Israeli settlers in Occupied Palestine

[zen]

Gaza continues to suffer:

 

 

[zen]

31 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

As I said earlier, picture isn't as clear and straight forward as many are claiming to be. There is lot of history behind it and it's almost impossible to judge it unless we know the sequence step by step.

No one has to judge it. One has to see that both parties get their “state” as per the UN directive on which Israel announced it as a state. Palestine is yet to get its.
 

Also one has to criticize genocide attempts in Gaza, illegal settlements in the West Bank, and so on, while also criticizing terrorist attacks from groups such as Hamas.

 

Picture is clear when you look at 700,000 Palestinians being displaced in the 1940s and living as refugees including in Gaza, while Israelis continue to expand their territory. 
 

 

[zen]

Even BBC has begun to ask questions:

 

 

 

[coffee_rules]

2 hours ago, singhvivek141 said:

Thanks,
As I said earlier, picture isn't as clear and straight forward as many are claiming to be. There is lot of history behind it and it's almost impossible to judge it unless we know the sequence step by step.
That's why, I am keeping my discussions only to the current war and it's origin, and in every case, the blame lies on Hamas and only Hamas. They broke the peace in the region (under influence of a third party) and in turn threw thousands of Palestinian men, women and children on the verge of death.

So called human right chipmunks should actually twist Qatar and other Arab nations to handover Hamas/Hezbollah leaders and fighters to handover them to IDF and stop this war immediately. But we know that won't happen due to unmentionable reasons.

Real picture is no one wants Palestinians, they're a nuisance and hence every Arab country rejects them. Hence thats why Egypt didn't open the Rafah border to absorb them. Last time when Jordan adopted them, they caused so much chaos that Zia Ul Haq had to be called and Black September happened. Not sure why everyone expects Israel to carry their burden.

There is a marked difference between how Israel treated its refugees and how rest of Arab countries treated palestianian refugees. Israel assimilated all displaced Jews from Iraq, Syria, Yemen into  their society as a contributing citizen. Palestinians live in refugee camps in Jordan/Lebanon and are kept poor and impoverished. They can’t get jobs outside. This way, they can show the world how evil Israelis are. Their plan is for one day to return back to Istael and outnumber them on demography. 
 

Arafat and PLO plotted to kill King of Jordan and he expelled him to Lebanon, where they go, Palestinians cause trouble and nobody wants them. MBS has made it illegal for anybody to show support to Gaza/Hamas. Only in the west, we hear chants of “From the river to…”. 
 

There will be no more peace until Hamas or Hezbollah are eliminated. The best time was during 1994 after Oslo accord when Israel made peace with the terrorist Arafat and settled him in West Bank. 
 

That didn’t last long with Rabin killed by Jewish fundamentalist and violence broken when a Jewish extremist killed Arabs in Jerusalem. Retaliatory suicide bombers in Tel Aviv buses and Mossad killing Hamas terrorists. The terrorism industry operating in Qatar/Iran money won’t let any peace accords happen. As soon as Israel takes two steps towards peace, they strike some terror in some part  and Israel starts retaliatory strikes. Hamas hides behind women and children and rest of the world cry about Israelis killing babies.

 

I was sympathetic to Palestine cause before Oct7 or Hamas came to prominence in Gaza politically after 2005, but am numb until Hamas is eliminated. Hamas wants Palestinians to return to their land after all Jews are killed. In their charter, they quote some falana  sura of some falana hadith, that the Allah will not bring in time of judgment  until Muslims kill all Jews of the world. Such a bawasir organization is being supported by western academics .

 

if Arabs can live peacefully and thrive in Israel as law abiding citizens, why can’t Jews in West Bank? These settlers are some Zionist nutters , but they don’t want to live in WB killing all Arabs. They are not peaceful either, but why can’t the world preach Arabs to live in boundaries? 
 

The ultimate motive of these Palestinian Arabs is to eliminate all Jews. If Israel had lost in 1948, the victorious Egyptians, Jordanians, Syrians, Lebanese would have shared all the spoils with nothing left for the so-called local  indigenous “Palestine” population !! 

Edited November 13, 2024 by coffee_rules

[bharathh]

Where were all these bleeding hearts when the plentiful aid pumped into Gaza prior to Oct 7 was misappropriated to build tunnels and buy weapons instead of improving the condition of the people there? Everyone knew that Hamas had an iron hold over the people there - brainwashing and coercing children and families. Why were they all twiddling their thumbs then? Did children's lives not matter then? 

[vvvslaxman]

https://www.thenation.com/article/world/israel-gaza-hamas-war-netanyahu/

 

The Catastrophe of October 7. Why Did It Happen?

