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Youths pass casteist remarks at Indian hockey player Vandana Katariya’s kin, one arrested

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12 minutes ago, Khota said:

So true. Lot of desis look down upon their brothers as if they are inferior.

Yup. It is slightly difficult in TN because we don't have caste in our surname, but still people find clever ways to find caste. In TN villages, people can find caste from the street they live and occupation. Sometimes they even directly ask. In Urban areas it is more subtle but it is still there. 

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2 hours ago, G_B_ said:

 

The best way to counter that is via the bjp under modi and shah.

 

They have built up alliance of non dominant obc and sc communities in most states. 

 

Karnataka is an outlier. 

 

Regional outfits are very much caste oriented at their core

 

No political party can change this. This needs a cultural change among people. The govt is already doing their bit, providing opportunities for people to get out of their caste jobs that they have been doing for generations. 

 

All we can do is encourage intercaste marriage, stop teaching about caste pride to kids and hope it changes in two or three generations.

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6 minutes ago, Mariyam said:

I agree with this.

We should also refrain from mock calling others as peacefool/peacefull/ROPer etc. 

A slur in English is still a slur :dontknow:

I have stopped it since you and sandeep objected last, but I still don’t like liberals whitewashing jihadis and calling out any criticism of Islamists as Islamophobia 

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49 minutes ago, kepler37b said:

A libtard and andolan jeevi , Would not want to be robbed of opportunities to get outraged.

 

Will not be surpised if this turns out to be the case of her family using SC/ST atrocity act to settle scores with neighbors.

 

 

As expected there is a lot more to this casteist "atrocity"

 

 

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3 hours ago, ash said:

 

No political party can change this. This needs a cultural change among people. The govt is already doing their bit, providing opportunities for people to get out of their caste jobs that they have been doing for generations. 

 

All we can do is encourage intercaste marriage, stop teaching about caste pride to kids and hope it changes in two or three generations.

 

The only way to stop this caste nonsense is to eliminate recording or playing up a person's caste altogether. Caste based reservations should have stopped 15 yrs after it was introduced. Now a normal person in general category cannot beg a seat by merit. In states like TN you are penalized for being born into an upper caste community. People from dominant communities are fighting for reservations. 

 

Change caste based to economics based reservation. In 1 generation society will change on its own. Until we keep vilifying/victimizing some ppl and playing up their caste, this nonsense will continue. If ppl still want to identify with their caste - as long as there is no discrimination due to it - it is fine. 

 

The CCP has pretty much eradicated religion from one of the most religious countries in the world in a couple of generations. Caste needs to be banned for any and all official uses and it will fade into insignificance in a short time. Unfortunately that will not happen as most non-national parties have their foundations on exploiting these fissures in society.

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21 minutes ago, bharathh said:

 

The only way to stop this caste nonsense is to eliminate recording or playing up a person's caste altogether. Caste based reservations should have stopped 15 yrs after it was introduced. Now a normal person in general category cannot beg a seat by merit. In states like TN you are penalized for being born into an upper caste community. People from dominant communities are fighting for reservations. 

 

Change caste based to economics based reservation. In 1 generation society will change on its own. Until we keep vilifying/victimizing some ppl and playing up their caste, this nonsense will continue. If ppl still want to identify with their caste - as long as there is no discrimination due to it - it is fine. 

 

The CCP has pretty much eradicated religion from one of the most religious countries in the world in a couple of generations. Caste needs to be banned for any and all official uses and it will fade into insignificance in a short time. Unfortunately that will not happen as most non-national parties have their foundations on exploiting these fissures in society.

 this is a very black and white  argument without understanding the ground reality. As I said, just stopping the caste record on paper would not stop casteism. Caste has thrived for generations, even before official record keeping. Do you think a kid in a village knows about caste only from his caste certificate? Or is he taught which caste he belongs to from childhood?. 

