Playing 2 spinners “overseas” a concern

[Vijy]

3 hours ago, rkt.india said:

I remember last time in 2018, people were abusing Ashwin left, right and centre and suddenly, he is a messiah. People have such short memories. Anyone who is sitting out is a match winner.

like shastri. Time to bewda to haul his big stomach there and show the openers how to bat and grit it out.

[rkt.india]

On 8/27/2021 at 5:13 AM, Ankit_sharma03 said:

• coz spinners take time to get adapted to foreign conditions. Kumble became a force overseas after 2003 tour down under which like after 10 yrs of of him playing
• They have to adapt to 2 diff balls kookabura n duke which does help them unlike it helps seamers
• during his 1st cycle mostly even our batsman were struggling to put runs on board so dhoni a defensive captain even became more defensive
• our seamers also were struggling so he mostly got set batsman
• not to forget the amount catches we have dropped in last decade or so , he wud have had a 7fer in Sa if not for dropped catches
• He did bowl well in Aus this tour and its no place for finger spinners
• He was also rotated with jaddu a lot which never let him settle
• his own fitness didnt help

 

Its easy to make conclusion that he failed but their are several factors involved and every bowler will have struggles somewhere. Someone like a lyon has struggled in UAE out of all places.

 

We kept playing Ishant who basically struggled everywhere for the longest time and take Pujara who also have struggled overseas apart from Aus , yet we kept playing them. If that kind of consistency was given to Ashwin overseas he wud hve had better numbers but understandable coz spinners role becomes secondary overseas

Kumble's overall record only got worse after 2003. Averaged 32 in SENA countries too. He did get wickets but most of the times they weren't match winning wickets in SENA but by product of someone has to get wickets.

[Ankit_sharma03]

4 hours ago, rkt.india said:

Kumble's overall record only got worse after 2003. Averaged 32 in SENA countries too. He did get wickets but most of the times they weren't match winning wickets in SENA but by product of someone has to get wickets.

reason for higher avg was also coz their was no one at other end, he got wkts also coz no else did but that also means their was no one to keep pressure at other end.

Someone has to get wkts doesnt mean ull get wkts by bowling crap. 

 

15 hours ago, rkt.india said:

I remember last time in 2018, people were abusing Ashwin left, right and centre and suddenly, he is a messiah. People have such short memories. Anyone who is sitting out is a match winner.

Last time ppl also abused KL right left centre and currently he is our highest scorer in the series now

No one can be a messiah but u gotta to try something different if their is an issue also he is a high quality cricketer , players like that shud not be on bench 

 

[rkt.india]

6 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

reason for higher avg was also coz their was no one at other end, he got wkts also coz no else did but that also means their was no one to keep pressure at other end.

Someone has to get wkts doesnt mean ull get wkts by bowling crap. 

 

Last time ppl also abused KL right left centre and currently he is our highest scorer in the series now

No one can be a messiah but u gotta to try something different if their is an issue also he is a high quality cricketer , players like that shud not be on bench 

 

KL had overseas 100s before. It was his first English tour as well.

 

Kumble never bowled crap. Even when he didn't get wickets. You aren't getting wickets doesn't always mean you are bowling crap but maybe just doesn't have the skills to pick wickets in all conditions.

Edited August 31, 2021 by rkt.india

[Ankit_sharma03]

9 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

KL had overseas 100s before. It was his first English tour as well.

Ashwin has been bowling  well in county and has enough experience of it now and did well in aus recently a place where lyon himself avg 32 ..he avg 28 in that series . Also Ashwin won series in WI overseas btw also that also happens with duke balls. He did well in WTC 

 

Our 2nd highest scorer this series Rohit has been a disaster overseas to say the least . If a players skills a different but Ashwin is an ATG 

 

What happened on last tour doesnt matter much in present circumstances . No better xample then kohli whose 3 england tours has been opposite to his last ones. 

We have backed guys like pujara, rohit come good overseas with god knows how many plenty chances...ashwin deserves same . 

Edited August 31, 2021 by Ankit_sharma03

[Jay]

13 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

reason for higher avg was also coz their was no one at other end, he got wkts also coz no else did but that also means their was no one to keep pressure at other end.

Someone has to get wkts doesnt mean ull get wkts by bowling crap. 

 

Last time ppl also abused KL right left centre and currently he is our highest scorer in the series now

No one can be a messiah but u gotta to try something different if their is an issue also he is a high quality cricketer , players like that shud not be on bench 

 

KL should be in the middle man not opener. 

 

Look what a few changes did to England. Malan 28 averaging fodder now scored a 50 last game. Haseeb. Etc. 

 

Even in odi he looks so much better in MO. 

 

We need an opener. Pujara and rohit or try eeshwaran. Eeshwaran has tight technique. Won't happen i know. 

[Ankit_sharma03]

13 minutes ago, Jay said:

KL should be in the middle man not opener. 

