Israeli settlers in Occupied Palestine

[singhvivek141]

57 minutes ago, zen said:

Appears as if you are unaware of Al-Nakba, and guided by Israeli PoV probably based on believing that Jews are fighting Muslims much like Hindus are. Jews are not Hindus. Neither is the Israeli-Palestinian conflict a proxy for India-Pakistan issues.

Below is a video I posted earlier: 

 

 

 

Didnt knew about Nakba, will watch it in free time.
For me, personally, it's not about Jews vs Muslims vs Hindus. It's purely from the point of geopolitical sense.
US has been against India historically, yet we have good relations with Israel. Israel helped us in Kargil war even though US was supporting Pakistan.

We don't need to pick and choose a side here based on religion, it's simply what's best for us. Adani has significant investments in Haifa Port and that's an important asset for Indian govt...while Hezbollah has been specifically targetting Haifa port disrupting it's operations.

If tomorrow Iran and Pakistan go to war, which side we will support ? It will be Iran coz it's our partner for the gas pipeline program. There won't be any Hindu vs Muslim angle there.

[singhvivek141]

20 minutes ago, Vicks57 said:

 

 I am tired about RW Indians defending Israel and its actions. No wonder we are the butt of jokes on social media.

 

I'm not much active on SM, but one can always find a way to give back.
Israel is our strategic ally and we have assets in Haifa Port. Every nation tries to protect it's assets in the foreign country.
Anyway, in this case, Hamas was the aggressor and Palestinians supported it. Israel has every right to defend itself, doesn't matter what LW, RW or CW Indians talk on X or Reddit.

Rest is Israel's internal matter, let Palestinians find a way to de-escalate the war situation. 

Edited November 13, 2024 by singhvivek141

[singhvivek141]

1 minute ago, Vicks57 said:

 

IDF has been killing Palestinians since 1948. Israelis are supportive of IDF.

 

IDF is the government military and Hamas is a militant organisation.

 

Palestine has no army.

 

By that logic, what should Palestine do?

 

"Palestinians supported it" 

 

Historically
Should have stopped being an spy for Hamas, which led to Oct 7 attack and breach of trust.

Now, 
Give the details of all Hamas fighters to IDF. Gaza isn't too big of a land, the fighters are hiding within the common people. It's not like IDF bombed the areas without giving any warning. Wars shouldn't be fought on the civilian grounds and Hamas knew it will bring civilian causalty.

[zen]

20 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

Didnt knew about Nakba, will watch it in free time.
For me, personally, it's not about Jews vs Muslims vs Hindus. It's purely from the point of geopolitical sense.
US has been against India historically, yet we have good relations with Israel. Israel helped us in Kargil war even though US was supporting Pakistan.

We don't need to pick and choose a side here based on religion, it's simply what's best for us. Adani has significant investments in Haifa Port and that's an important asset for Indian govt...while Hezbollah has been specifically targetting Haifa port disrupting it's operations.

If tomorrow Iran and Pakistan go to war, which side we will support ? It will be Iran coz it's our partner for the gas pipeline program. There won't be any Hindu vs Muslim angle there.

 

Need to delink India. India is not a key player in geopolitics. It even fails to strongly put its hand up for minorities in neighbouring Islamic countries. India chest-thumps on an issue (for its internal audiences) and when the need arises tucks its tail to become “non aligned”. 

 

The current action in Gaza has created a massive humanitarian crisis. Israel is allowing illegal settlements in the West Bank as well, breaking international laws. 
 

To see an example of the Palestinian spirit (not extremism) despite Israeli brutality, here is a short video that I posted earlier (they love their homeland and are willing to die than let Israelis steal it away): 

 

 

Israeli extremists should not be allowed  to bury Palestinian voice. 

Edited November 13, 2024 by zen

[vvvslaxman]

32 minutes ago, Vicks57 said:

 

 I am tired about RW Indians defending Israel and its actions. No wonder we are the butt of jokes on social media.

 

 

 

 

It is not about right or left.  It is about right or wrong. But there are some Indians have different stances.   One friend i know is one of the biggest modi fan and also the biggest Anti trumper , supported Kamala through and through.  

[singhvivek141]

3 minutes ago, Vicks57 said:

 

Israel created Hamas to malign PLO. Yassir Arafat was very popular.

 

How the hell normal Palestinian citizens know these Hamas locations?

 

If they do that, they will be killed by Hamas.

