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rangeelaraja

Greatest non-allrounder (specialist) cricketer of all time - Glenn Mcgrath

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44 minutes ago, zen said:

For tests, I did the below for Oceania's cricketers sometime back. Based on performance points per inning (let's call it PPI), where 1 wkt = roughly 21 runs (based on some back of envelope calculations I did some time back):

 

image.png

 

 


 

Yeah... when you blindly apply simplistic stats without knowledge of the game or common sense it can lead to funny conclusions.

 

Using Wickets per innings stand alone is an ignorant way to do any analysis. It heavily favors bowlers who don’t have other strike bowlers for company. It would also lead to ignorant conclusions that Bhajji might be a better bowler than Akram and Ambrose because of better/similar wicket per innings when the reality is he is no where as close.

 

Mcgrath had to share the spoils with strike bowlers not less than the likes of Warne- an all time great spinner, Brett Lee and Gillespie.

 

Mcgraths sheer domination of all time great batsmen of his era on any turf is peerless.

 

His ODI final performance is leagues above anyone - no one in insight.

 

overall - he is head and shoulders above anyone - backed by stats and facts 
 

 

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, rangeelaraja said:


 

Yeah... when you blindly apply simplistic stats without knowledge of the game or common sense it can lead to funny conclusions.

 

Using Wickets per innings stand alone is an ignorant way to do any analysis. It heavily favors bowlers who don’t have other strike bowlers for company. It would also lead to ignorant conclusions that Bhajji might be a better bowler than Akram and Ambrose because of better/similar wicket per innings when the reality is he is no where as close.

 

Mcgrath had to share the spoils with strike bowlers not less than the likes of Warne- an all time great spinner, Brett Lee and Gillespie.

 

Lots of dumb assumptions ... every condition has its pros and cons including having more good bowlers makes for a relatively easy game 

 

Stop clowning around including assuming that things have been put together blindly and stick to the topic

 

 

 

 

Quote

 

Mcgraths sheer domination of all time great batsmen of his era on any turf is peerless.

 

His ODI final performance is leagues above anyone - no one in insight.

 

overall - he is head and shoulders above anyone - backed by stats and facts 

 

 

you are entitled to your opinion ... I have seen many great bowlers to know where McGrath stands 

Edited by zen
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1 hour ago, zen said:

 

Lots of dumb assumptions ... every condition has its pros and cons including having more good bowlers makes for a relatively easy game 

 

Stop clowning around including assuming that things have been put together blindly and stick to the topic

 

 

 

 

 

you are entitled to your opinion ... I have seen many great bowlers to know where McGrath stands 

 

 

Nothing dumber than doling out wickets/innings to measure a bowler conclusively. 

 

You may have watched cricket for donkeys years but if you yet don't understand how only looking at wickets/innings  favors 1 man or 2 man bowling attacks ( especially subcontinental spinners ) ..then you must stop following cricket. 

 

 

I put out all-round bowling stats  & facts for Mcgrath  to justify Mcgrath's undisputed GOAT  specialist cricketer status 

  •  ODI finals performance
  •  WC performance
  • Test bowling domination - all around the globe
  •  Sub-continent performance in tests ( how many fast bowlers from  outside the subcontinent have dominated Indian batsmen CONSISTENTLY in tests in India ? 
  •   BIG game performance etc...
  • Domination of the best batsmen of his era

 

This is called " analysis". Not some dumb ass wickets/innings number that even a 3rd grader can scrap from cricinfo.

 

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Posted (edited)
46 minutes ago, rangeelaraja said:

Nothing dumber than doling out wickets/innings to measure a bowler conclusively. 

 

You may have watched cricket for donkeys years but if you yet don't understand how only looking at wickets/innings  favors 1 man or 2 man bowling attacks ( especially subcontinental spinners ) ..then you must stop following cricket. 