 

............. declared unanimously a total opposition to the establishment of a Palestinian state. Instead, Netanyahu relied on a divide-and-rule policy—strengthening Hamas by allowing Qatar to pour in an average of $30 million dollars a month to prop up the Hamas rule over Gaza, while weakening Abbas’s PLO and Palestinian Authority in the West Bank, ensuring that there would be no address for Israeli-Palestinian negotiations—which, in any event, the Netanyahu government wasn’t interested in.

All of this assumed that Hamas would play by the rules. Perhaps periodically sending rockets into Israel, most of which would be intercepted by the Iron Dome. And after all, we have the fourth- or fifth-strongest army in the world, with an estimated arsenal of anywhere from 80 to 200 nuclear weapons (according to foreign sources).

Well, on Saturday, October 7, 2023, Hamas stopped playing by the rules.

And the Netanyahu government, and first and foremost the prime minister himself, bears ultimate responsibility for this failure, and for the many deaths and wounded Israelis as a result of their policy.

..........

 

Edited November 13, 2024 by vvvslaxman

[coffee_rules]

7 minutes ago, bharathh said:

Where were all these bleeding hearts when the plentiful aid pumped into Gaza prior to Oct 7 was misappropriated to build tunnels and buy weapons instead of improving the condition of the people there? Everyone knew that Hamas had an iron hold over the people there - brainwashing and coercing children and families. Why were they all twiddling their thumbs then? Did children's lives not matter then? 

This is what Hamas did to the so-called Gazan economy. They pulled out all infrastructure set up by Israel in Gaza like water pipes etc and used it to build tunnels and rockets. They fired rockets at power stations in Israel that was delivering power to Gaza. So they want Gazans to live with no water or electricity. They embezzled all foreign funds and aid coming into help locals. They also kept the locals under the gun to win rigged polls.. Yahya Sinwar used to brutally torture Palestinians for intel. A lot of Gazans celebrated silently when he was killed like a dog. 

[vvvslaxman]

https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/

For years, Netanyahu propped up Hamas. Now it’s blown up in our faces

The premier’s policy of treating the terror group as a partner, at the expense of Abbas and Palestinian statehood, has resulted in wounds that will take Israel years to heal from

Edited November 13, 2024 by vvvslaxman

[coffee_rules]

@vvvslaxman just share the link man! It is not behind a paywall. It is painful to read inline

[vvvslaxman]

13 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

@vvvslaxman just share the link man! It is not behind a paywall. It is painful to read inline

 

Done.

[coffee_rules]

41 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/

For years, Netanyahu propped up Hamas. Now it’s blown up in our faces

The premier’s policy of treating the terror group as a partner, at the expense of Abbas and Palestinian statehood, has resulted in wounds that will take Israel years to heal from

Netanyahu on Tuesday, however, dismissed those charges, claiming he only allowed Qatari money to flow into Gaza to avoid a humanitarian catastrophe, not to strengthen the arm of the administration there. 

“We wanted to avoid a civilian humanitarian collapse — disease, rampant hunger and other things that would have created an impossible humanitarian situation,” he said. “That’s why successive Israeli governments allowed this money to go in, not in order to strengthen Hamas. We didn’t want to strengthen Hamas at all. We wanted to weaken it and degrade its capabilities as far as we could.”
 

https://www.politico.eu/article/benjamin-netanyahu-hamas-qatar-money-war-israel-gaza-palestine/
 

PLO had no influence in Gaza ever since Hamas started operating from early 90s around time of Oslo accord. They eliminated all Fatah presence in Gaza in a civil war much before 2013 in the alleged money deal. 
 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatah–Hamas_conflict

 

He doesn’t deny money was not sent across, but the timeline of PA is far fetched to say Netanyahu created Hamas!!

[vvvslaxman]

1 minute ago, coffee_rules said:

Netanyahu on Tuesday, however, dismissed those charges, claiming he only allowed Qatari money to flow into Gaza to avoid a humanitarian catastrophe, not to strengthen the arm of the administration there. 

“We wanted to avoid a civilian humanitarian collapse — disease, rampant hunger and other things that would have created an impossible humanitarian situation,” he said. “That’s why successive Israeli governments allowed this money to go in, not in order to strengthen Hamas. We didn’t want to strengthen Hamas at all. We wanted to weaken it and degrade its capabilities as far as we could.”
 

https://www.politico.eu/article/benjamin-netanyahu-hamas-qatar-money-war-israel-gaza-palestine/
 

PLO had no influence in Gaza ever since Hamas started operating from early 90s around time of Oslo accord. They eliminated all Fatah presence in Gaza in a civil war much before 2013 in the alleged money deal. 
 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatah–Hamas_conflict

 

He doesn’t deny money was not sent across, but the timeline of PA is far fetched to say Netanyahu created Hamas!!

 

 

Netanyahu is a liar. This has been covered by many journalists. He says one thing. He does another thing. Hamas doesn't want two states. He doesn't want two states. He found common ground with them. He funded them. It backfired.

[zen]

 

 

[coffee_rules]

8 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

 

Netanyahu is a liar. This has been covered by many journalists. He says one thing. He does another thing. Hamas doesn't want two states. He doesn't want two states. He found common ground with them. He funded them. It backfired.

Why would his successor continue sending the money in 2021? All are liars ? Not defending him, but I am skeptical of the conspiracy theories of epic proportions like GWB caused the 9/11 to happen to wage wars for the MIC. 

Edited November 13, 2024 by coffee_rules

[vvvslaxman]

https://www.timesofisrael.com/biden-said-to-call-netanyahu-a-fking-liar-after-israeli-troops-entered-rafah/

 

 

According to the excerpts, during an April phone call, Biden asked Netanyahu: “What’s your strategy, man?”

 

 

Netanyahu said Israel had to go into Rafah, the Gaza-Egypt border city that the IDF said had become Hamas’s last stronghold in Gaza.

“Bibi, you’ve got no strategy,” responded Biden, according to Woodward, who also wrote that the US president said Netanyahu “doesn’t give a damn” about Hamas and “only about himself.”

 

 

 

After Israel entered Rafah, Biden said of Netanyahu: “He’s a *ing liar.”

“That son of a bitch, Bibi Netanyahu, he’s a bad guy,” said Biden privately, according to Woodward. “He’s a bad *ing guy!”

[mishra]

56 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

https://www.timesofisrael.com/biden-said-to-call-netanyahu-a-fking-liar-after-israeli-troops-entered-rafah/

 

 

According to the excerpts, during an April phone call, Biden asked Netanyahu: “What’s your strategy, man?”

 

 

Netanyahu said Israel had to go into Rafah, the Gaza-Egypt border city that the IDF said had become Hamas’s last stronghold in Gaza.

“Bibi, you’ve got no strategy,” responded Biden, according to Woodward, who also wrote that the US president said Netanyahu “doesn’t give a damn” about Hamas and “only about himself.”

 

 

 

After Israel entered Rafah, Biden said of Netanyahu: “He’s a *ing liar.”

“That son of a bitch, Bibi Netanyahu, he’s a bad guy,” said Biden privately, according to Woodward. “He’s a bad *ing guy!”

See , Biden is out because he was definitely wrong on America. Whether he was wrong on Israel, atleast election results cant conclusively confirm that.

 

Now why did it happened what happened on Oct 7 and later.

 

1. Israelis had management control of Phildelphia corridor which they gave up that allowed smuggling of weapons.

2. There was a UN resolution for Hezbollah to get behind 30 Km from lenon Israel border and they never went back. ie US/UN did not enforce the resolution.

3. Abraham accord and I2U2 which effectively meant recognistion of Israel among ME nations is further delayed for considerable time. Effectively Iran played Geo Politcal game using its proxies.

 

Blinken himself said that Hamas never accepted hostage deal which could have brough Peace which logically means Victim Card was part of the Iranian/Palestinian war game. Qataris are saying to Hamas to please leave for Sudan

Edited November 13, 2024 by mishra

[ravishingravi]

It's interesting that an actual genocide happening in South Sudan or an actual genocide happened already in Nagora Karaba. But it doesnt get discussed at all. 

 

But this issue files up high intensity emotions. 

[zen]

“Gaza City looks like Stalingrad after the 2nd World War”

“Israel is using starvation tactics”

 

”Israel is not telling the truth”

 

 

Edited November 13, 2024 by zen

[Vicks57]

17 minutes ago, zen said:

“Gaza City looks like Stalingrad after the 2nd World War”

“Israel is using starvation tactics”

 

”Israel is not telling the truth”

 

 

 

 

Only Morons defend Israel and its actions. Thankfully, We got a lot of morons in ICF

[zen]

5 minutes ago, Vicks57 said:

 

 

Only Morons defend Israel and its actions. Thankfully, We got a lot of morons in ICF

A lack of EQ and general awareness of the situation (In India, many people don’t even stop when they see someone in an accident as we could be late for a meeting. Human life is valued relatively less) . 
 

For many it could be like if it is Muslims, we clap for their suffering without probably worrying about what is right or wrong.