Israeli settlers in Occupied Palestine

[mishra]

@zenAre you getting paid for spreading fake narrative? Or is it your new venture

 

 

PS: I am not clicking on those videos you are posting because, I dont want to confuse google that I am terror sympathiser

[zen]

 

 

[mishra]

I have a Muslim collegue of mine, His family is originally from Pakistan, second Gen British. Supports whats happening in Bangladesh (anti Hasina) and pro Gaza.

 

So one day, He was going on and on about how world is so busy in Ukraine when nothing is happening there but How bad situation in Gaza is.

 

I asked him why dont they release the hostages?

His answer was "If they release, Israelis will hit them even Harder and indescriminately".

I asked him, "On what basis he is concluding this because before Oct 7, Fact remains that Israelis were not sending tanks and bombing Gaza "

As expected, He had no answer

Edited November 19, 2024 by mishra

[mishra]

Quote

“It really depends on what Israel means by the elimination of Hamas,” said Walid Seyam, a Palestinian political analyst based in South Africa. 

“If they mean clipping the nails of the organization and draining their military capabilities so that they cannot launch rockets again, then the answer is yes. If they mean a complete elimination of Hamas, then the answer is a definite no,” he argued.

The reason for this, says Seyam, is Hamas’ social activity that is deeply ingrained in Palestinian society.

Thats not Israeli saying. Thats from Hamas itself. Everyone in Gaza is Hamas, If thats the case, How can they be classed as innocent civilians?

[zen]

26 minutes ago, mishra said:

@zenAre you getting paid for spreading fake narrative? Or is it your new venture

 

 

PS: I am not clicking on those videos you are posting because, I dont want to confuse google that I am terror sympathiser

I started this thread in 2021 (check the OP) when I became aware of Israeli brutality (terror) in Palestine. In 2024, it has been elevated to genocide.

The region has been held hostage by the Zionist desire to occupy more land (no one is asking to take away Israeli lands). Israel (extremists) through its discriminating policies is encouraging hostile action against it which it uses to further eliminate the opposing forces. 
 

[zen]

10 minutes ago, mishra said:

Thats not Israeli saying. Thats from Hamas itself. Everyone in Gaza is Hamas, If thats the case, How can they be classed as innocent civilians?

Palestinians are fighting an occupying force with their hands tied behind their backs. Palestine is in a handicap match with Israel which receives billions of dollars in aid from the likes of the US (influenced by the Zionist lobby). 
 

India’s freedom struggle had both Bhagat Singh, Bose, etc., and Gandhi, Nehru, etc. Same is the case with Palestine in its struggle.

 

To fight the occuping force and gain freedom to establish its country is probably every Palestinian’s goal. How that is channeled depends upon individuals. 
 

That is probably what Hamas means that’ Israel can kill its military wing but not the desire in its people to fight these occupiers to gain freedom. 

Israel here is the bigger terrorist.
 

 

[zen]

1 hour ago, mishra said:

I asked him why dont they release the hostages?

His answer was "If they release, Israelis will hit them even Harder and indescriminately".

I asked him, "On what basis he is concluding this because before Oct 7, Fact remains that Israelis were not sending tanks and bombing Gaza "

As expected, He had no answer

You should NOT make it a Muslim v Others as it makes you fall into a narrative trap. 
 

Israel itself holds 1,000s of Palestinian hostages in its prisons (many just thrown in without a charge and abused in prisons). Many times Israel and Hamas have exchanged “hostages”.  Just in last 12 months, illegal Israeli settlers killed like 700 Palestinians in the West Bank.

Israel has bombed Gaza many times including in 2021 (The Gaza War). 
 

The issue here is that Israel is the occupying force so it keeps working unilaterally to silence Palestinians cause. It shies away from discussing the two-state solution, and works to disadvantage Palestinians to ask for their state (taken discussions basically off the table). Only way for Palestinians to fight is through protest and violence esp. with the extremist in power in Israel.  Ironically, it is the Israeli response (used to acting with impunity) to Oct 7 that has brought the Palestinian cause back on the table with more and more countries now supporting Palestine.
 

The current genocide is a part of a plan to resettle Gaza, using Oct 7 as an excuse. The extremist in Israel even dream of the “Greater Israel”.
 

Many people in Israel are protesting against Nethanyahu for not caring about the hostages. Even if the hostages are released, Israel is not going to vacate the Palestinian territories. Palestine does not want to remain in status quo.

