Israeli settlers in Occupied Palestine

[zen]

1 minute ago, mishra said:

You made incorrect assessment then, You made incorrect assessment now. Difference is, Outy @outsider was with you. WOnder where did he go after killing of that Communist guy. he made a brief appearnce but he is gone. I can only prey he has good life. Genius 

what incorrect assessment?  

[zen]

@mishra

 

I posted the below some time ago on this thread:

 

When it comes to India, many comically assume parallels b/w Israel and India where:

 

Zionists = Hindus 

Palestinians = Muslims 

Lebanon, Jordan, etc. = Pakistan, BD, etc. 

Greater Israel = Akhand Bharat  

 

This is where the support for extremism in Israel comes in because since nothing happens in India, the events in Israel are probably seen as a visualization of these folks’ what if …” world.

 

In the real world, there are no strong parallels.

 

 

Edited November 19, 2024 by zen

[mishra]

5 minutes ago, zen said:

@mishra

 

I posted the below some time ago on this thread:

 

When it comes to India, many comically assume parallels b/w Israel and India where:

 

Zionists = Hindus 

Palestinians = Muslims 

Lebanon, Jordan, etc. = Pakistan, BD, etc. 

Greater Israel = Akhand Bharat  

 

This is where the support for extremism in Israel comes in because since nothing happens in India, the events in Israel are probably seen as a visualization of these folks’ what if …” world.

 

In the real world, there are no strong parallels.

 

 

See, Every community has a Superiority Complex. For example Hindus see having glorious past, Han Chinese having glorious past. Jews see having glorious past. They use it to mobilise society and develop them. Followers of Islam had glorious past that too just couple of hundreds years .

 

However Fact is

 

Christians are only ones having glorious present.

Han Chinese worked hard caught up or nearly there compared to Christian.

Hindus and Jews are catching up

 

  But followers of Islam are special case.  Just few hundred years back they converted Constantinpole to Istanbul beating Christianity, But now they are farthest behind in all field. If it wasnt Americans, they would be still selling Dates and riding Horse and Camel. They can not accept it that the Christians are ones who went far ahead. Now they see Hans going ahead. Jews Going ahead, Hindus going ahead. Everything is seen as loss to their community and thinking.  Gap between them and rest keeps increasing. Sooner or later, Voices within them will start questioning attraction and viabilty of ideology.

 

Hence they come together. its last Hurrah before decline.

 

Now you can put variables in your above equation and redo them

[zen]

3 minutes ago, mishra said:

Hence they come together. its last Hurrah before decline.

Good speculation but it does not change the current status where both Palestine and Israel need to exist.

 

I am not for Israel v Palestine but for Israel and Palestine and currently it is Israel that is the roadblock with extremist in charge. 
 

Netanyahu reminds me of Hitler to some degree. 

[mishra]

7 minutes ago, zen said:

Good speculation but it does not change the current status where both Palestine and Israel need to exist.

 

I am not for Israel v Palestine but for Israel and Palestine and currently it is Israel that is the roadblock with extremist in charge. 
 

Netanyahu reminds me of Hitler to some degree. 

Its not speculation. I have put this very same view of Speririority Complex to my Muslim friends who i think can objectively discuss the topic. It comes from them that a course correction is must. Ideology worked in medivel ages. World has mooved on. It doesnt work anymore. As per them, They either adapt or risk perishing.

[zen]

If Palestine is able to gain “independence”, below are some of the points that it would consider (from the top of the mind):

 

a) Islamic v Secular 

That Israel is a Jewish state would encourage Palestine to be Islamic. However, I would prefer if it chose to be secular as Palestine has been home to various religions. Three religions claim Jerusalem as a holy site so it makes sense to remain secular. 
 

b) Illegal Israeli settlers 

They should ideally be deported (as they came in with hostile intentions). Their settlements should be allocated to Palestinians, which will create revenues for the govt as well through sale of the properties. 
 

c) West Bank & Gaza connections

Open up transportation link including via road b/w the two areas. Have international airport in East Jerusalem or nearby area and in Gaza. Develop a major commercial port at Gaza. Gaza has a potential to become the Rivera of the region. 

d) Currency - Shekel or Dinar 

Maybe go with the Dinar in a planned manner, while allowing the use of other currencies.

e) Economy 

Initially will need to be focused on tourism, agriculture, fishing, and niche manufacturing (relative cost advantage). It can serve as distribution hub (cost advantage) for products going to Egypt, Israel, and Jordan. The construction sector will see a boom because of widespread destruction. It can also develop its arts and entertainment sector. 

 
f) Military 

Have a limited military for border and security purpose. And/or allow NATO to have a small base.

 

g) Eduction

There is a potential to reform its education system to the latest standards. Many Palestinians go overseas for higher education so they can leverage on that information to create a good education system. 