 

As I said, every condition has its own pros and cons, having a stronger bowling attack makes a game relatively easier for all bowlers in the team 

 

As for McGrath, which is what the discussion is about, he actually benefited from playing with Warne. In Tests, w/ Warne is wkts/inning is roughly 2.4, without Warne, it is 2 from the top of the mind recall excluding v BD & Zim 

 

 

 

 

46 minutes ago, rangeelaraja said:

I put out all-round bowling stats  & facts for Mcgrath  to justify Mcgrath's undisputed GOAT  specialist cricketer status 

  •  ODI finals performance
  •  WC performance
  • Test bowling domination - all around the globe
  •  Sub-continent performance in tests ( how many fast bowlers from  outside the subcontinent have dominated Indian batsmen CONSISTENTLY in tests in India ? 
  •   BIG game performance etc...
  • Domination of the best batsmen of his era

 

This is called " analysis". Not some dumb ass wickets/innings number that even a 3rd grader can scrap from cricinfo.

 

 

People do not combine Tests & LOIs as there is also the option to pick the best in each format. 2nd, focusing on tests, when batting at 4-7, batsmen like Lara and Pieterson avg 58, Kallis avgs 45, etc., when McGrath is playing ... And you probably have no idea, what guys like Marshall, Hadlee, etc. have done in subcon in tests 

 

Also note that  McGrath feasted on Eng, NZ, Pak, and WI in the 00s. 84 of his 124 tests are against these 4 teams. Has a relatively poor record against the strongest team of his time - SA

 

McGrath is a good bowler but I would not put him like you described in the title of this thread 

 

Good effort, but hopefully eventually you will get better w/ your analysis! 

 

Edited by zen
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Is there any doubt about this? At his peak from Jan 1995 till he stepped on the ball in 2005 , he took 489 wickets @ 20.13 and with a Strike rate of 48.6. Owned all the ATG batsmen with the sole exception of maybe Kallis. GOAT test bowler.

 

Then theres the ODI bowler. Great overall stats, rivalling the best and was no.1 bowler for most of 1999-2007. But apart from that you just have to look at the way the 1999 World Cup panned out . He wasnt given the new ball initially and a jaded Australia lost to NZ and Pakistan. But once got the new ball, he wrecked Windies , reduced India to 17/4 with Tendulkar gone to a ferocious lifter from slightly short of a good length. And bowled another great splice jarring spell in the final. 

 

There are consistent players and then there mavericks who lift their game when the stakes are high. Pidge was both scarily enough.

 

 

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47 minutes ago, zen said:

 

As I said, every condition has its own pros and cons, having a stronger bowling attack makes a game relatively easier for all bowlers in the team 

 

As for McGrath, which is what the discussion is about, he actually benefited from playing with Warne. In Tests, w/ Warne is wkts/inning is roughly 2.4, without Warne, it is 2 from the top of the mind recall excluding v BD & Zim 

 

 

 

 

 

 

People do not combine Tests & LOIs as there is also the option to pick the best in each format. 2nd, focusing on tests, when batting at 4-7, batsmen like Lara and Pieterson avg 58, Kallis avgs 45, etc., when McGrath is playing ... And you probably have no idea, what guys like Marshall, Hadlee, etc. have done in subcon in tests 

 

Also note that  McGrath feasted on Eng, NZ, Pak, and WI in the 00s. 84 of his 124 tests are against these 4 teams. Has a relatively poor record against the strongest team of his time - SA

 

McGrath is a good bowler but I would not put him like you described in the title of this thread 

 

Good effort, but hopefully eventually you will get better w/ your analysis! 

 

 

 

You don't your reputation  here ( as an intellectually dishonest troll with a toddler level understanding of the game ) -  any good.

 

Every damn cricketer born on this planet would have a couple of blind spots. Mcgrath has out-bowled Warne  by a massive magnitude in India ( which is supposed to favor Warne and be the toughest test for non-express fast bowlers )

 

Who the hell told you people don't combine Tests and ODIs ? or is it coming from your rear  end ? Ever heard of cricketer of the year awards ?? It is for performance across all formats !

 

Mcgrath's  dominating performance across the planet, across formats, dominating the best of his era ( Lara, SRT) except for an odd innings here and there ,

absolutely super-human performance in ODI finals -collectively puts him in a league of his own.