 

The issue is much larger. The conflict is about Israel wanting to continue to occupy Palestinians lands, while the Palestinians wanting to free its land under Israel’s occupation. Other activities take place under the influence of this root cause.

 

Edited November 19, 2024 by zen

[mishra]

7 minutes ago, zen said:

You should NOT make it a Muslim v Others as it makes you fall into a narrative trap. 
 

Israel itself holds 1,000s of Palestinian hostages in its prisons. Many times Israel and Hamas have exchanged “hostages”.  Just in last 12 months, illegal Israeli settlers killed like 700 Palestinians in the West Bank. 

Israel has bombed Gaza many times including in 2021 (The Gaza War). 
 

The issue here is that Israel is the occupying force so it keeps working unilaterally to silence Palestinians cause. Only way for Palestinians to fight is through violence esp. with the extremist in power in Israel. 
 

The current genocide is a part of a plan to resettle Gaza, using Oct 7 as an excuse. 
 

Even people in Israel are protesting against Nethanyahu for not caring about the hostages. Even if the hostages are released, Israel is not going to vacate the Palestinian territories.

 

The issue is much larger. The conflict is about Israel wanting to occupy Palestinians lands to increase its territory, while the Palestinians wanting to free its land. Other activities take place under the influence of this root cause.

 

OK. The use of term "settler" is incorrect.

 

Bharat that includes Indus plains is Land of Hindus

USA is land Native Indians

Judaih and Sumeriah is the land of Jews,

Iran is land of Zorashtrian

Greeks has many gods and Goddeses before Christinity arrived. But If Christinity wouldnt have converted them all, I would support followers of Olympus to have a place in present day Greece.

Australia is land of Aborigines

Canada is land of Indigeneous Meitis Inuits

 

 

If you look at history, Its Islam and Christianity which wants complete anhilation of Natives their religion custom and tradition. Either kick them out or convert them.  However Christianity made Peace after world war II. They accepted the indegenous people and their rights. But Islam is still living in medivel age.

 

Its not letting Jews to have their land or Zorashtrian to enter their land or Hindus to live in their land.

 

 

 

 

[zen]

40 minutes ago, mishra said:

OK. The use of term "settler" is incorrect.

 

Bharat that includes Indus plains is Land of Hindus

USA is land Native Indians

Judaih and Sumeriah is the land of Jews,

Iran is land of Zorashtrian

Greeks has many gods and Goddeses before Christinity arrived. But If Christinity wouldnt have converted them all, I would support followers of Olympus to have a place in present day Greece.

Australia is land of Aborigines

Canada is land of Indigeneous Meitis Inuits

 

 

If you look at history, Its Islam and Christianity which wants complete anhilation of Natives their religion custom and tradition. Either kick them out or convert them.  However Christianity made Peace after world war II. They accepted the indegenous people and their rights. But Islam is still living in medivel age.

 

Its not letting Jews to have their land or Zorashtrian to enter their land or Hindus to live in their land.

 

 

 

 

“Settlers” is the word universally used as Israelis illegally settle in Palestine. By international laws, such settlements are not allowed.

 

If you want to talk about history, the Zionist (Jews who wanted a Jewish land, turning Judaism into a nationalist movement) shortlisted three countries  - Argentina, Uganda (Kenya) and Palestine (Thankfully, India was not on that list). Initially Uganda (not Palestine) is said to be chosen but Christians have said to have opposed that. Working with the British, Palestine, which was under British occupation, was chosen. With the support of rich powerful Jewish families, Zionists began to settle in Palestine. The relatively nomad Arabs were not much of a resistance (much like people in India were not for the British). Zionists started with collective farms and now control the whole Palestine. 
 

It is good to discuss history but it is irreverent to the currently status where Israel and Palestine, with established positions through international involvement (they know about history), need to work for the two-state solution! 

 

Edited November 19, 2024 by zen

[mishra]

48 minutes ago, zen said:

“Settlers” is the word universally used as Israelis illegally settle in Palestine. By international laws, such settlements are not allowed.

 

If you want to talk about history, the Zionist (Jews who wanted a Jewish land, turning Judaism into a nationalist movement) shortlisted three countries  - Argentina, Uganda (Kenya) and Palestine (Thankfully, India was not on that list). Initially Uganda (not Palestine) is said to be chosen but Christians have said to have opposed that. Working with the British, Palestine, which was under British occupation, was chosen. With the support of rich powerful Jewish families, Zionists began to settle in Palestine. The relatively nomad Arabs were not much of a resistance (much like people in India were not for the British). Zionists started with collective farms and now control the whole Palestine. 
 

It is good to discuss history but it is irreverent to the currently status where Israel and Palestine, with established positions through international involvement (they know about history), need to work for the two-state solution! 

 

Nah, That arguement doesnt flies.

 

Land of Jews is Judea and Samaria which is present day Israel. Kenya Argentina Uganada whatever isnt Land of Jews.

 

 

But then again, you find equivalence in Hamas terrorists and terror planners arrested imprisoned all across world as Hostage. May god help you.

[zen]

13 minutes ago, mishra said:

Nah, That arguement doesnt flies.

 

Land of Jews is Judea and Samaria which is present day Israel. Kenya Argentina Uganada whatever isnt Land of Jews.

 

But then again, you find equivalence in Hamas terrorists and terror planners arrested imprisoned all across world as Hostage. May god help you.

Note that “Judea and Samaria” are in the West Bank, which is not considered Israel (it is Palestine or occupied Palestine).

 

Btw, I talked about Palestinians in Israeli jails held without charge, as collateral and so on (they form a large percentage). Palestinians cannot even arrest Israelis including IDF terrorists with war crimes (with a charge). Thankfully, the international community is raising its voice on behalf of Palestine!

 

PS

 

 

 

Edited November 19, 2024 by zen

[mishra]

10 minutes ago, zen said:

Note that “Judea and Samaria” are in the West Bank, which is not considered Israel (it is Palestine or occupied Palestine).

 

Btw, I talked about Palestinians in Israeli jails held without charge, as collateral and so on (they form a large percentage). Palestinians cannot even arrest Israelis including IDF terrorists with war crimes (with a charge). Thankfully, the international community is raising its voice on behalf of Palestine!

 

 

 

So Israel needs  to get even more territory. Modern day Christian followers cant tell their kids that they either killed all the Jews , enslaved them or sold the Jew slave of the region because of crucification of their Gods son Jesus

[mishra]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tribe_of_Judah

[zen]

3 minutes ago, mishra said:

 

 

So Israel needs  to get even more territory. Modern day Christian followers cant tell their kids that they either killed all the Jews , enslaved them or sold the Jew slave of the region because of crucification of their Gods son Jesus

By taking a different route, at least, now you are beginning to understand the Israeli extremists’ game - the quest for “Greater Israel”, which includes parts in Lebanon, Egypt, Jordan, and maybe even Saudi Arabia. Soon you will also understand the Israeli propaganda against Palestinians.

 

 

 

 

[Mariyam]

@zen ( urf Rett) vs @mishra (urf Mishragreat) used to be legendary ICF debates in the Sachin vs Viv Richards type topics.

 

Now you guys are arguing over Israel Palestine

Edited November 19, 2024 by Mariyam

[zen]

1 minute ago, Mariyam said:

@zen ( urf Rett) vs @mishra (urf Mishragreat) used to be legendary ICF debates in the Sachin vs Viv Richards type topics.

 

Now you guys are arguing over Israel Palestine

Not necessarily arguing just seeing a conflict from different angles!

[mishra]

1 minute ago, Mariyam said:

@zen ( urf Rett) vs @mishra (urf Mishragreat) used to be legendary ICF debates in the Sachin vs Viv Richards type topics.

 

Now you guys are arguing over Israel Palestine

Will come back when Kohli retires

[mishra]

6 minutes ago, zen said:

By taking a different route, at least, now you are beginning to understand the Israeli extremists’ game - the quest for “Greater Israel”, which includes parts in Lebanon, Egypt, Jordan, and maybe even Saudi Arabia. Soon you will also understand the Israeli propaganda against Palestinians.

 

 

 

 

So now you recognise that land belonged to Jews.

[zen]

6 minutes ago, mishra said:

So now you recognise that land belonged to Jews.

I have not said that Jews did not live here.  But that it is irrelevant to the current status. 

 

Region has gone through several changes over the years. Arabs have lived there too for centuries. 
 

It is like someone talking about Akhand Bharat based on remote past (but that is for domestic audience as these guys can’t even put up their hand for Hindus in BD). I have already posted on the comical nature of such thinking!

 

 

Edited November 19, 2024 by zen

[mishra]

7 minutes ago, zen said:

Not necessarily arguing just seeing a conflict from different angles!

You made incorrect assessment then, You made incorrect assessment now. Difference is, Outy @outsider was with you. WOnder where did he go after killing of that Communist guy. he made a brief appearnce but he is gone. I can only prey he has good life. Genius