the time, of course SRT is the gold standard as far as I'm concerned. A few things happened post that phase, he never debuted in test in 2011 - which he should've & then he was dropped for Sharmaji in SA 2017 

You think KL, Rahane, Pujara & Pant losing their form is such a happy coincidence? Why the * do you think no batter has flourished under Kohli & why the eff has our test batting only gotten worse over the years! Yeah I know what Brat fans will say but it's quite clear that if you don't have confidence in your players & always put them on knife's edge they'll fail more often than not! And just an FYI check Brat's test avg against spin, excluding minnows, post that 2016 Eng series at home!

 

 

 

 

Many reasons

 

• he always enjoyed ball coming on bat which doesnt happen that smoothly at 5 in India but does well overseas so overseas wasnt an issue . Had he batted at 3 in india his record wud have been way better. At 3 his spin bowling issues wudnt have been that much as now. 
• Ambition of being a white ball player and then frustration led to of a game plan n techqniue tinkering
• Some how his batting technique was improving under duncan but post him their started a decline
• Now he tried the other extreme in test of being extra defensive which again isnt his natural game
• He has tinkered with his technique also 
• His feet movement was so better n clearer earlier which now looks cluttered. Against spin he has a pre decided mindset that he ll play mostly on front foot that to he doesnt play straight most times. Feet movement is an indication of mindset and his is very cluttered
• Becoming irrelevant in IPL also hasnt helped his confidence 

[Ankit_sharma03]

 

this is how he plays spin now.......spinners wud have eaten him alive with this.

Its just terrible....small strides not even getting to the pitch of the ball. He is isnt very wristy either. His strides werent very long either at start but still foot movement was clear now thats also cluttered

 

 

[Lone Wolf]

6 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

 

this is how he plays spin now.......spinners wud have eaten him alive with this.

Its just terrible....small strides not even getting to the pitch of the ball. He is isnt very wristy either. His strides werent very long either at start but still foot movement was clear now thats also cluttered

 

 

Rahane has again started to improve btw..  His home record is on the rise as he is still highest run scorer for India in current WTC. 

At the moment more weak players of spin are Pujara & Kohli in Indian lineup. 

Rahane was sorta dominating Lyon this Aus tour too.  His feet movement look more assured..  He has started sweeping as well.  Current Rahane is inconsistent but not as bad as Pujara or Kohli. 

[Ankit_sharma03]

59 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

Rahane has again started to improve btw..  His home record is on the rise as he is still highest run scorer for India in current WTC. 

At the moment more weak players of spin are Pujara & Kohli in Indian lineup. 

Rahane was sorta dominating Lyon this Aus tour too.  His feet movement look more assured..  He has started sweeping as well.  Current Rahane is inconsistent but not as bad as Pujara or Kohli. 

 

• yea looks like improving but got to see for a longer time to come to a conclusion, currently its like extremes for him either he looks damn good on a day or absolute aweful. But he has become quite loose n casual at start of the innings then he use to be. Playing one format at international level isnt easy also. I still do beileve that his best is yet to come but the wait has gone for way to long . 
• With pujara teams have worked out a plan now his failure depends on how long does he take to find a solution. The longer he takes to comeup with a counter plan the longer it continous.
• With kohli its not his best kind of phase so the problem have become even bigger. The sooner he leaves captaincy the better its for him

[nevada]

Manoj Prabhakar would have troubled Kohli massively with his swinging deliveries. Ditto for Rohit. 

 

 

[Adamant]

22 hours ago, R!TTER said:

 

You think KL, Rahane, Pujara & Pant losing their form is such a happy coincidence? Why the * do you think no batter has flourished under Kohli & why the eff has our test batting only gotten worse over the years! Yeah I know what Brat fans will say but it's quite clear that if you don't have confidence in your players & always put them on knife's edge they'll fail more often than not

 

 

This is exactly the kind of idiotic, braindead, drama filled response that I expected from someone who has zero knowledge of cricket. 

 

Now if I say the same about how fast bowlers have started performing under Kohli, this guy will tell me how only fast bowlers themselves were responsible for their performances. 

 

Matlab there is a limit to conspiracy theories and idiocy, this forum has crossed it. 

Edited June 7, 2021 by Adamant

[Ankit_sharma03]

5 hours ago, nevada said:

Manoj Prabhakar would have troubled Kohli massively with his swinging deliveries. Ditto for Rohit. 

 

 

 

u might be spot on....someone like a sandeep sharma has troubled both of them in IPL specially kohli

[MechEng]

Bumrah at his prime would have made Laxman his bunny. Dravid of that Sabina Park innings would have probably just survived him marginally.

 

[Ankit_sharma03]

11 minutes ago, sarchasm said:

Missed this gem as I got caught up with that Rahane cannot play spin nonsense. Here's Sachin, who I believe played the greatest left arm bowler of all time in approx 14 innings. And Akram could only dismiss him once. But our fat trundler zaheer (or zak lol) with his test average of 35 would make Sachin battle. LMAO!

 

if you only u wud have seen domestic u wud hve known zak use to trouble him, infact zak even troubled sehwag, dhoni and ganguly was his bunny

Sandeep sharma isnt even an international player yet he troubles kohli, gayle, rohit in IPL.....Matchups hve nothing to do with over all avg. Some player trouble other

 

Zak n Wasim arent even same kind of bowlers , just becoz they are left armers doesnt mean u compare them. And about left armers sachin was dimissed by even Mullalay, Zoyza, Vaas

 

Even in IPL sachin faced 13 balls from zak and just made 3 runs

Edited June 9, 2021 by Ankit_sharma03