mishra Posted November 11 Share Posted November 11 2 hours ago, zen said: To give a rough example: In 1947, * Ind’s population was around 350M. * British population was roughly around 125K. Now say that instead of 125K, Britain began to settle its people in India and its population was 5M. At the time of partition, 1/3rd to 1/2 of the land is allotted to the British and the rest for the 350M people. The 350M try to fight but the British beat them and occupy more area, leaving those 350M in a more or less oppressed state. Unfortunately, in India such things have happened where outsiders (the Mughals) for example have come and set up their kingdom. Give the numbers on Israel please. how many jews vs how many muslims in the region Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mishra Posted November 11 Share Posted November 11 (edited) 2 hours ago, zen said: You go to war to eliminate the Jews, Jews end up winning more land Edited November 11 by mishra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranvir Posted November 11 Share Posted November 11 Why is this conflict given more attention than others in the world? As I mentioned, far more people have died in Yemen, Syria and Sudan in recent years but you'll never see any protests or vigils for them, including from their co-religionists. Do the Palestinians care about the Kashmiri Pandits expelled from their motherland? Or the hundreds and thousands of Sikhs and Hindus who have been forced to leave Afghanistan? As harsh as it sounds, forget about them. They have enough people 'supporting' them throughout the Muslim world. mishra 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted November 11 Share Posted November 11 3 minutes ago, mishra said: You go to war to eliminate the Jews, Jews end up winning more land That famous pic of how Israel grabbed land from Palestine and the myth behind it. Debunked. But the peace is a two- way street. Israel has given up many land based on return for peace, but the Palestinians refuse to take it. 1994, 2008 etc. Arafat wanted a state, no control and free movement for Palestinians across rest of Israel. Gaza wants all of Israel and kill all Jews, no other option. I doubt it will be resolved in our lifetime. Sad. This strategy has been the case ever since the Balfour declaration of 1917. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted November 11 Author Share Posted November 11 25 minutes ago, mishra said: Give the numbers on Israel please. how many jews vs how many muslims in the region 24 minutes ago, mishra said: You go to war to eliminate the Jews, Jews end up winning more land Inconsequential rhetorics in 2024. These countries are still in the 20th century war in the 21st century, and may continue to be so till an even bigger disaster strikes. With the Palestinian issue burning, Israel itself is at risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted November 11 Author Share Posted November 11 The Israeli extremists also want to turn Gaza into a “Rivera”: Vicks57 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted November 11 Author Share Posted November 11 Another nice doc on the extremist Israeli settlers: Vicks57 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted November 11 Author Share Posted November 11 (edited) Below the extremists in Israel (and the extremist in Palestine such as Hamas): Edited November 11 by zen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted November 11 Author Share Posted November 11 Gaza in ruins: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted November 12 Author Share Posted November 12 On 11/10/2024 at 3:51 AM, Ranvir said: My grandad had to escape Pakistan in 1946, he didn't cry about it for the rest of his life. The best thing is to have a proper partition in Israel/Palestine and let the Palestinians have their state. Israel left Gaza in 2005 and left them to their own devices but that wasn't enough for them. Why is it a crowded place? Because they reproduce like rabbits. Where did your grandad move to? People of subcon were free to move around based on their religious inclinations. Pakistan and BD are oppressing the minorities. Gaza is a refugee colony exposed to a variety of restrictions that does not allow it to be a true economy. It is a strip that is 40 kms * 12 kms in area, roughly equivalent of 2 Washington DC. I think I posted this video before: ^ it is age restricted so you will need to watch it on YT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted November 12 Author Share Posted November 12 Another air strike on Gaza: Onceuponatime 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BacktoCricaddict Posted November 12 Share Posted November 12 (edited) We can't even agree upon a solution on a message board. We experience no pain, have no stake, no families lost, no soldiers killed, no land taken, or no hostages taken, and yet we take sides and point fingers. Those people - both Jewish and Muslim - have a history of pain inflicted upon them by the other for centuries (this did not start in the 1940s). You think they will want to reach out? There is very little hope for a resolution. @zen the videos you posted up in this thread of unity and cross-religious friendship are truly uplifting. I have read/heard many such stories since this most recent conflict started. I even see on the ground level such interactions. But they are too small, have little power and I have no hope that they will spread. Hate spreads faster, and leaders know and foster that. The only way this ends peacefully is if the Palestinian people eliminate Hamas internally, Israel gives up settlements and agrees to a 2-state solution, and they somehow co-exist. That is as much possible as the Sun rising in the West tomorrow. Edited November 12 by BacktoCricaddict zen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranvir Posted November 12 Share Posted November 12 3 hours ago, zen said: Where did your grandad move to? People of subcon were free to move around based on their religious inclinations. Pakistan and BD are oppressing the minorities. Gaza is a refugee colony exposed to a variety of restrictions that does not allow it to be a true economy. It is a strip that is 40 kms * 12 kms in