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" Seniority " over " Current Ability ", as the main selection criterion, is preventing Team India from realizing its true potential

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On 11/28/2021 at 10:37 AM, putrevus said:

Thakur will play in most overseas tests as you need four fast bowlers. 

Why this sudden need for fast bowlers?

 

Play the  dear spinners - spin trio, spin quartet, spinning pitch, spin helping ball, opening the bowling with spinners etc etc etc whatever....

 

As soon as we step out - Fast bowlers ... Where art thou?

 

I mean dance with the players who have made India and who India has made - SPINNERS!

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22 hours ago, AKane said:

Why this sudden need for fast bowlers?

 

Play the  dear spinners - spin trio, spin quartet, spinning pitch, spin helping ball, opening the bowling with spinners etc etc etc whatever....

 

As soon as we step out - Fast bowlers ... Where art thou?

 

I mean dance with the players who have made India and who India has made - SPINNERS!

What??

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29 minutes ago, putrevus said:

What??

Oh I am just trying to point out the aspiring great teams of past

 

Aus 1970's depended on fast bowlers Lillee and Thommo inside and outside Aus

Windies 1980's/90's depended on fast bowlers inside and outside WI

Aus 2000s depended on McGrath Gillespie Lee and Warne everywhere.

 

Same with Lindwall/Miller or Trueman/Statham

 

 

India are the only ones who coddle and reward spinners at home but expect fast bowlers to pick up slack abroad. Let he who is coddled at home(spinners) do the work abroad too.....Is it unfair to expect that?

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11 minutes ago, AKane said:

Oh I am just trying to point out the aspiring great teams of past

 

Aus 1970's depended on fast bowlers Lillee and Thommo inside and outside Aus

Windies 1980's/90's depended on fast bowlers inside and outside WI

Aus 2000s depended on McGrath Gillespie Lee and Warne everywhere.

 

Same with Lindwall/Miller or Trueman/Statham

 

 

India are the only ones who coddle and reward spinners at home but expect fast bowlers to pick up slack abroad. Let he who is coddled at home(spinners) do the work abroad too.....Is it unfair to expect that?

I think they are changing that under Kohli as fast bowlers are playing important role at home also but you would still expect majority of work to be done by spinners at home.It comes down to  nature of the wickets and using homefield advatange.

 

I agree our spinners are coddled at home by the same token we can say other teams expect their spinners to pickup the slack when playing in India,Guy like Wagner could not find a spot but guy like Somerville played both tests.

 

Thats why I disagree when anyone compares Indian fast bowlers to those 1980s WI fast bowlers.Even Australian played two spinners when playing in India but WI rarely played even one spinner at their Zenith in India. It was fearsome foursome all the way for WI.

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We are on the verge of losing a golden opportunity ... of defeating SA in SA for the first time ever ... primarily because we chose to promote seniority over current ability and form, as far as our batting was concerned.

 

We may never get a SA team which is as weak as this one.

 

Even with Dravid as the coach, nothing seems to have changed 

 

 

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24 minutes ago, express bowling said:

We are on the verge of losing a golden opportunity ... of defeating SA in SA for the first time ever ... primarily because we chose to promote seniority over current ability and form, as far as our batting was concerned.

 

We may never get a SA team which is as weak as this one.

 

Even with Dravid as the coach, nothing seems to have changed 

 

 

 

I knew the moment that Pujara and Rahane played their once in a year innings in the 2nd Test in the 2nd innings which in the end was a meaningless contribution due to a heavy roller used in the morning, that India were doomed to retain them for the 3rd.

 

Probably have to wait another 3-4 years for this frontier to be breached.

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53 minutes ago, express bowling said:

We are on the verge of losing a golden opportunity ... of defeating SA in SA for the first time ever ... primarily because we chose to promote seniority over current ability and form, as far as our batting was concerned.

 

We may never get a SA team which is as weak as this one.

 

Even with Dravid as the coach, nothing seems to have changed 

 

 

 

I actually feel like none of the players truly cares for the result more than fans like us. Whether it is team management, former players or commentators, everyone involved and influential in team selection matters only cares about ensuring the seniors are given a long career and they have each others backs. 

 

Most cricketers have a shelf life that is less than 10 years. There are very few exceptions like Tendulkar, Dravid, Kapil Dev and Gavaskar who are able to perform beyond that. Even great players like Sehwag and Laxman were not given this long rope that mediocre players like Pujara and Rahane have been given.

 

But it seems like other than a handful of truly Indian cricket lovers who only care about team results, others are only interested in idol worship. So we have Kohli fans, Pujara fans, Dhoni fans and Sachin fans who don't care how the team performs as long as their favorite player does well. 

 

It disappoints me no end when despite having a better team we keep losing these games due to selection policy based on seniority rather than merit. 

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12 hours ago, express bowling said:

We are on the verge of losing a golden opportunity ... of defeating SA in SA for the first time ever ... primarily because we chose to promote seniority over current ability and form, as far as our batting was concerned.

 

We may never get a SA team which is as weak as this one.

 

Even with Dravid as the coach, nothing seems to have changed 

 

 

things have changed under dravid: amplified backing of non-performing nos. 3-5, increased emphasis on trundling, decreased emphasis on fitness and fielding, etc. Dravid is taking us back to the decade he knows best - the 90s.

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This isnt a new phenomenon in India cricket. Dhoni was crucified for 8-0 loss test loss against Eng and Aus but the bottom line was openers, sachin and vvs had to be carried through both the series. Rahul was the one man standing. He along with VVS saw the writing on wall and retired. Sachin should have joined them but went on for 2 more years. 

