Hardik Pandya v Irfan Pathan - which player had more success in international cricket?

[Ankit_sharma03]

49 minutes ago, maniac said:

Only if Pathan was invested in and backed like Pandya. Feels weird saying that because Pathan himself got a lot of chances for his “tailunt”

pathan wasnt invested in ?? or backed ?? ye kab hua ?

[maniac]

6 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

pathan wasnt invested in ?? or backed ?? ye kab hua ?

he was but not as much as Pandya. He was mom in WT20 2007 but out of favor by 2008. Similarly he was Indias better bowlers in 2012 Aus LoI leg of the tour and by 2013 he came back and was not even in the X1 in England for CT and then that was the end of his career.

 

He won more matches for India than Pandya ever did but while on one hand Pandya seems like a guaranteed starter (which he should be in T20) in all formats if he starts bowling, Irfan later in his career seemed one bad match away. While Pathan has himself to blame, the rise of RP Singh and his friendship with Dhoni did cut his career short.

[The Realist]

15 minutes ago, maniac said:

he was but not as much as Pandya. He was mom in WT20 2007 but out of favor by 2008. Similarly he was Indias better bowlers in 2012 Aus LoI leg of the tour and by 2013 he came back and was not even in the X1 in England for CT and then that was the end of his career.

 

He won more matches for India than Pandya ever did but while on one hand Pandya seems like a guaranteed starter (which he should be in T20) in all formats if he starts bowling, Irfan later in his career seemed one bad match away. While Pathan has himself to blame, the rise of RP Singh's belly and his friendship with Dhoni including answering a SOS from Miami beach did cut his career short.

 

Fixed

[Ankit_sharma03]

25 minutes ago, maniac said:

he was but not as much as Pandya. He was mom in WT20 2007 but out of favor by 2008. Similarly he was Indias better bowlers in 2012 Aus LoI leg of the tour and by 2013 he came back and was not even in the X1 in England for CT and then that was the end of his career.

 

the problem post 2007 it was his fitness, he use to get unfit so much that it was getting tough to pick him and his pace started dropping to a worse extent. 

yea coz by 2013 he was done n dusted even IPL sides started ignoring. U cant ask for backing after 9- 10 yrs.

Even selectors were pissed as he use to be unfit whole year and suddenly got fit for IPL, this happened for quite a few years . 

 

Quote

He won more matches for India than Pandya ever did but while on one hand Pandya seems like a guaranteed starter (which he should be in T20) in all formats if he starts bowling, Irfan later in his career seemed one bad match away. While Pathan has himself to blame, the rise of RP Singh and his friendship with Dhoni did cut his career short.

Pathan was backed enough at start but beyond a point his dip became so bad that it was tough 

RP singh was a better bowler those days untill his dip came.

Pandya is as bakced as pathan was. U dnt back an unfit player or someone who is dipping day by day. Pathan was given no.3 more then pandya is promoted if thats not backing then what is ??

In last few years their was jaddu as well who was atleast in those days giving full quota of overs n great fielder. On many days pathan was taken for cleaner plus his batting n fielding started dipping

 

Pandya, pathan, jaddu none can complain of lack of backing. if any one yusuf pathan cud have been backed more but then he competed with raina

Edited July 7, 2021 by Ankit_sharma03

[Ankit_sharma03]

Pathan like others fast bowlers in his time - balaji, sree, Munaf all suffered from lack of fats bowling culture. Which is now their in Indian cricket hence we dont see anyone falling apart that badly. 

All of them including nehra, zak had major fitness issues those days and constant fiddling with action, wrist position affected everyone. Zak was saved by county stints and obv u need desire as well which others may have lacked. Kudos to even nehra who bowled at good pace even till his retirement with that fragile body. Had these guys plays in todays culture i doubt they wud have drifted like that. A player like pathan wud have been a huge luxury to Indian LOI team today even yusuf 

[Ankit_sharma03]

44 minutes ago, The Realist said:

Both are/were average. Limited success in short bursts but did not have the quality to be able to maintain it over longer periods.

Pathan was a high quality cricketer , problem was fitness n after a point post IPL i felt he took it to easy 

IF he lacked quality he wudnt have done well on tour down under that to on his debut tour against that mighty aussie. 