 

Palestinians are stuck between Hamas and Israel.

 

That's where countries like Egypt or Jordan should come forward, instead of letting the civilians die give them refuge. Let gaza become a battle ground for Hamas vs IDF for a brief period with no civilians. 
Once we have a winner, civilians can be brought back and settled as per the arrangements with the victorious party. 

[singhvivek141]

7 minutes ago, zen said:

 

Please delink India. India is not a key player in geopolitics. It even fails to strongly put its hand up for minorities in neighbouring Islamic countries. India cheat thumps on an issue (for its internal audiences) and when the need arises tucks its tail to become “non aligned”. 

 

The current action in Gaza has created a massive humanitarian crisis. Israel is allowing illegal settlements in the West Bank as well, breaking international laws. 
 

To see an example of the Palestinian spirit (not extremism) despite Israeli brutality, here is a short video that I posted earlier (they love their homeland and willing to die than let Israelis steal it away): 

 

 

Israeli extremists should not be allowed  to bury Palestinian voice. 

Key question is why don't other Arab nations are not asking Israel for a free passage of civilians till IDF wipes Hamas. Simply passing blank statements won't work, someone from OIC has to come forward and talk to Netanyahu for a solution.
Lebanoni civilians too faced the heat coz idiots of Hezbollah jumped into a war which wasn't theirs, OIC should question Iran as well and grab it by collar instead of just firing at one party. But they won't do coz Iran now has nuclear bomb and it can single handedly bash all the Arab countries to extinction.

[zen]

1 hour ago, singhvivek141 said:

Key question is why don't other Arab nations are not asking Israel for a free passage of civilians till IDF wipes Hamas. Simply passing blank statements won't work, someone from OIC has to come forward and talk to Netanyahu for a solution.
Lebanoni civilians too faced the heat coz idiots of Hezbollah jumped into a war which wasn't theirs, OIC should question Iran as well and grab it by collar instead of just firing at one party. But they won't do coz Iran now has nuclear bomb and it can single handedly bash all the Arab countries to extinction.

Hamas exists because Israel occupies Palestine. Hamas operates in Gaza and the PLO in the West Bank. The issue is of freeing Occupied Palestine to create a Palestinian state. 
 

Israeli extremists, backed by the US funding (which is diverted back to the US arms manufacturing companies) have worked to silence the Palestinian voice.
 

In the current situation, Netanyahu (an extremist) govt has allowed an increase in illegal settlements in the West Bank (backed up money from Jewish groups) terrorizing the Palestinians. Gaza, more or less a refugee colony, is laid seize with no real economy and dependence on Israel for necessary items including electricity, medicine, etc. The next plan for the Israeli settlers is to resettle Gaza. 
 

Israel has conspired to keep Palestinians relatively backward. Please look at the video by Norway that I posted on the current atrocities in Gaza.
 

Hamas has done a suicide mission where its goal appears to be to expose Israeli extremism (Netanyahu’s govt), which is not open to talks and believes in quietly silencing Palestinians. And through Israeli extremism, the world opinion has changed against (and appears to be changing where it hasn‘t changed so far) Israel.

 

It can even be said that Israel has been able to survive in the ME because Palestinians live among them. 
 

Below is Netanyahu trying to lecture Obama who attempted to broker a peace (Netanyahu got confidence because of the last Trump administration and attempts to silence the Palestinian voice increased. Now since Trump is back, the extreme violence in Occupied Palestine may continue with more intensity in 2025):

 

 

 

 

Edited November 13, 2024 by zen

[singhvivek141]

35 minutes ago, zen said:

Hamas exists because Israel occupies Palestine. Hamas operates in Gaza and PLO in the West Bank. The issue is of freeing Occupied Palestine to create a Palestinian state. 
 

Israeli extremists, backed by the US funding (which is diverted back to the US arms manufacturing companies) have worked to silence the Palestinian voice.
 

In the current situation, Netanyahu (an extremist) govt has allowed to increase illegal settlements in the West Bank terrorizing the Palestinians. Gaza, more or less a refugee colony, is laid seize with no real economy and dependence on Israel for necessary items including electricity, medicine, etc. Next plan for the Israeli settlers is to resettle Gaza. 
 

Israel has conspired to keep Palestinians relatively backward. Please look at the video by Norway that I posted. 
 

