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Israeli settlers in Occupied Palestine


zen

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1 hour ago, mishra said:

I asked him why dont they release the hostages?

His answer was "If they release, Israelis will hit them even Harder and indescriminately".

I asked him, "On what basis he is concluding this because before Oct 7, Fact remains that Israelis were not sending tanks and bombing Gaza "

As expected, He had no answer


You should NOT make it a Muslim v Others as it makes you fall into a narrative trap. 
 

Israel itself holds 1,000s of Palestinian hostages in its prisons (many just thrown in without a charge and abused in prisons). Many times Israel and Hamas have exchanged “hostages”.  Just in last 12 months, illegal Israeli settlers killed like 700 Palestinians in the West Bank.

Israel has bombed Gaza many times including in 2021 (The Gaza War). 
 

The issue here is that Israel is the occupying force so it keeps working unilaterally to silence Palestinians cause. It shies away from discussing the two-state solution, and works to disadvantage Palestinians to ask for their state (taken discussions basically off the table). Only way for Palestinians to fight is through protest and violence esp. with the extremist in power in Israel.  Ironically, it is the Israeli response (used to acting with impunity) to Oct 7 that has brought the Palestinian cause back on the table with more and more countries now supporting Palestine.
 

The current genocide is a part of a plan to resettle Gaza, using Oct 7 as an excuse. The extremist in Israel even dream of the “Greater Israel”.
 

Many people in Israel are protesting against Nethanyahu for not caring about the hostages. Even if the hostages are released, Israel is not going to vacate the Palestinian territories. Palestine does not want to remain in status quo.

 

The issue is much larger. The conflict is about Israel wanting to continue to occupy Palestinians lands, while the Palestinians wanting to free its land under Israel’s occupation. Other activities take place under the influence of this root cause.

 

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7 minutes ago, zen said:


You should NOT make it a Muslim v Others as it makes you fall into a narrative trap. 
 

Israel itself holds 1,000s of Palestinian hostages in its prisons. Many times Israel and Hamas have exchanged “hostages”.  Just in last 12 months, illegal Israeli settlers killed like 700 Palestinians in the West Bank. 

Israel has bombed Gaza many times including in 2021 (The Gaza War). 
 

The issue here is that Israel is the occupying force so it keeps working unilaterally to silence Palestinians cause. Only way for Palestinians to fight is through violence esp. with the extremist in power in Israel. 
 

The current genocide is a part of a plan to resettle Gaza, using Oct 7 as an excuse. 
 

Even people in Israel are protesting against Nethanyahu for not caring about the hostages. Even if the hostages are released, Israel is not going to vacate the Palestinian territories.

 

The issue is much larger. The conflict is about Israel wanting to occupy Palestinians lands to increase its territory, while the Palestinians wanting to free its land. Other activities take place under the influence of this root cause.

 

OK. The use of term "settler" is incorrect.

 

Bharat that includes Indus plains is Land of Hindus

USA is land Native Indians

Judaih and Sumeriah is the land of Jews,

Iran is land of Zorashtrian

Greeks has many gods and Goddeses before Christinity arrived. But If Christinity wouldnt have converted them all, I would support followers of Olympus to have a place in present day Greece.

Australia is land of Aborigines

Canada is land of Indigeneous Meitis Inuits

 

 

If you look at history, Its Islam and Christianity which wants complete anhilation of Natives their religion custom and tradition. Either kick them out or convert them.  However Christianity made Peace after world war II. They accepted the indegenous people and their rights. But Islam is still living in medivel age.

 

Its not letting Jews to have their land or Zorashtrian to enter their land or Hindus to live in their land.

 

 

 

 

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40 minutes ago, mishra said:

OK. The use of term "settler" is incorrect.

 

Bharat that includes Indus plains is Land of Hindus

USA is land Native Indians

Judaih and Sumeriah is the land of Jews,

Iran is land of Zorashtrian

Greeks has many gods and Goddeses before Christinity arrived. But If Christinity wouldnt have converted them all, I would support followers of Olympus to have a place in present day Greece.

Australia is land of Aborigines

Canada is land of Indigeneous Meitis Inuits

 

 

If you look at history, Its Islam and Christianity which wants complete anhilation of Natives their religion custom and tradition. Either kick them out or convert them.  However Christianity made Peace after world war II. They accepted the indegenous people and their rights. But Islam is still living in medivel age.

 

Its not letting Jews to have their land or Zorashtrian to enter their land or Hindus to live in their land.

 

 

 

 


“Settlers” is the word universally used as Israelis illegally settle in Palestine. By international laws, such settlements are not allowed.

 

If you want to talk about history, the Zionist (Jews who wanted a Jewish land, turning Judaism into a nationalist movement) shortlisted three countries  - Argentina, Uganda (Kenya) and Palestine (Thankfully, India was not on that list). Initially Uganda (not Palestine) is said to be chosen but Christians have said to have opposed that. Working with the British, Palestine, which was under British occupation, was chosen. With the support of rich powerful Jewish families, Zionists began to settle in Palestine. The relatively nomad Arabs were not much of a resistance (much like people in India were not for the British). Zionists started with collective farms and now control the whole Palestine. 
 

It is good to discuss history but it is irreverent to the currently status where Israel and Palestine, with established positions through international involvement (they know about history), need to work for the two-state solution! 

 

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48 minutes ago, zen said:


“Settlers” is the word universally used as Israelis illegally settle in Palestine. By international laws, such settlements are not allowed.

 

If you want to talk about history, the Zionist (Jews who wanted a Jewish land, turning Judaism into a nationalist movement) shortlisted three countries  - Argentina, Uganda (Kenya) and Palestine (Thankfully, India was not on that list). Initially Uganda (not Palestine) is said to be chosen but Christians have said to have opposed that. Working with the British, Palestine, which was under British occupation, was chosen. With the support of rich powerful Jewish families, Zionists began to settle in Palestine. The relatively nomad Arabs were not much of a resistance (much like people in India were not for the British). Zionists started with collective farms and now control the whole Palestine. 
 

It is good to discuss history but it is irreverent to the currently status where Israel and Palestine, with established positions through international involvement (they know about history), need to work for the two-state solution! 

 

Nah, That arguement doesnt flies.

 

Land of Jews is Judea and Samaria which is present day Israel. Kenya Argentina Uganada whatever isnt Land of Jews.

 

 

But then again, you find equivalence in Hamas terrorists and terror planners arrested imprisoned all across world as Hostage. May god help you.

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13 minutes ago, mishra said:

Nah, That arguement doesnt flies.

 

Land of Jews is Judea and Samaria which is present day Israel. Kenya Argentina Uganada whatever isnt Land of Jews.

 

But then again, you find equivalence in Hamas terrorists and terror planners arrested imprisoned all across world as Hostage. May god help you.


Note that “Judea and Samaria” are in the West Bank, which is not considered Israel (it is Palestine or occupied Palestine).

 

Btw, I talked about Palestinians in Israeli jails held without charge, as collateral and so on (they form a large percentage). Palestinians cannot even arrest Israelis including IDF terrorists with war crimes (with a charge). Thankfully, the international community is raising its voice on behalf of Palestine!


 

PS

 

 

 

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10 minutes ago, zen said:


Note that “Judea and Samaria” are in the West Bank, which is not considered Israel (it is Palestine or occupied Palestine).

 

Btw, I talked about Palestinians in Israeli jails held without charge, as collateral and so on (they form a large percentage). Palestinians cannot even arrest Israelis including IDF terrorists with war crimes (with a charge). Thankfully, the international community is raising its voice on behalf of Palestine!

 

 William_Hughes,_The_Kingdoms_of_Judah_an

 

So Israel needs  to get even more territory. Modern day Christian followers cant tell their kids that they either killed all the Jews , enslaved them or sold the Jew slave of the region because of crucification of their Gods son Jesus

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3 minutes ago, mishra said:

 William_Hughes,_The_Kingdoms_of_Judah_an

 

So Israel needs  to get even more territory. Modern day Christian followers cant tell their kids that they either killed all the Jews , enslaved them or sold the Jew slave of the region because of crucification of their Gods son Jesus


By taking a different route, at least, now you are beginning to understand the Israeli extremists’ game - the quest for “Greater Israel”, which includes parts in Lebanon, Egypt, Jordan, and maybe even Saudi Arabia. Soon you will also understand the Israeli propaganda against Palestinians.

 

 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, zen said:


By taking a different route, at least, now you are beginning to understand the Israeli extremists’ game - the quest for “Greater Israel”, which includes parts in Lebanon, Egypt, Jordan, and maybe even Saudi Arabia. Soon you will also understand the Israeli propaganda against Palestinians.

 

 

 

 

So now you recognise that land belonged to Jews.

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6 minutes ago, mishra said:

So now you recognise that land belonged to Jews.


I have not said that Jews did not live here.  But that it is irrelevant to the current status. 

 

Region has gone through several changes over the years. Arabs have lived there too for centuries. 
 

It is like someone talking about Akhand Bharat based on remote past (but that is for domestic audience as these guys can’t even put up their hand for Hindus in BD). I have already posted on the comical nature of such thinking!

 

 

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7 minutes ago, zen said:


Not necessarily arguing just seeing a conflict from different angles!

You made incorrect assessment then, You made incorrect assessment now. Difference is, Outy @outsider was with you. WOnder where did he go after killing of that Communist guy. he made a brief appearnce but he is gone. I can only prey he has good life. Genius 

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1 minute ago, mishra said:

You made incorrect assessment then, You made incorrect assessment now. Difference is, Outy @outsider was with you. WOnder where did he go after killing of that Communist guy. he made a brief appearnce but he is gone. I can only prey he has good life. Genius 


what incorrect assessment? :hmmm: 

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@mishra

 

I posted the below some time ago on this thread:

 

When it comes to India, many comically assume parallels b/w Israel and India where:

 

Zionists = Hindus 

Palestinians = Muslims 

Lebanon, Jordan, etc. = Pakistan, BD, etc. 

Greater Israel = Akhand Bharat :facepalm: 

 

This is where the support for extremism in Israel comes in because since nothing happens in India, the events in Israel are probably seen as a visualization of these folks’ what if …” world.

 

In the real world, there are no strong parallels.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, zen said:

@mishra

 

I posted the below some time ago on this thread:

 

When it comes to India, many comically assume parallels b/w Israel and India where:

 

Zionists = Hindus 

Palestinians = Muslims 

Lebanon, Jordan, etc. = Pakistan, BD, etc. 

Greater Israel = Akhand Bharat :facepalm: 

 

This is where the support for extremism in Israel comes in because since nothing happens in India, the events in Israel are probably seen as a visualization of these folks’ what if …” world.

 

In the real world, there are no strong parallels.

 

 

See, Every community has a Superiority Complex. For example Hindus see having glorious past, Han Chinese having glorious past. Jews see having glorious past. They use it to mobilise society and develop them. Followers of Islam had glorious past that too just couple of hundreds years .

 

However Fact is

 

Christians are only ones having glorious present.

Han Chinese worked hard caught up or nearly there compared to Christian.

Hindus and Jews are catching up

 

  But followers of Islam are special case.  Just few hundred years back they converted Constantinpole to Istanbul beating Christianity, But now they are farthest behind in all field. If it wasnt Americans, they would be still selling Dates and riding Horse and Camel. They can not accept it that the Christians are ones who went far ahead. Now they see Hans going ahead. Jews Going ahead, Hindus going ahead. Everything is seen as loss to their community and thinking.  Gap between them and rest keeps increasing. Sooner or later, Voices within them will start questioning attraction and viabilty of ideology.

 

Hence they come together. its last Hurrah before decline.

 

Now you can put variables in your above equation and redo them

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3 minutes ago, mishra said:

Hence they come together. its last Hurrah before decline.


Good speculation but it does not change the current status where both Palestine and Israel need to exist.

 

I am not for Israel v Palestine but for Israel and Palestine and currently it is Israel that is the roadblock with extremist in charge. 
 

Netanyahu reminds me of Hitler to some degree. 

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7 minutes ago, zen said:


Good speculation but it does not change the current status where both Palestine and Israel need to exist.

 

I am not for Israel v Palestine but for Israel and Palestine and currently it is Israel that is the roadblock with extremist in charge. 
 

Netanyahu reminds me of Hitler to some degree. 

Its not speculation. I have put this very same view of Speririority Complex to my Muslim friends who i think can objectively discuss the topic. It comes from them that a course correction is must. Ideology worked in medivel ages. World has mooved on. It doesnt work anymore. As per them, They either adapt or risk perishing.

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If Palestine is able to gain “independence”, below are some of the points that it would consider (from the top of the mind):

 

a) Islamic v Secular 

That Israel is a Jewish state would encourage Palestine to be Islamic. However, I would prefer if it chose to be secular as Palestine has been home to various religions. Three religions claim Jerusalem as a holy site so it makes sense to remain secular. 
 

b) Illegal Israeli settlers 

They should ideally be deported (as they came in with hostile intentions). Their settlements should be allocated to Palestinians, which will create revenues for the govt as well through sale of the properties. 
 

c) West Bank & Gaza connections

Open up transportation link including via road b/w the two areas. Have international airport in East Jerusalem or nearby area and in Gaza. Develop a major commercial port at Gaza. Gaza has a potential to become the Rivera of the region. 


d) Currency - Shekel or Dinar 

Maybe go with the Dinar in a planned manner, while allowing the use of other currencies.

e) Economy 

Initially will need to be focused on tourism, agriculture, fishing, and niche manufacturing (relative cost advantage). It can serve as distribution hub (cost advantage) for products going to Egypt, Israel, and Jordan. The construction sector will see a boom because of widespread destruction. It can also develop its arts and entertainment sector. 

 
f) Military 

Have a limited military for border and security purpose. And/or allow NATO to have a small base.

 

g) Eduction

There is a potential to reform its education system to the latest standards. Many Palestinians go overseas for higher education so they can leverage on that information to create a good education system. 

 

 

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