 

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3 minutes ago, ash said:

 this is a very black and white  argument without understanding the ground reality. As I said, just stopping the caste record on paper would not stop casteism. Caste has thrived for generations, even before official record keeping. Do you think a kid in a village knows about caste only from his caste certificate? Or is he taught which caste he belongs to from childhood?. 

 

Has reservations made things better? It's been 70 yrs now. Are things better? The amt of reservations are only going up. Now everyone wants reservations. How many ppl who actually deserve reservations actually get them? Do the same reservations help the bonded laborer in villages or do most seats in the reserved category go to already well-off ppl from supposedly lower castes who have availed of this benefit for multiple generations now? 

 

Some things are black and white. Those that want to prolong this mess are the only ones who keep harping on this. Unfortunately no one in the political class will touch this as they will commit political suicide. Affirmative actions only make society more divided. The only one that really makes sense is helping the Economically weaker sections of society. Caste shouldn't even be considered. 

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This lady is a case in point as to how ppl game this reservation and caste nonsense - https://theprint.in/india/ifs-officer-devyani-khobragade-pens-book-on-ambedkar-to-teach-kids-about-dalit-struggles/381019/

 

Apparently being Dalit didn't occur to her when she and her father were inducted into the IFS. She was posted in one of the most plum positions possible. Yet she suddenly remembered she was a Dalit and the atrocities on Dalits when she got caught for multiple frauds. Her father is an even bigger fraud.

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1 minute ago, bharathh said:

Has reservations made things better? It's been 70 yrs now. Are things better? The amt of reservations are only going up. Now everyone wants reservations. How many ppl who actually deserve reservations actually get them? Do the same reservations help the bonded laborer in villages or do most seats in the reserved category go to already well-off ppl from supposedly lower castes who have availed of this benefit for multiple generations now? 

 

Some things are black and white. Those that want to prolong this mess are the only ones who keep harping on this. Unfortunately no one in the political class will touch this as they will commit political suicide. Affirmative actions only make society more divided. The only one that really makes sense is helping the Economically weaker sections of society. Caste shouldn't even be considered. 

 

 

What's with the focus only on economic condition?

 

Do you think if a Dalit becomes rich, he  will not face casteism?

 

Does society treat a poor Upper caste person the same as a poor Dalit? 

 

Reservation is not a poverty alleviation scheme. It is to ensure that we have equal representation of all castes in all levels of society. Reservation is not the solution for casteism. It is just a pain killer to treat the symptom. The root cause needs a cultural change. 

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Just now, ash said:

 

 

What's with the focus only on economic condition?

 

Do you think if a Dalit becomes rich, he  will not face casteism?

 

Does society treat a poor Upper caste person the same as a poor Dalit? 

 

Reservation is not a poverty alleviation scheme. It is to ensure that we have equal representation of all castes in all levels of society. Reservation is not the solution for casteism. It is just a pain killer to treat the symptom. The root cause needs a cultural change. 

In cities I don't see the same. In fact over the last 20 yrs I can state that in all the major cities caste is rarely much of an issue. In a rural setting this will change as well.

 

If money and education at the expense of more deserving people are not helping - how is this system helping? It is only killing the hopes and dreams of more deserving folks who cannot help which caste they are born into. Why should their liberties and rights be trampled on? Why continue such a discriminatory system? 

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7 minutes ago, bharathh said:

This lady is a case in point as to how ppl game this reservation and caste nonsense - https://theprint.in/india/ifs-officer-devyani-khobragade-pens-book-on-ambedkar-to-teach-kids-about-dalit-struggles/381019/

 

Apparently being Dalit didn't occur to her when she and her father were inducted into the IFS. She was posted in one of the most plum positions possible. Yet she suddenly remembered she was a Dalit and the atrocities on Dalits when she got caught for multiple frauds. Her father is an even bigger fraud.

These cases are what we call a statistical outlier.  Out of 100 cases, we see one or two like this. 

 

Real data.