 

No one is even close - be it Viv, SRT or Warne. 

 

Go on son, run a filter on cricinfo to pull bowlers with most avg deliveries per innings and try and analyze what it means ...LOL

 

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29 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

Is there any doubt about this? At his peak from Jan 1995 till he stepped on the ball in 2005 , he took 489 wickets @ 20.13 and with a Strike rate of 48.6. Owned all the ATG batsmen with the sole exception of maybe Kallis. GOAT test bowler.

 

McGrath has got him out 12 times in both formats. I think lara did better than kallis against mcgrath.

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Posted (edited)
42 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

Is there any doubt about this? At his peak from Jan 1995 till he stepped on the ball in 2005 , he took 489 wickets @ 20.13 and with a Strike rate of 48.6. Owned all the ATG batsmen with the sole exception of maybe Kallis. GOAT test bowler.

 

Then theres the ODI bowler. Great overall stats, rivalling the best and was no.1 bowler for most of 1999-2007. But apart from that you just have to look at the way the 1999 World Cup panned out . He wasnt given the new ball initially and a jaded Australia lost to NZ and Pakistan. But once got the new ball, he wrecked Windies , reduced India to 17/4 with Tendulkar gone to a ferocious lifter from slightly short of a good length. And bowled another great splice jarring spell in the final. 

 

 

 

Quote

 

There are consistent players and then there mavericks who lift their game when the stakes are high. Pidge was both scarily enough.

 

You hit the nail on the head there with the last comment and the earlier stat.

 

Thank you, that brilliantly explains  Mcgrath's super-human performance and consistency and BIG GAME performance. Hated the guy to the core, but boy would have loved to have someone like him in our side when we had the Fab 5.

 

And then you have trolls like @zen,  who just litter every thread with their toddler level understanding of the game.

 

 

 

Edited by rangeelaraja
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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, rangeelaraja said:

You don't your reputation  here ( as an intellectually dishonest troll with a toddler level understanding of the game ) -  any good.


Last thing I need to worry about is what an uncouth junk, who came running for no reason to drag people down to his low level, thinks 

 

2 hours ago, rangeelaraja said:

Every damn cricketer born on this planet would have a couple of blind spots. Mcgrath has out-bowled Warne  by a massive magnitude in India ( which is supposed to favor Warne and be the toughest test for non-express fast bowlers )


It does not change the fact that there are better or equally good fast bowlers in the history of the game … while someone like Warne, along with Murali, is in the league of his own 

 

2 hours ago, rangeelaraja said:

Who the hell told you people don't combine Tests and ODIs ? or is it coming from your rear  end ? Ever heard of cricketer of the year awards ?? It is for performance across all formats !


Test cricket gets the most weightage among cricket fans … the prime format 

 

No one adds test, ODIs and T20 stats in serious discussions (on a comedy thread such as this is it understandable) 

 

 

Btw, if you like what comes out of my rear, I can have it packed and sent it to you. Bon Appetit! 

 

 

2 hours ago, rangeelaraja said:

Mcgrath's  dominating performance across the planet, across formats, dominating the best of his era ( Lara, SRT) except for an odd innings here and there ,

absolutely super-human performance in ODI finals -collectively puts him in a league of his own.


already posted what Lara, etc have done in tests so no point in repeating those ... and points where McGrath has picked up more wkts/inng with Warne playing 

 

2 hours ago, rangeelaraja said:

No one is even close - be it Viv, SRT or Warne. 

 

Go on son, run a filter on cricinfo to pull bowlers with most avg deliveries per innings and try and analyze what it means ...LOL

 


I can put many cricketers above McGrath 

 

 

PS

 

Quote

And then you have trolls like @zen,  who just litter every thread with their toddler level understanding of the game.

 

If clowns like you get trolled on a contrary opinion w/o even me trying, I have nothing to complain 

Edited by zen
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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, zen said:


Last thing I need to worry about is what an uncouth junk, who came running for no reason to drag people down to his low level, thinks 

 


It does not change the fact that there are better or equally good fast bowlers in the history of the game … while someone like Warne, along with Murali, is in the league of his own 

 


Test cricket gets the most weightage among cricket fans … the prime format 

 

No one adds test, ODIs and T20 stats in serious discussions (on a comedy thread such as this is it understandable) 

 

 

Btw, if you like what comes out of my rear, I can have it packed and sent it to you. Bon Appetit! 

 

 


already posted what Lara, etc have done in tests so no point in repeating those ... and points where McGrath has picked up more wkts/inng with Warne playing 

 


I can put many cricketers above McGrath 

 

 

PS

 

 

If clowns like you get trolled on a contrary opinion w/o even me trying, I have nothing to complain 

 

 

Wow...so you were quick to point to an "observation" that Mcgrath " feasted on Eng, NZ, Pak, and WI ( as if NZ, Eng and Pak were very weak in the 00s )   - but when it comes to Murali's hugely lop sided record in Asia vs. outside Asia, he is " in a league of his own"  - no wonder people laugh at you & consider you a POS here. Just BS anything to continue an argument...thats your motto.

 

You are a bonafide clown here, as most of testify, so your idiotic analysis and shi!tty understanding of the game matters squat. 

 

Talking of rear, while most of us were born normally, you seem to have come out of a rear.

Edited by rangeelaraja
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3 minutes ago, rangeelaraja said:

 

 

Wow...so you were quick to point to an "observation" that Mcgrath " feasted on Eng, NZ, Pak, and WI ( as if NZ, Eng and Pak were very weak in the 00s )   - but when it comes to Murali's hugely lop sided record in Asia vs. outside Asia, he is " in a league of his own"  - no wonder people laugh at you & consider you a POS here. Just BS anything to continue an argument...thats your motto.

 

You are a bonafide clown here, as most of testify, so your idiotic analysis and shi!tty understanding of the game matters squat. 

 

Talking of rear, while most of us were born normally, you seem to have come out of a rear.

 

You started this nonsense, but I will end it. I can't refuse an invitation to kick the butt of an uncouth piece of crap like you! :dance:

 

 

Murali comment is beyond your pea sized brain (as you won't even understand how off spinners have performed) 

 

Good to see you try to repeat whatever is said to you. A sign that you have nothing much to give. 

 

 

Let's look at your issue here. You dreamt t that McGrath is whatever, added up LOI + Tests like an old school fool. And then saw my post which immediately crashed your dream ... On top of that you had the stupidity to talk about bowling attack strength when McGrath actually picked up more wkts with Warne 

 

 

Dumbass, you talk about rear a lot. Are you a toilet where we can do our business?

 

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, zen said:

 

You started this nonsense, but I will end it. I can't refuse an invitation to kick the butt of an uncouth piece of crap like you! :dance:

 

 

Murali comment is beyond your pea sized brain (as you won't even understand how off spinners have performed) 

 

Good to see you try to repeat whatever is said to you. A sign that you have nothing much to give. 

 

 

Let's look at your issue here. You dreamt t that McGrath is whatever, added up LOI + Tests like an old school fool. And then saw my post which immediately crashed your dream ... On top of that you had the stupidity to talk about bowling attack strength when McGrath actually picked up more wkts with Warne 

 

 

Dumbass, you talk about rear a lot. Are you a toilet where we can do our business?

 

 

 

You have gotten your butt whopped so many times here , more than  the no of wickets chuklitharan has taken.  Anyone would testify. Want me to call you papa @Laaloo here  to testify this ?

 

An a$$wipe like you does not even understand that there can be great cricketers across formats.

 

Here are the awards to educate your maggot sized brain. Cricketer of the year is across formats. 

 

https://www.icc-cricket.com/media-releases/1956755

 

And as usual you don't have numbers or analysis to back any of your absurd claims - typical of a beaten POS.

 

Your presence on any thread stinks of a rear - what to do ? Since you were born out of one, maybe it is something that will never go away. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by rangeelaraja
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1 minute ago, zen said:

 

You keep repeating what is said to you so I guess the attacks that you made first were also used on you before 

 

As for the analysis, such things have been done and discussed multiple times over the years on the forum ... cricket is not just about bowlers, it has batsmen too ... Also test cricket gets the focus when it comes to identifying ATGs, Smith will be rated higher irrespective of his LOI pursuits as he has been much ahead till this point 

 

 

 

Mcgrath is easily the the top 2 greatest Test fast bowlers of all time because of his global dominance. His performance in crunch moments is unparalleled.

 

Name one cricketer batter or bowler who raises his game to an insane level in crunch moments almost with 100 % certainly like Mcgrath - and back it with facts not just your conjecture.

 

I've hardly ever seen him let Australia down in tight situations.

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Just now, rangeelaraja said:

 

 

Mcgrath is easily the the top 2 greatest Test fast bowlers of all time because of his global dominance. His performance in crunch moments is unparalleled.

 

 

In accurate ... there are better or equally good test bowlers throughout the history of the game 

 

 

Quote

 

Name one cricketer batter or bowler who raises his game to an insane level in crunch moments almost with 100 % certainly like Mcgrath - and back it with facts not just your conjecture.

 

I've hardly ever seen him let Australia down in tight situations.

 

 

I already posted my graph, which already list a name (at the top if you did not get it, and there are others as well)

 

As I said, you are entitled to your opinion. I have no issues if someone thinks x or y is whatever ... you have issues with my opinion and tried to take a panga, which is what this is about now 

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2 minutes ago, zen said:

 

In accurate ... there are better or equally good test bowlers throughout the history of the game 

 

 

 

I already posted my graph, which already list a name (at the top if you did not get it, and there are others as well)

 

As I said, you are entitled to your opinion. I have no issues if someone thinks x or y is whatever ... you have issues with my opinion and tried to take a panga, which is what this is about now 

 

 

You call a table a "graph" ? You must have had an interesting education. LOL

 

If you consider calling out your out of depth and illogical "graph" for what it is as " panga", then stuff it in.  Take it as a panga.

 

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Just now, rangeelaraja said:

 

 

You call a table a "graph" ? You must have had an interesting education. LOL

 

If you consider calling out your out of depth and illogical "graph" for what it is as " panga", then stuff it in.  Take it as a panga.

 

 

There is nothing illogical about anything ... It is the inability to understand basics which you have shown 

 

Below is what I call taking an unnecessary panga:

 

Quote

 

Yeah... when you blindly apply simplistic stats without knowledge of the game or common sense it can lead to funny conclusions.

 

 

 

Then you are dumb enough to write this when McGrath has picked up more wkts/inng when playing with Warne:

 

Quote

Using Wickets per innings stand alone is an ignorant way to do any analysis. It heavily favors bowlers who don’t have other strike bowlers for company. It would also lead to ignorant conclusions that Bhajji might be a better bowler than Akram and Ambrose because of better/similar wicket per innings when the reality is he is no where as close.

 

which I explained it here nicely too Link

 

 

Like a fool, you further went on with:

 

Quote

You don't your reputation  here ( as an intellectually dishonest troll with a toddler level understanding of the game ) -  any good.

 

 

This is definitely a panga. And that too when I do not recall ever engaging with you before so it appears you could be some old ID 

 

 

There is no way anyone is going to tolerate your uncouth behavior ... leave it wherever you come from 

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9 hours ago, Nikola said:

 

McGrath has got him out 12 times in both formats. I think lara did better than kallis against mcgrath.

I stand corrected, then. Lara played a couple of fantastic knocks against Australia with Pidge in the lineup but those knocks stand out simply because McGrath dominated him for the most part imho. 

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1 hour ago, mancalledsting said:

Mcgrath was a fantastic player who I admire greatly. I do feel sometimes he and that Australia were made 'simply unbeatable' with multiple questionable decisions from umpires going their way. 

Spot on, they put so much pressure on umpires and opposition teams by sledging. They got away with it also. Mcgrath was mean SOB on the field but we cannot deny his greatness.

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