 

Look what a few changes did to England. Malan 28 averaging fodder now scored a 50 last game. Haseeb. Etc. 

 

Even in odi he looks so much better in MO. 

 

We need an opener. Pujara and rohit or try eeshwaran. Eeshwaran has tight technique. Won't happen i know. 

yea KL will do well in middle but then their are many issues , thats for ahead

For this series lets not change what is working

 

TM has no faith in easwaran so they wont look at him, but may be their is some truth to him not being in form as he hasnt played regulalr cricket due to pandemic so a player can loose form in such times easily.

 

Pujara if he bats like pujara which he hasnt, he has been hanging his bat out of off stump, misjudginig lengths.

[Jay]

1 hour ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

yea KL will do well in middle but then their are many issues , thats for ahead

For this series lets not change what is working

 

TM has no faith in easwaran so they wont look at him, but may be their is some truth to him not being in form as he hasnt played regulalr cricket due to pandemic so a player can loose form in such times easily.

 

Pujara if he bats like pujara which he hasnt, he has been hanging his bat out of off stump, misjudginig lengths.

Actually very good point about no domestic circjrt. Totally forgot. Omg that explains why we are struggling so much. English players all had access to county. 

 

Will indian youngsters suffer due to lack of domestic cricket next year as well you feel? 

[Ankit_sharma03]

26 minutes ago, Jay said:

Actually very good point about no domestic circjrt. Totally forgot. Omg that explains why we are struggling so much. English players all had access to county. 

 

Will indian youngsters suffer due to lack of domestic cricket next year as well you feel? 

 

Domestic schedule is announced hopefully 3rd wave doesnt impact Ranji

If it does then our Red ball cricket will be affected , top 25 players will have international practice but the supply chain wud be affected

[SRT100]

42 minutes ago, Jay said:

Actually very good point about no domestic circjrt. Totally forgot. Omg that explains why we are struggling so much. English players all had access to county. 

 

Will indian youngsters suffer due to lack of domestic cricket next year as well you feel? 

 

Despite all that, India's reason for not leading the Test series at this stage is due to Kohli picking the wrong Test line up.

 

India actually have the players available that can win us the series.

[zen]

Good to see Ind using its pace attack well ... As it should, spin is not being missed ... Lesson learned well from the WTC final debacle!

[zen]

Ashwin so far in SA 2021 -> Avg 45, SR 96 versus a relatively inexperienced batting unit (pretty much at how I rate Indian spinners post 1990)!

 

No rank turners (pitches turned into garbage), no honey 

Edited January 4, 2022 by zen

[Vijy]

8 hours ago, zen said:

Ashwin so far in SA 2021 -> Avg 45, SR 96 versus a relatively inexperienced batting unit (pretty much at how I rate Indian spinners post 1990)!

 

No rank turners (pitches turned into garbage), no honey 

it will continue to balloon further.

[Trichromatic]

10 hours ago, zen said:

Ashwin so far in SA 2021 -> Avg 45, SR 96 versus a relatively inexperienced batting unit (pretty much at how I rate Indian spinners post 1990)!

 

No rank turners (pitches turned into garbage), no honey 

Which rank turner did he get in Aus? 

[Trichromatic]

On 9/6/2021 at 11:48 PM, zen said:

Good to see Ind using its pace attack well ... As it should, spin is not being missed ... Lesson learned well from the WTC final debacle!

 

Doesn't matter. Ashwin as a player kept India in game with bat. 

[zen]

Zero impact in the 4th inning as well versus an inexperienced batting line up … Indian spinners post 1990 are probably one of the worst set of cricketers ever to step on the cricket field 

[Vijy]

moral of the story should be that 0 spinners should play in SA as and when needed (i.e., horses for courses).

[Lord]

best bowler of the innings.It's the pacers who leaked runs 

[Clarke]

On 1/6/2022 at 11:16 PM, Vijy said:

moral of the story should be that 0 spinners should play in SA as and when needed (i.e., horses for courses).

 

Can that be determined accurately ? Ashwin has had first innings success in Eng & SA on the odd track while proving less effective on 4th/5th day on other tracks.

 

If our analytics team able to predict track performance with such precision, it makes sense to follow the approach, although that agility isn't seen with respect to our selections. 

Edited January 8, 2022 by Clarke

[Vijy]

5 hours ago, Clarke said:

 

Can that be determined accurately ? Ashwin has had first innings success in Eng & SA on the odd track while proving less effective on 4th/5th day on other tracks.

 

If our analytics team able to predict track performance with such precision, it makes sense to follow the approach, although that agility isn't seen with respect to our selections. 

I agree that prediction isn't an exact science, but in some pitches it's reasonably evident IMO. Both "express bowling" and I had speculated that Ashwin would be more effective in 3rd test than 2nd test, even before 2nd test had begun.

 

Again, let me reiterate that one can be wrong in some cases.