Hamas has done a suicide mission where its goal appears to be to expose Israeli extremism (Netanyahu’s govt), which is not open to talks and believes in quietly silencing Palestinians. And through Israeli extremism, the world opinion has changed on (and appears to be changing where it has changed so far) Israel. It can even be said that Israel has been able to survive in the ME because Palestinians live among them. 
 

Below is Netanyahu trying to lecture Obama who attempted to broker a peace (Netanyahu got confidence because of Trump and attempts to silence Palestinian voice increased. Now since Trump is back, the extreme violence in Occupied Palestine may continue with more intensity in 2025):

 

 

 

 

It's seems that you have already tagged Netanyahu and Israeli govt to extremism. Hence any further attempt to explain won't work now from my end 

 

Anyway, I am repeating the point that what Israel does with it's people is its internal matter. It may seem similar to what Yunus is doing in Bangladesh but it isn't in reality.

 

Let me re-iterate brief points what has happened so far in this war (which happened after decades of peace).

 

1. Hamas attacked on Israel in Oct 7, 2023...with pinpoint accuracy. Palestinians who were working in Israel provided the intel. Killing thousands of people and holding hundreds in Hostage

 

2. Israel identified Hamas militant centers, which are carefully planted under hospitals and schools

 

3. Israel issues warnings to civilians to vacate the area, before bombing and gave them ample time. Not all Civilians obeyed.

 

4. Israel starts bombing on the targets, some Civilians died and Hamas started propaganda.

 

5. Israel slowly starts ground operations in Gaza, here Hezbollah joins the party and started rocketing North Israel (particularly Haifa & Tel Aviv).

 

6. Israel starts fighting at two fronts with both Hamas & Hezbollah..parallely at third front Houthis are targeting ships at Red Sea

 

7. Mossad & IDF wipes the leadership of both organizations...it also eliminates one leader hiding in Iran.

 

8. Iran, starts rocketing in Tel Aviv...Israel responds with air force operations in Iranian aerospace.

 

In each of the scenario...Israel wasn't the first to attack. It simple retaliated, although disproportionate but justified.

Yet, people call Israeli govt as extremist but not the other side. 

[zen]

56 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

It's seems that you have already tagged Netanyahu and Israeli govt to extremism. Hence any further attempt to explain won't work now from my end 

 

Anyway, I am repeating the point that what Israel does with it's people is its internal matter. It may seem similar to what Yunus is doing in Bangladesh but it isn't in reality.

 

Let me re-iterate brief points what has happened so far in this war (which happened after decades of peace).

 

1. Hamas attacked on Israel in Oct 7, 2023...with pinpoint accuracy. Palestinians who were working in Israel provided the intel. Killing thousands of people and holding hundreds in Hostage

 

2. Israel identified Hamas militant centers, which are carefully planted under hospitals and schools

 

3. Israel issues warnings to civilians to vacate the area, before bombing and gave them ample time. Not all Civilians obeyed.

 

4. Israel starts bombing on the targets, some Civilians died and Hamas started propaganda.

 

5. Israel slowly starts ground operations in Gaza, here Hezbollah joins the party and started rocketing North Israel (particularly Haifa & Tel Aviv).

 

6. Israel starts fighting at two fronts with both Hamas & Hezbollah..parallely at third front Houthis are targeting ships at Red Sea

 

7. Mossad & IDF wipes the leadership of both organizations...it also eliminates one leader hiding in Iran.

 

8. Iran, starts rocketing in Tel Aviv...Israel responds with air force operations in Iranian aerospace.

 

In each of the scenario...Israel wasn't the first to attack. It simple retaliated, although disproportionate but justified.

Yet, people call Israeli govt as extremist but not the other side. 

The discussion is on what Israel is doing in “Occupied Palestine” so it is not an internal issues as “claimed” by you (probably connecting it with issues in India where people make blanket statements such as it is India’s internal issue).

 

What is also fueling violence is Israeli actions (since 1940s if you know about events such as Al Nakba) in a) occupying Palestinian areas illegally by promoting Jewish settlements, b) reducing Gaza to more or less a refugee colony, along with attempting to keep Palestinians relatively backward, and c) not adhering to the two state solution.

 

The world over Nethanyahu is seen as an extremist. Israeli relatively peace focused PM Rabin was assassinated in part due to hate speeches by Nethanyahu. Countries have filed genocide case in Gaza against Israel (Netanyahu could also be tried for genocide/war crimes in future). There is an international demand to stop settlements in the West Bank. 
 

Israel which was formed due to international intervention, now continues to ignore international laws.
 

Hamas is extremist too. One cannot conjure up an argument to suggest that Hamas leave while extremists in Israel remain. They are the two sides of the same coin. 

PS Labor chief Michaeli: Rabin was assassinated with Netanyahu’s cooperation

 

Edited November 13, 2024 by zen

[coffee_rules]

1 hour ago, singhvivek141 said:

Didnt knew about Nakba, will watch it in free time.
For me, personally, it's not about Jews vs Muslims vs Hindus. 

There are many versions of Al-Nakba , be wary of the Arab versions  that depicts the events with a green hue that exaggerate the Arabs saga.

 - There is no Palestine country or land or an identity. It is a made up one. They are all Arabs. There was no country called Iraq, Syria, Jordan, Yemen , or even Saudi Arabia  or Lebanon before WW1. 

 

- The whole area was under direct or quasi-direct rule of Ottomons till the end of WW1 and Arabs were determined to get independence from the Turks. 

 

- British wanted to get Russia with allied forces  and the Bolsheviks had many Jewish/zionist members in the leadership . To get their support, they promised the Zionist conference, a promised land in the area known as Palestine. They also promised independence to Arabs from Turks. Brits played a double game. Jerusalem was a holy city, but rest of Palestine was hardly developed and was a desert and Arabs lived there sporadically. 
 

- 1917-1927 saw a lot a Jews settling in the British mandate (Palestine + Jordon) . Syria and Lebanon were the French mandate areas.

 

- Jews were buying land from Arabs while settling in. They tilled the land which was a desert and made it green. They even gave jobs to poorer Arabs which incensed the feudal lords.

 

- Arabs opposed Jews settlement all along. Jewish immigration stopped during Holocaust as Arabs feared a Jewish state amongst them.

 

- There were a lot of killings of Jews in the beginning and push back from Arabs. Jews were ghettoized in remote area villages where they flourished.

 

- After Ww2 when it was becoming clear that British would leave ,leave and Jews armed themselves with extremistsfor survival.

 

- before 1940 itself, the British mandate was partitioned into Jordan (77%) and 23% to Jews and Arabs (Palestine)

 

- All Jews from rest of Arab land where Jews lived for 100s of years, were ethically cleansed and they all were absorbed by Jewish settlements. That is perfectly fine for these human rights champions of the world

 

- British left in 1947 , civil war broke, Arabs killed Jews and Jews hit back and this what they call as Al-Naqba when Jewish extremists massacred Arab villages. All other Arab countries joined in, after the cease-fire, Israel  had its settlements, West Bank was ruled by Jordan was part of it. Gaza was part of Egypt. This was in 1948. Jerusalem was divided and old city (east) was in Jordan control. 
 

There was no Palestine in 1948-67. West Bank people were Jordanians. 
 

West Bank and Gaza was only after 1967. When aggressors attack and lose, they lose the land and won’t get it back. If Israelis settle there, as it is their land and not occupied land as per them!!
 

See Part 1 and Part 2 of this series to know more about the 1948 war.

 

 

 

[zen]

Good to see that protests against Israel took place in Rome as well:
 

 

 

[singhvivek141]

32 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

There are many versions of Al-Nakba , be wary of the Arab versions  that depicts the events with a green hue that exaggerate the Arabs saga.

 - There is no Palestine country or land or an identity. It is a made up one. They are all Arabs. There was no country called Iraq, Syria, Jordan, Yemen , or even Saudi Arabia  or Lebanon before WW1. 

 

- The whole area was under direct or quasi-direct rule of Ottomons till the end of WW1 and Arabs were determined to get independence from the Turks. 

 

- British wanted to get Russia with allied forces  and the Bolsheviks had many Jewish/zionist members in the leadership . To get their support, they promised the Zionist conference, a promised land in the area known as Palestine. They also promised independence to Arabs from Turks. Brits played a double game. Jerusalem was a holy city, but rest of Palestine was hardly developed and was a desert and Arabs lived there sporadically. 
 

- 1917-1927 saw a lot a Jews settling in the British mandate (Palestine + Jordon) . Syria and Lebanon were the French mandate areas.

 

- Jews were buying land from Arabs while settling in. They tilled the land which was a desert and made it green. They even gave jobs to poorer Arabs which incensed the feudal lords.

 

- Arabs opposed Jews settlement all along. Jewish immigration stopped during Holocaust as Arabs feared a Jewish state amongst them.

 

- There were a lot of killings of Jews in the beginning and push back from Arabs. Jews were ghettoized in remote area villages where they flourished.

 

- After Ww2 when it was becoming clear that British would leave ,leave and Jews armed themselves with extremistsfor survival.

 

- before 1940 itself, the British mandate was partitioned into Jordan (77%) and 23% to Jews and Arabs (Palestine)

 

- All Jews from rest of Arab land where Jews lived for 100s of years, were ethically cleansed and they all were absorbed by Jewish settlements. That is perfectly fine for these human rights champions of the world

 

- British left in 1947 , civil war broke, Arabs killed Jews and Jews hit back and this what they call as Al-Naqba when Jewish extremists massacred Arab villages. All other Arab countries joined in, after the cease-fire, Israel  had its settlements, West Bank was ruled by Jordan was part of it. Gaza was part of Egypt. This was in 1948. Jerusalem was divided and old city (east) was in Jordan control. 
 

There was no Palestine in 1948-67. West Bank people were Jordanians. 
 

West Bank and Gaza was only after 1967. When aggressors attack and lose, they lose the land and won’t get it back. If Israelis settle there, as it is their land and not occupied land as per them!!
 

See Part 1 and Part 2 of this series to know more about the 1948 war.

 

 

 

Thanks,
As I said earlier, picture isn't as clear and straight forward as many are claiming to be. There is lot of history behind it and it's almost impossible to judge it unless we know the sequence step by step.
That's why, I am keeping my discussions only to the current war and it's origin, and in every case, the blame lies on Hamas and only Hamas. They broke the peace in the region (under influence of a third party) and in turn threw thousands of Palestinian men, women and children on the verge of death.

So called human right chipmunks should actually twist Qatar and other Arab nations to handover Hamas/Hezbollah leaders and fighters to handover them to IDF and stop this war immediately. But we know that won't happen due to unmentionable reasons.

Real picture is no one wants Palestinians, they're a nuisance and hence every Arab country rejects them. Hence thats why Egypt didn't open the Rafah border to absorb them. Last time when Jordan adopted them, they caused so much chaos that Zia Ul Haq had to be called and Black September happened. Not sure why everyone expects Israel to carry their burden.

[zen]

Gaza continues to suffer:

 

 

[zen]

31 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

As I said earlier, picture isn't as clear and straight forward as many are claiming to be. There is lot of history behind it and it's almost impossible to judge it unless we know the sequence step by step.

No one has to judge it. One has to see that both parties get their “state” as per the UN directive on which Israel announced it as a state. Palestine is yet to get its.
 

Also one has to criticize genocide attempts in Gaza, illegal settlements in the West Bank, and so on, while also criticizing terrorist attacks from groups such as Hamas.

 

Picture is clear when you look at 700,000 Palestinians being displaced in the 1940s and living as refugees including in Gaza, while Israelis continue to expand their territory. 
 

 

[zen]

Even BBC has begun to ask questions:

 

 

 

[coffee_rules]

2 hours ago, singhvivek141 said:

Thanks,
As I said earlier, picture isn't as clear and straight forward as many are claiming to be. There is lot of history behind it and it's almost impossible to judge it unless we know the sequence step by step.
That's why, I am keeping my discussions only to the current war and it's origin, and in every case, the blame lies on Hamas and only Hamas. They broke the peace in the region (under influence of a third party) and in turn threw thousands of Palestinian men, women and children on the verge of death.

So called human right chipmunks should actually twist Qatar and other Arab nations to handover Hamas/Hezbollah leaders and fighters to handover them to IDF and stop this war immediately. But we know that won't happen due to unmentionable reasons.

Real picture is no one wants Palestinians, they're a nuisance and hence every Arab country rejects them. Hence thats why Egypt didn't open the Rafah border to absorb them. Last time when Jordan adopted them, they caused so much chaos that Zia Ul Haq had to be called and Black September happened. Not sure why everyone expects Israel to carry their burden.

There is a marked difference between how Israel treated its refugees and how rest of Arab countries treated palestianian refugees. Israel assimilated all displaced Jews from Iraq, Syria, Yemen into  their society as a contributing citizen. Palestinians live in refugee camps in Jordan/Lebanon and are kept poor and impoverished. They can’t get jobs outside. This way, they can show the world how evil Israelis are. Their plan is for one day to return back to Istael and outnumber them on demography. 
 