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11 minutes ago, jf1gp_1 said:

This isnt a new phenomenon in India cricket. Dhoni was crucified for 8-0 loss test loss against Eng and Aus but the bottom line was openers, sachin and vvs had to be carried through both the series. Rahul was the one man standing. He along with VVS saw the writing on wall and retired. Sachin should have joined them but went on for 2 more years. 

 

 

What you are saying is true. 

 

Almost every Indian superstar, after Gavaskar, stayed on for a longer period than their form warranted. 

 

That is not a professional approach and I don't support it.

 

But we have a bigger problem now in that ... even sub 40 averaging mediocre players like Rahane are getting the same unfair favour that only super duper achievers got earlier.  Even mediocre bowlers like Ishant are getting too long a rope and above average guys like Pujara are getting the same super treatment. 

 

If we have a team with 4 or 5 aging passengers, how will we reach our full potential !!

 

 

Edited by express bowling
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4 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

What you are saying is true. 

 

Almost every Indian superstar, after Gavaskar, stayed on for a longer period than their form warranted. 

 

That is not a professional approach and I don't support it.

 

But we have a bigger problem now in that ... even sub 40 averaging mediocre players like Rahane are getting the same unfair favour that only super duper achievers got earlier.  Even mediocre bowlers like Ishant are getting too long a rope and above average guys like Pujara are getting the same super treatment. 

 

If we have a team with 4 or 5 aging passengers, how will we reach our full potential !!

 

We always been a team were you had question mark on few senior players. Lets assume both Rahane and Pujara are dropped, next in line would be Virat, Rohit and Ashwin. Our problem is not aging players our problem is we dont use them to groom team. 

 

Someone had posted we should play one of Rahane/Pujara and develop a middle order batsman which is the right way to move forward. 

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12 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

What you are saying is true. 

 

Almost every Indian superstar, after Gavaskar, stayed on for a longer period than their form warranted. 

 

That is not a professional approach and I don't support it.

 

But we have a bigger problem now in that ... even sub 40 averaging mediocre players like Rahane are getting the same unfair favour that only super duper achievers got earlier.  Even mediocre bowlers like Ishant are getting too long a rope and above average guys like Pujara are getting the same super treatment. 

 

If we have a team with 4 or 5 aging passengers, how will we reach our full potential !!

 

 

I think Ganguly did not drag it either. He lost form like Pujara or Kohli, lost his place , came back for an year and half, performed at a relatively high level and then moved out after restoring his pride.

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3 minutes ago, jf1gp_1 said:

 

We always been a team were you had question mark on few senior players. Lets assume both Rahane and Pujara are dropped, next in line would be Virat, Rohit and Ashwin. Our problem is not aging players our problem is we dont use them to groom team. 

 

Someone had posted we should play one of Rahane/Pujara and develop a middle order batsman which is the right way to move forward. 

 

 

Why play one among Rahane / Pujara ?

 

Both are failing.

 

Young batsmen have regularly put in in better performances than this duo in the last 18 months, whenever they have got chances.

 

Rohit. Kohli and Rahul will be playing as senior batters to groom the young batters anyway. 

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Problem in kohlis tenure unlike even in Dhoni's time when like the former he also came to eventually be despised for his red ball captaincy is that he wasn't myopic and groomed players who he knew and trusted in to represent the team for the next 5-7 years at least and we reaped those rewards after 2015. I don't see any indication of that right now and it means we have a period of transition foisted on us because of bad to non existent succession planning and a desire to keep persisting with the seniors well beyond the time when it's clear to everyone that they should be put out to pasture. 

Since covid there has been no red ball domestic cricket and that also hasn't helped but still.  

Edited by rollingstoned
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15 minutes ago, rollingstoned said:

Problem in kohlis tenure unlike even in Dhoni's time when like the former he also came to be despised for his red ball captaincy is that he wasn't myopic and groomed players who he knew and trusted in to represent the team for the next 5-7 years at least and we reaped those rewards after 2015. I don't see any indication of that right now and it means we have a period of transition foisted on us because of bad to non existent succession planning and a desire to keep persisting with the seniors well beyond the time when it's clear to everyone that they should be put out to pasture. 

Since covid there has been no red ball domestic cricket and that also hasn't helped but still.  

 

Lack of clear vision, and hence an effective succession.plan, is a big issue.

 

Batsmen who may have the game to succeed, both away and at home, are not being promoted.

 

Washington Sundar may be one such batsman, but not sure whether he will be played as a batsman.

Edited by express bowling
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2 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

 

What you are saying is true. 

 

Almost every Indian superstar, after Gavaskar, stayed on for a longer period than their form warranted. 

 

That is not a professional approach and I don't support it.

 

But we have a bigger problem now in that ... even sub 40 averaging mediocre players like Rahane are getting the same unfair favour that only super duper achievers got earlier.  Even mediocre bowlers like Ishant are getting too long a rope and above average guys like Pujara are getting the same super treatment. 

 

If we have a team with 4 or 5 aging passengers, how will we reach our full potential !!

 

 

cricket has only 4-5 real contenders (the rest are also-rans like WI, Bang, Zim, etc), so it's not so "important" to reach full potential from the perspective of BCCI. as long as their cash cow, the IPL, continues to rake in money, sponsors, and tailunt, they won't give a damn about int'l events.

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