 

Social group Household income (in Rs./year) Wealth/  

SC 89,356 12.7  

ST 75,216 10.2  

OBC 1,04,099 14.7  

FC (Brahmin) 1,67,013 18.2  

FC(Non-Brahmin) 1,64,633 17.9  

Overall 1,13,222 14.6  

 

In terms of percentiles in wealth index by caste.

 

Source: (NFHS 2015-16, pg 31)

  

Social group 0-20 (Poorest quntile) 20-40 40-60 60-80  

SC 25.9 24.2 21.9 16.7  

ST 45.2 25.5 14.9 9.1  

OBC 18.2 19.6 21.1 22.3  

Other 9.4 15.4 18.4 22.8  

 

A score of greater than 20 means, there is larger representation of a social group in that quintile than overall for India. You can see the "lower"-caste have a higher representation in the poorer quntiles. We can see that 50.1% and 70.7% and of the SC and ST households respectively are in the two poorest quintiles.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, ash said:

These cases are what we call a statistical outlier.  Out of 100 cases, we see one or two like this. 

 

Real data.

 

Social group Household income (in Rs./year) Wealth/  

SC 89,356 12.7  

ST 75,216 10.2  

OBC 1,04,099 14.7  

FC (Brahmin) 1,67,013 18.2  

FC(Non-Brahmin) 1,64,633 17.9  

Overall 1,13,222 14.6  

 

In terms of percentiles in wealth index by caste.

 

Source: (NFHS 2015-16, pg 31)

  

Social group 0-20 (Poorest quntile) 20-40 40-60 60-80  

SC 25.9 24.2 21.9 16.7  

ST 45.2 25.5 14.9 9.1  

OBC 18.2 19.6 21.1 22.3  

Other 9.4 15.4 18.4 22.8  

 

A score of greater than 20 means, there is larger representation of a social group in that quintile than overall for India. You can see the "lower"-caste have a higher representation in the poorer quntiles. We can see that 50.1% and 70.7% and of the SC and ST households respectively are in the two poorest quintiles.

 

 

You mentioned earlier that despite Dalits and other ppl from lower castes moving up the money and education scale they still "feel" low. 

 

How is affirmative action helping then? 

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28 minutes ago, bharathh said:

In cities I don't see the same. In fact over the last 20 yrs I can state that in all the major cities caste is rarely much of an issue. In a rural setting this will change as well.

 

If money and education at the expense of more deserving people are not helping - how is this system helping? It is only killing the hopes and dreams of more deserving folks who cannot help which caste they are born into. Why should their liberties and rights be trampled on? Why continue such a discriminatory system? 

To put it simply, being born in a upper caste comes with a privilege. A privilege that you won't face casteism. For that privilege, reservation is a small price to pay. 

 

It is like buying a subscription to see ad free content. You pay money not to see ads, here your birth gives the privilege and you pay with having to study harder and score more.

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26 minutes ago, bharathh said:

You mentioned earlier that despite Dalits and other ppl from lower castes moving up the money and education scale they still "feel" low. 

 

How is affirmative action helping then? 

Answer is in your point. Urbanisation reduces casteism, but it is still there.  Affirmative action helps them in escaping the casteist villages, gives them a fighting chance. 

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1 hour ago, ash said:

 

 

What's with the focus only on economic condition?

 

Do you think if a Dalit becomes rich, he  will not face casteism?

 

Does society treat a poor Upper caste person the same as a poor Dalit? 

 

Reservation is not a poverty alleviation scheme. It is to ensure that we have equal representation of all castes in all levels of society. Reservation is not the solution for casteism. It is just a pain killer to treat the symptom. The root cause needs a cultural change. 


Why are there no reservations for SC judges? Editors in Major news media? Editors Guild? Corporates Board of Directors? Bank Managers etc? It is a communist agenda to divide and fight for meagre resources at the middle and bottom! Why does the established kin of politicians like Kharge or Paswan need reservations? It is serving no purpose 

Edited by coffee_rules
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5 hours ago, ash said:

 

No political party can change this. This needs a cultural change among people. The govt is already doing their bit, providing opportunities for people to get out of their caste jobs that they have been doing for generations. 