area, roughly equivalent of 2 Washington DC. I think I posted this video before: ^ it is age restricted so you will need to watch it on YT. They were not free to move, they were forced to move or face likely death. He moved to the Indian side of Punjab but he had good foresight to do it a year earlier than the partition date, others were not so fortunate. I've seen videos of Gaza before the war, it looked far more developed and cleaner than India. Why don't the Egyptians open the border? It's hypocrisy from the Arabs. If the Arabs won the 6 day war I'm pretty damn sure they would have split the whole region amongst themselves instead of having a single free Palestinian state. mishra 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted November 12 Author Share Posted November 12 (edited) “Settlers” are getting more confident of breaking the international laws with Trump slated to come in. Edited November 12 by zen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted November 12 Author Share Posted November 12 57 minutes ago, Ranvir said: I've seen videos of Gaza before the war, it looked far more developed and cleaner than India. Why don't the Egyptians open the border? It's hypocrisy from the Arabs. If the Arabs won the 6 day war I'm pretty damn sure they would have split the whole region amongst themselves instead of having a single free Palestinian state. Issues cannot be solved based on “assumptions”. Israel was created from Palestine with the help of the UN with the US providing it with military assistance including funding. Currently per international laws, it is occupying the Palestinian areas. It needs to vacate those. Palestinians are looking for a state in Palestine, which is why they have been fighting for it everyday for decades. I posted the video below earlier, which captures the spirit of Palestinians where they are even willing to die for their home: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted November 12 Author Share Posted November 12 There is so much sadness in the region, especially for one group of people: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted November 12 Author Share Posted November 12 (edited) *Beware of graphic images (and extreme sadness in the videos)* Because of extremism, Israel is beginning to lose sympathy (and good will) that it earned earned due to the suffering of Jews in the Holocaust: We cannot even watch such videos Edited November 12 by zen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singhvivek141 Posted November 12 Share Posted November 12 1 hour ago, zen said: *Beware of graphic images (and extreme sadness in the videos)* Because of extremism, Israel is beginning to lose sympathy (and good will) that it earned earned due to the suffering of Jews in the Holocaust: We cannot even watch such videos These videos will continue to pop-up till animals like Hamas are alive. Had Israel not acted, you would have seen such videos coming up from Jew homes. Terror groups like Hamas, hezbollah purposefully takes shelter under the hospitals, residential buildings and schools. So that under collateral damage they can show and pass the blame. Same thing has happened in kashmir as well, where the terriorists will live in the house of local kashmiris, and our security forces will have hard time capturing them. Videos are sad, but the civilians and local people should see the reality of those terrorist groups whom they consider as fidayeen or holy fighters. coffee_rules 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted November 12 Author Share Posted November 12 (edited) 2 hours ago, singhvivek141 said: These videos will continue to pop-up till animals like Hamas are alive. Had Israel not acted, you would have seen such videos coming up from Jew homes. Terror groups like Hamas, hezbollah purposefully takes shelter under the hospitals, residential buildings and schools. So that under collateral damage they can show and pass the blame. One cannot be bombing civilian areas even if some Hamas militants are there. Gaza is externally controlled by Israel, which has killed more innocent Palestinians than Hamas has killed innocent Israelis. The extremist in Israel are similar to Hamas. Some extremist “settlers” want Gaza too and hope for the Palestinians there to be wiped out (videos posted on the thread). You can Google the death toll in Gaza, where approximately 1/3rd dead are said to be children. Even some people in Israel are speaking up: Hamas is wrong but so are the extremists in Israel, who try to undermine Palestine’s voice. In a video that I posted earlier (posted below again), Care International has accused Israel for creating obstacles to provide humanitarian assistance (“people are burning alive”): ^ And the global press is questioning if Hamas militants were really there. Edited November 12 by zen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranvir Posted November 12 Share Posted November 12 1 hour ago, zen said: Issues cannot be solved based on “assumptions”. Israel was created from Palestine with the help of the UN with the US providing it with military assistance including funding. Currently per international laws, it is occupying the Palestinian areas. It needs to vacate those. Palestinians are looking for a state in Palestine, which is why they have been fighting for it everyday for decades. I posted the video below earlier, which captures the spirit of Palestinians where they are even willing to die for their home: Yes they should get a state and they have been offered a state in the past but have refused as they want all of the land. Hamas's motto was to eradicate all Jews from the land. Was there ever a Palestine passport in the past? Only now when they are an extremely dire situation they now agree to a two state solution. Egypt is free to open their border and I think Israel have never minded Egypt taking them. Should the Jews have been given the land in the first place? Probably not. But today their are millions of people whose ancestry is from UP/Bihar/Delhi living in Karachi, these people have no links whatsoever to Karachi. It's the same thing in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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