Arafat and PLO plotted to kill King of Jordan and he expelled him to Lebanon, where they go, Palestinians cause trouble and nobody wants them. MBS has made it illegal for anybody to show support to Gaza/Hamas. Only in the west, we hear chants of “From the river to…”. 
 

There will be no more peace until Hamas or Hezbollah are eliminated. The best time was during 1994 after Oslo accord when Israel made peace with the terrorist Arafat and settled him in West Bank. 
 

That didn’t last long with Rabin killed by Jewish fundamentalist and violence broken when a Jewish extremist killed Arabs in Jerusalem. Retaliatory suicide bombers in Tel Aviv buses and Mossad killing Hamas terrorists. The terrorism industry operating in Qatar/Iran money won’t let any peace accords happen. As soon as Israel takes two steps towards peace, they strike some terror in some part  and Israel starts retaliatory strikes. Hamas hides behind women and children and rest of the world cry about Israelis killing babies.

 

I was sympathetic to Palestine cause before Oct7 or Hamas came to prominence in Gaza politically after 2005, but am numb until Hamas is eliminated. Hamas wants Palestinians to return to their land after all Jews are killed. In their charter, they quote some falana  sura of some falana hadith, that the Allah will not bring in time of judgment  until Muslims kill all Jews of the world. Such a bawasir organization is being supported by western academics .

 

if Arabs can live peacefully and thrive in Israel as law abiding citizens, why can’t Jews in West Bank? These settlers are some Zionist nutters , but they don’t want to live in WB killing all Arabs. They are not peaceful either, but why can’t the world preach Arabs to live in boundaries? 
 

The ultimate motive of these Palestinian Arabs is to eliminate all Jews. If Israel had lost in 1948, the victorious Egyptians, Jordanians, Syrians, Lebanese would have shared all the spoils with nothing left for the so-called local  indigenous “Palestine” population !! 

Edited November 13, 2024 by coffee_rules

[bharathh]

Where were all these bleeding hearts when the plentiful aid pumped into Gaza prior to Oct 7 was misappropriated to build tunnels and buy weapons instead of improving the condition of the people there? Everyone knew that Hamas had an iron hold over the people there - brainwashing and coercing children and families. Why were they all twiddling their thumbs then? Did children's lives not matter then? 

[vvvslaxman]

https://www.thenation.com/article/world/israel-gaza-hamas-war-netanyahu/

 

The Catastrophe of October 7. Why Did It Happen?

 

............. declared unanimously a total opposition to the establishment of a Palestinian state. Instead, Netanyahu relied on a divide-and-rule policy—strengthening Hamas by allowing Qatar to pour in an average of $30 million dollars a month to prop up the Hamas rule over Gaza, while weakening Abbas’s PLO and Palestinian Authority in the West Bank, ensuring that there would be no address for Israeli-Palestinian negotiations—which, in any event, the Netanyahu government wasn’t interested in.

All of this assumed that Hamas would play by the rules. Perhaps periodically sending rockets into Israel, most of which would be intercepted by the Iron Dome. And after all, we have the fourth- or fifth-strongest army in the world, with an estimated arsenal of anywhere from 80 to 200 nuclear weapons (according to foreign sources).

Well, on Saturday, October 7, 2023, Hamas stopped playing by the rules.

And the Netanyahu government, and first and foremost the prime minister himself, bears ultimate responsibility for this failure, and for the many deaths and wounded Israelis as a result of their policy.

..........

 

Edited November 13, 2024 by vvvslaxman

[coffee_rules]

7 minutes ago, bharathh said:

Where were all these bleeding hearts when the plentiful aid pumped into Gaza prior to Oct 7 was misappropriated to build tunnels and buy weapons instead of improving the condition of the people there? Everyone knew that Hamas had an iron hold over the people there - brainwashing and coercing children and families. Why were they all twiddling their thumbs then? Did children's lives not matter then? 

This is what Hamas did to the so-called Gazan economy. They pulled out all infrastructure set up by Israel in Gaza like water pipes etc and used it to build tunnels and rockets. They fired rockets at power stations in Israel that was delivering power to Gaza. So they want Gazans to live with no water or electricity. They embezzled all foreign funds and aid coming into help locals. They also kept the locals under the gun to win rigged polls.. Yahya Sinwar used to brutally torture Palestinians for intel. A lot of Gazans celebrated silently when he was killed like a dog.