 

All we can do is encourage intercaste marriage, stop teaching about caste pride to kids and hope it changes in two or three generations.

say what now. intercaste marriages happen but what do you mean by encourage it. are you a spokesperson for thiruma :laugh: this is soft communism. that doesn't solve anything. its just a fuel for more caste animosity. Of course you would want that. politicians and their lackeys like to warm themselves in the heat created by such frictions. even dmk and admk has vck and pmk in a short leash. they have more sense than you.

also reservation creates more gobarmint jobs for sc st people with low marks. no wonder our gobarmint is so useless in doing their own jobs. private companies are more about skills and only the best get in no matter what the caste is. all the more reason to privatise as much as possible and leave only the most necessary things to govt.

the said player who got abused got more money from private companies than from indian olympic committee. thiruma didn't fight for her. she fought for herself and with merit, comes the accolades.

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1 hour ago, ash said:

These cases are what we call a statistical outlier.  Out of 100 cases, we see one or two like this. 

 

Real data.

 

Social group Household income (in Rs./year) Wealth/  

SC 89,356 12.7  

ST 75,216 10.2  

OBC 1,04,099 14.7  

FC (Brahmin) 1,67,013 18.2  

FC(Non-Brahmin) 1,64,633 17.9  

Overall 1,13,222 14.6  

 

In terms of percentiles in wealth index by caste.

 

Source: (NFHS 2015-16, pg 31)

  

Social group 0-20 (Poorest quntile) 20-40 40-60 60-80  

SC 25.9 24.2 21.9 16.7  

ST 45.2 25.5 14.9 9.1  

OBC 18.2 19.6 21.1 22.3  

Other 9.4 15.4 18.4 22.8  

 

A score of greater than 20 means, there is larger representation of a social group in that quintile than overall for India. You can see the "lower"-caste have a higher representation in the poorer quntiles. We can see that 50.1% and 70.7% and of the SC and ST households respectively are in the two poorest quintiles.

 

 

These are numbers based on focus on education, not dependent on reservation in government jobs and totally dependent on private sector jobs where there is no reservations 

Edited by coffee_rules
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58 minutes ago, bharathh said:

You mentioned earlier that despite Dalits and other ppl from lower castes moving up the money and education scale they still "feel" low. 

 

How is affirmative action helping then? 

when they get economic parity, why are they still "low" about caste. this makes no sense. unless its agenda driven of course

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1 hour ago, ash said:

Answer is in your point. Urbanisation reduces casteism, but it is still there.  Affirmative action helps them in escaping the casteist villages, gives them a fighting chance. 

Urbanization means private sector which is reducing casteism. Only merit succeeds there, skill Dev, education without reservations is key.  We were lower middle class with one earning member. Only way we could come out of poverty was education. . Govt should invest in low cost education.  AA helps some from rural , but it is filtered out to only who are already rich. 

Edited by coffee_rules
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1 hour ago, ash said:

To put it simply, being born in a upper caste comes with a privilege. A privilege that you won't face casteism. For that privilege, reservation is a small price to pay. 

 

It is like buying a subscription to see ad free content. You pay money not to see ads, here your birth gives the privilege and you pay with having to study harder and score more.


This is a liberal deduction of white privilege narrative of the west mapped to India’s UC privilege. They equate racism=casteism. There is only one privileged class in the world, the rich. There is no privilege for poor UC even in Urban  India. They don’t play victim and bend their heads down, work hard and come out of misery. Meanwhile activists, Dalit equalityLabs kind of NGOs funded by nobody- knows-who runs the narrative of UC privilege and play the victim card. Socialism is the sanctuary of the lazy and product of division. Karl Marx was the most racist guy on the planet 

Edited by coffee_rules
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