 

 

[Straight Drive]

Irfan Pathan was better imo. I feel even when Pandya's carrer ends, he won't be able to surpass what Irfan Pathan has achieved with bat and ball. Fielding wise though Pandya is clearly the better one.

[maniac]

3 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

 

 

Pandya is as bakced as pathan was. U dnt back an unfit player or someone who is dipping day by day.

do you see any irony here?

[Ankit_sharma03]

35 minutes ago, maniac said:

do you see any irony here?

Did u see pandya dropping pace like pathan or is pandya career enough long to say he is getting injured series after series. 

He has had a serious back injury after which he has taken it slow , so i dnt get whats the fuzz ?? Pathan injury cycle started from 2nd year and his pace dipped at that minute

 

Irony mat dhundho , pura logic samjho. I dnt get it how ppl take injuries so lightly thinking that player gets injured on purpose. When has been pandya carried as unfit player to a tour ?? which is what i said how could pathan have been even backed if he wasnt even fit to play

[maniac]

Just now, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Did u see pandya dropping pace like pathan or is pandya career enough long to say he is getting injured series after series. 

 

yes he didn’t drop pace because he is an allrounder who doesn’t bowl often where as Irfan was the strike bowler and at his lowest phase a proper third seamer.

[Ankit_sharma03]

4 minutes ago, maniac said:

yes he didn’t drop pace because he is an allrounder who doesn’t bowl often where as Irfan was the strike bowler and at his lowest phase a proper third seamer.

He didnt drop pace coz he is letting his injury heal properly and wants to bowl out as he use to. Pathan pace dropped like many in those times who use to start holding themselves back or made changes in action.  Pandya on other hand now has right set of people in Indian team or MI to help him make certain tweaks in his action to avoid injury. One thing im sure pandya's fitness wont go down the drain like pathan's did

Difference is the fast bowling culture n understanding is better. This wasnt just the case with pathan it also happened with Zak , nehra n many that time. Irfan just kept going downwards n downwards in terms of pace. If anything pandya not being a strike bowler can afford to loose pace but Pathan on the other hand being a main bowler shudnt have

Edited July 7, 2021 by Ankit_sharma03

[maniac]

Just now, Ankit_sharma03 said:

He didnt drop pace he is letting his injury heal and wants to bowl out as he use to. Pathan pace dropped like many in those times who use to start holding themselves back or made changes in action. 

Difference is the fast bowling culture n understanding is better. This wasnt just the case with pathan it also happened with Zak , nehra n many that time. Irfan just kept going downwards n downwards in terms of pace. If anything pandya not being a strike bowler can afford to loose pace but Pathan on the other hand being a main bowler shudnt have

bro I know you are a pandya fan and I don’t want to go down this rabbit hole with you but unless you are biased you can clearly see that Pathan wasn’t really backed as much as Pandya later on because Dhoni  didn’t rate him. Simple as that. I am not complaining because Pathan did become average towards the end and as you said wasn’t reliable with his fitness and on the other hand Pandya does get a jamai raja treatment. Whatever the reason if you and TM think he is sobers reincarnated or whatever but clearly some players are treated differently than others.

 

Why didnt someone like Jayant Yadav or Karun Nair get long ropes while Jadeja got it,Ishant got it. Oh so and and so was more “talented” than x y z is subjective. There isn’t clearly a benchmark for who is backed and who isn’t. As much as I am a supporter of Rohit and Ishant I will admit that they got a longer rope than other players and then there are cases of players who may be didn’t get the same opportunities.    

[Ankit_sharma03]

1 hour ago, maniac said:

bro I know you are a pandya fan and I don’t want to go down this rabbit hole with you but unless you are biased you can clearly see that Pathan wasn’t really backed as much as Pandya later on because Dhoni  didn’t rate him. Simple as that. I am not complaining because Pathan did become average towards the end and as you said wasn’t reliable with his fitness and on the other hand Pandya does get a jamai raja treatment. Whatever the reason if you and TM think he is sobers reincarnated or whatever but clearly some players are treated differently than others.

 

Why didnt someone like Jayant Yadav or Karun Nair get long ropes while Jadeja got it,Ishant got it. Oh so and and so was more “talented” than x y z is subjective. There isn’t clearly a benchmark for who is backed and who isn’t. As much as I am a supporter of Rohit and Ishant I will admit that they got a longer rope than other players and then there are cases of players who may be didn’t get the same opportunities.    