 

 

[zen]

Amputation without anaesthesia:

 

 

 

[zen]

Comedians take on Israel, which is spending tons of $$$ on social media to repair the damage to its image:

 

 

 

[zen]

Just now, Vicks57 said:

 

This CJ Werleman is a weirdo. A grifter.

 

He used to be fully anti-Islam and then switched it up for grifting 

Could be. I am looking at the “comedians” in his video not his opinion. 

[zen]

 

[zen]

 

[zen]

https://youtu.be/zBRidGEpwnc?feature=shared

[zen]

Good to see at least a few kids receiving treatment overseas:

 

 

 

[zen]

 

Edited November 21, 2024 by zen

[zen]

An MP being removed for speaking against Netanyahu’s policies - described him as “a serial killer of peace”: 

 

 

Nov 20 is celebrated as World Children’s Day. Since Oct 2023, over 17k children are said to be killed by Israel in Gaza.

Edited November 21, 2024 by zen

[Alam_dar]

On 11/19/2024 at 11:08 AM, mishra said:

OK. The use of term "settler" is incorrect.

 

Bharat that includes Indus plains is Land of Hindus

USA is land Native Indians

Judaih and Sumeriah is the land of Jews,

Iran is land of Zorashtrian

Greeks has many gods and Goddeses before Christinity arrived. But If Christinity wouldnt have converted them all, I would support followers of Olympus to have a place in present day Greece.

Australia is land of Aborigines

Canada is land of Indigeneous Meitis Inuits

 

We are all human beings.
I do not believe that any particular land should belong exclusively to one religion or race. Such thinking reflects a narrow mindset and reduces the world to a "law of the jungle," where "might makes right." For instance, while you might advocate for giving Palestine to Israel, you would never consider returning the United States to Native Americans

 

 

 

 

On 11/19/2024 at 11:08 AM, mishra said:

If you look at history, Its Islam and Christianity which wants complete anhilation of Natives their religion custom and tradition. Either kick them out or convert them.  However Christianity made Peace after world war II. They accepted the indegenous people and their rights. But Islam is still living in medivel age.

 

More or less, but this is a human nature. 

One time, Hindus also blamed Buddhists the same expansionist mindset when it took the whole India. 

And the south Indians blame the same to Aryan invaders who imposed their Vedas as religion upon them. 

 

 

On 11/19/2024 at 11:08 AM, mishra said:

 

Its not letting Jews to have their land or Zorashtrian to enter their land or Hindus to live in their land.

 

Yes, this is the main problem and we have to compel them forcefully to accept the modern Secular Human values. 

However, the case of Israel is the opposite, and there extremist right-wing religious Zionists playing the devil's role. 

Instead of elevating Muslims to the modern level of Secularism, we will go down to the level of extremist Muslims and Islam. 

 

 

[Alam_dar]

On 11/19/2024 at 12:15 PM, mishra said:

Nah, That arguement doesnt flies.

 

Land of Jews is Judea and Samaria which is present day Israel. Kenya Argentina Uganada whatever isnt Land of Jews.

 

 

Land of Abraham was not Israel (Judea and Samaria), but Iraq. 

 

Yes, Abraham was not born in Israel, but in the present day Iraq (according to the Jewish Bible itself).

 

There were other non-believing tribes living in Judea and Samaria, but later Jews killed their ALL men and enslaved all of their women and children (also clearly written in the Jewish Bible how their prophet did the genocide by killing all men after getting victory upon them in the wars). 

 

 

[Alam_dar]

Abraham was himself not a NATIVE to Jerusalem/Canaan, but was born in Iraq (according to the Jewish Bible):

According to the old testament [Genesis 12:4–6], Abraham himself was not the native of this land, but he was born in the city of "Ur of the Chaldees", which is situated in the Southern Iraq. [Genesis 12:4–6] further tells that Abraham migrated to this land of Palestine only when he was 75 years old. 

 

Jewish Prophets did genocide of the original local population (according to the Jewish Bible)

https://www.biblestudytools.com/deuteronomy/20.html

(Deuteronomy 20:10-17)

10 When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace. 

11 If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labor and shall work for you. 

12 If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city. 

13 When the LORD your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. 

14 As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. And you may use the plunder the LORD your God gives you from your enemies. 
15 This is how you are to treat all the cities that are at a distance from you and do not belong to the nations nearby.
16However, in the cities of the nations the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes.
17 Completely destroy them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the LORD your God has commanded you. 

 

https://www.biblestudytools.com/numbers/31.html

(Numbers 31)

7 They (army of Israelites) fought against Midian, as the LORD commanded Moses, and killed every man. 

8 ...

9 The Israelites captured the Midianite women and children and took all the Midianite herds, flocks and goods as plunder. 

10 They burned all the towns where the Midianites had settled, as well as all their camps. 

11 They took all the plunder and spoils, including the people and animals, 

12 and brought the captives, spoils and plunder to Moses ... 