 

Im a pandya fan doesnt mean i was not a pathan fan, i wrote a post above where i said in an ATG india ODI XI ill consider pathan 

after playing 120 ODI and 30 test , 24 t20 no one can claim he wasnt backed properly . 

 

No one has gotten a jamai raja treatment but if u have to 3 names that will come under wud be Ishant, Jaddu and rohit sharma . 

 

• Jayant yadav attitude was an issue where there were news about him missing his state side games faking injury and he didnt offer anything special . He doesnt add anything to attack being an offie when ashwin was already their
• Karun nair was dropped coz of Rohit sharma (u shudnt be asking that question)

only 11 cricketers can play and u cant back everyone, not possible.  This has happened in past as well not just in Indian team 

 

this symo who avg 23 after 55 games, i remeber pandya around that time had an avg of 31 and ppl like u were crying a river

 

 

 

This is yuvraj singh after 5 yrs, in comparison pandya after 60 games is avg 34

 

 

by the time pandya plays 111 games im sure his avg will be 40 + 

 

 

I can take cricketers around the world and show their crappy record to show how many got jamai raja treatment and pandya wud be standing way ahead of them. 

Its simple u see the right talent and back them, if anything pandya numbers are very decent so the point of backing doesnt even come coz he owns a slot. He offers skills that no one does in India, if u offer any team certain skills that they lack they will play u no matter what

 

[Serpico]

9 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

This is yuvraj singh after 5 yrs, in comparison pandya after 60 games is avg 34

you need to account for the odi avg inflation in last decade. Jayasuriya's batting avg was 32.4 so, yuvi's 29.8 avg was not bad at all. And he performed in important games right away

[Ankit_sharma03]

38 minutes ago, Serpico said:

you need to account for the odi avg inflation in last decade. Jayasuriya's batting avg was 32.4 so, yuvi's 29.8 avg was not bad at all. And he performed in important games right away

jayasuria was also mighty inconsistent. Even if lets say yuvraj avg wud have increased at best it wud have been 32 coz problem for his low avg was that he use to bat low same as pandya. When u bat at 6 n 7 ur numbers wont look good most times , dhoni was a rare case. People also forget yuvraj was mighty inconsistent himself who had one major area of concern game agaisnt spin in intial years

 

[Vilander]

Let us see

 

Tests 

Bat : ip> hd

Bowl: ip >> hd

 

ODI 

Bat : hd - ip

Bowl: ip >>hd

 

T20 

Bat : hd> ip

Bowl: ip-hd

 

So ip > hd as of now

[Lord]

8 hours ago, Vilander said:

Let us see

 

Tests 

Bat : ip> hd

Bowl: ip >> hd

 

ODI 

Bat : hd - ip

Bowl: ip >>hd

 

T20 

Bat : hd> ip

Bowl: ip-hd

 

So ip > hd as of now

 

should be hp

 

 

[zen]

Tendulkar made his debut in 1989 and scored his first 100 in ODIs in 1994. He was rated highly for his talent

 

Similarly, SDP, who mainly plays LOIs, is in a higher tier than Irfan, who is bowling AR. While SDP is now a batting one, in the mold of probably a Symonds  

 

This decade will show if and how SDP does justice to his potential 

[vvvslaxman]

Irfan over worked. Bowled like 134 overs in the Pakistan series.

[vvvslaxman]

On 7/7/2021 at 7:48 AM, maniac said:

Only if Pathan was invested in and backed like Pandya. Feels weird saying that because Pathan himself got a lot of chances for his “tailunt”

 

Pandya but for his six hitting skills, would not have played for India. Technically he is not as sound as Irfan. His batting should be considered a bonus. To do that he should be reasonably good enough in one department.  If he is so so in both the departments it will be a problem. First he has to be available for selection.

 

If Irfan had made debut recently he would have had longer ropes. Why? Simple reason is India has become a one-dimensional unit now. Back in the days when Irfan played we had so many part timers.  Tendulkar, Ganguly, Sehwag,  Yuvraj later Raina. Nowadays India is desperately looking for players who can be reasonably good in both. A reason why VIjay Shankar, Kedar Jadhav had chances.  Back then bowlers could bat. batsmen could bowl. This is exactly why Pandya is treated like Kapil Dev, Ian Botham.