13 ...

14 Moses was angry with the officers of the army—the commanders of thousands and commanders of hundreds—who returned from the battle. 

15“Have you allowed all the women to live?” he asked them. 

16“They were the ones who followed Balaam’s advice and enticed the Israelites to be unfaithful to the LORD in the Peor incident, so that a plague struck the LORD’s people. 

17 Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, 

18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man. 

 

 

https://www.biblestudytools.com/deuteronomy/2.html

(Deuteronomy 2)

33 the LORD our God delivered him (Sihon king of Heshbon) over to us and we struck him down, together with his sons and his whole army. 

34 At that time we took all his towns and completely destroyed them—men, women and children. We left no survivors.

35 But the livestock and the plunder from the towns we had captured we carried off for ourselves.

Exactly this same thing was repeated with Og king of Bashan where all men, women and children were killed without any survivor (Deuteronomy 3: 1-7)

 

https://www.biblestudytools.com/deuteronomy/3.html

(Deuteronomy 3)
3 So the LORD our God also gave into our hands Og king of Bashan and all his army. We struck them down, leaving no survivors. 
4 At that time we took all his cities. There was not one of the sixty cities that we did not take from them—the whole region of Argob, Og’s kingdom in Bashan. 
5 All these cities were fortified with high walls and with gates and bars, and there were also a great many unwalled villages.
6 We completely destroyed them, as we had done with Sihon king of Heshbon, destroying every city—men, women and children.
7 But all the livestock and the plunder from their cities we carried off for ourselves. 
8 So at that time we took from these two kings of the Amorites the territory east of the Jordan, from the Arnon Gorge as far as Mount Hermon.
9 (Hermon is called Sirion by the Sidonians; the Amorites call it Senir.)
10 We took all the towns on the plateau, and all Gilead, and all Bashan as far as Salekah and Edrei, towns of Og’s kingdom in Bashan. 

 

https://www.biblestudytools.com/joshua/6.html

(Joshua 6)

21 They devoted the city (of Jericho) to the LORD and destroyed with the sword every living thing in it—men and women, young and old, cattle, sheep and donkeys.

....

24 Then they burned the whole city and everything in it, but they put the silver and gold and the articles of bronze and iron into the treasury of the LORD’s house. 

 

https://www.biblestudytools.com/1-samuel/passage/?q=1-samuel+15:2-3

 

1 Samuel 15:3
Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’ ”

 

 

Jews were not the original NATIVES of this Land

The real Original Natives of Palestine were the Philistines, Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites, while the Jews were only the invaders who occupied their land after massacring them (even the women and the children were slaughtered too according to the Bible).

 

Philistines People:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philistines
Those were the people who were non Jewish and lived in the areas of Gaza, Ashkelon, Ashdod, Ekron, and Gath, from Wadi Gaza in the south to the Yarqon River in the north.
They lived there before the formation of Kingdom of Israel. The Philistines were an ancient people known for their conflict with the Israelites described in the Bible.

 

Native People of Jerusalem were "Jebusites" who were massacred by Jewish prophet/god:

Native people of Jerusalem were also Non Jewish. They were called Jebusite (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jebusite).

Later they were attacked and massacred by Moses and only then it became a Jewish city.

 

Philistines, Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites all existed in this land before Abraham:

Genesis 21:22-27 confirms the presence of Philistine even before Abraham. The king of Philistine at Abraham's time was Abimelech.

And also Hittites, Armorites, Perizzites, Hivites all were present in this land before Abraham. Later Jewish Prophets/god killed all of them and made their land Jewish State. 

Genesis 15
(17) When the sun had set and darkness had fallen, a smoking firepot with a blazing torch appeared and passed between the pieces. 18 On that day the Lord made a covenant with Abram and said, “To your descendants I give this land, from the Wadi[e] of Egypt to the great river, the Euphrates— 19 the land of the Kenites, Kenizzites, Kadmonites, 20 Hittites, Perizzites, Rephaites, 21 Amorites, Canaanites, Girgashites and Jebusites.”

Jewish god could make this promise to Abraham only when these nations already existed in this land at time of Abraham. 

 

 

 

[zen]

Moses is said to have brought Jews, freeing them from the slavery of Egypt, to the promised land. The film Ten Commandments (1956) deals with this subject. 

 

And there were “Canaanites” (and such tribes) already living in the area. 

 

PS

 

 

Edited November 22, 2024 by zen

[zen]

1 hour ago, Alam_dar said:

To your descendants I give this land, from the Wadi[e] of Egypt to the great river, the Euphrates— 19 the land of the Kenites, Kenizzites, Kadmonites, 20 Hittites, Perizzites, Rephaites, 21 Amorites, Canaanites, Girgashites and Jebusites.”

Extremists in Israel’s idea of “Greater Israel”: