The biggest flops at the IPL

[tnameh]

No offence meant' date=' but you gotto check up on your linguistic skills dude. If a high-profile player misses out on a high-profile tournament due to entirely natural reasons like fitness issues, at the worst you term it a 'disappointment', not a 'flop'. Thats just gross mis-representation of the situation. Sachin cant be held responsible for his fitness. And you gotto understand, Sachin's body is tremendously fragile now. Thats not a surprise, considering how old he is now and the workload he had to shoulder, for the last 17 years of his life.[/quote'] Your comment shows you were so busy finding holes in my argument, you didn't even read it carefully. I never said getting injured was his fault. However, your saying that Sachin can't be held responsible for his fitness is akin to saying a politician can't be held responsible for corruption. Dude, isn't a sportsman's primary concern to keep himself fit? :haha:

Really' date=' the biggest joke is your initial list, which is this, [/quote'] You accuse me of arguing without my facts, and then you go and do it yourself. I could understand if you disagree with my argument calling it a joke. But you do me a total disservice by not explaining WHY this is a joke. A little stepping down from your high pedestal of BBing glory to explain your argument won't hurt, I'm sure.

When we have 'Icon' players like Dravid and Ganguly visually and evidently hurting their team's chances' date=' you leave out all of 'em and focus on one particular player alone, who didnt even play a match. So much for your fair-mindedness and objectivity. At the least, if you had included some other names, your list would have sounded a bit more credible. [/quote'] I dropped only one name. My intention wasn't to take on Sachin, but just to invite comments for a discussion which we have now engaged in. If I had listed 4,500 things on what I disliked about the IPL, would it have left anything for you guys to discuss? Hence, I mentioned just four things that got this debate started. If I excluded Dravid and Ganguly from my flop list, well, mea culpa. But I didnt exclude them because I wanted to take on Sachin for the sake of taking on Sachin. Go back in the thread to the part where I agreed with a commenter saying the two million dollars on Ganguly and Dravid seem equally wasted so far. Dude, you're not reading the thread right.

Sachin? Fastidious bout his image?... what a ridiculous assessment! BTW' date=' what are the 'kind of peoples' he is generally seen with? I am curious, can you give me the list. [/quote'] Why don't you go and ask Sanjay Manjrekar about how quickly he was dropped off Sachin's friends list? And we are talking about the pre Elephant-in-the-drawing-room days.

First tell us who was this inform player' date=' the exact match and the circumstances that surrounded it. Then we shall take it from there.[/quote'] Oh my god, there you go again. READ MY RESPONSES DUDE! PLEASE! You waste precious kilobytes on this server space by asking questions without reading other people's posts. Is this how you've built up your rank, by asking repeatedly stupid questions that have already being answered?

Dont even know how to respond to this BS' date=' to be honest. [/quote'] Again, who are you? Ram Jethmalani or something? In a respectable debate, you can call an argument BS... but please, you need to explain WHY you call it BS. Otherwise, it's plain unfair to call it BS. I missed a point there. Nehra got in the team apparently because he's good friends with Harbhajan. And who is Harbhajan in good terms with? Why is it so hard for you to believe that your god isn't so god-like in his private life? He's only human, he can do stupid things.

He has washed off his hands? Did he actually call up and tell you that he has done that?

He didn't call me up. This is my opinion. Aren't I allowed to have an opinion on people? Aren't you allowed to call him "god", when he's only human? Truth is, Tendulkar took on this T20 challenge, created a team that is not only the most expensive one in the IPL, but also the worst so far. Tendulkar had come home after some god-level performances in Australia and burnt his hands with the team he put together. I expect a great captain (playing or non-playing) to get his side together and put up one hell of a show no matter how tough the going is. I will wait to see if Tendulkar does that. If he's not able to, then it would be another blot on his captaincy record --- and it doesn't have anything to do with his playing a game or being fit.

[tnameh]

No offense' date=' but a random internet poster being a complete nutjob is highly likely than Sachin being a egoistical *******.[/quote'] I admit to being a nutcase *******. 100 per cent. :haha:

[tnameh]

You provided a CI article about why they left out N Kulkarni. Praveen Amre has provided the answers as to why they left him out. Did Sachin fail? No he made a century. I just skimmed over the article and it says that they brought in W. Mota for Kulkarni' date=' who did not fare very well. Where does it say that to accommodate Sachin, Kulkarni was left out? Isn't he in the Mumbai squad right now? He's been doing pretty well (fielding & bowling). To say that Sachin is selfish is arrogance and ignorance.[/quote'] Kulkarni was dropped for that one game to play Tendulkar, who is normally away on national duty when the Ranji season is on. This is my version of events in that game. I gathered my information from some of Mumbai's players, who do not wish to be named. You can choose to believe my version of events or you can choose to call it bullshit. I am ok with you choose to call it bullshit, because that is your opinion. I do not have a photograph or a video or an audio to back my claim. However, I know where I am coming from. Same with Cricinfo. There are things said off the record to journalists. It is for the journalist's information. He can't take on somone like Sachin without evidence. I am not a reporter. Why can't I make an allegation against Sachin in a private forum?

How is Sachin supposed to be a great captain if he is not even playing? How is that not an illogical claim to make? Same goes to "handling the team."

Wrong. He made this team. He was responsible for the hirings. Can he now take the same players to reach the IPL knockouts and prove his critics wrong?

Ashwell Prince has only played one T20I. How can you judge him off of that. He's played terrifically in Test Matches. Why is that a bad choice?

There's a good reason why he doesn't have T20 experience. He may not be fit for the format. Besides, he was even dropped from the ODI squad. Why?

[tnameh]

"Mumbai' date=' last in the league with its star bowler and secondary captain banned, were looking like a lost cause until The Master himself singlehandedly saves their season." [/quote'] I'd love to see this happen.

[Chandan]

You lost all the credibility in your initial post tnameh by mentioning the name of Sanjay Manjarekar and his white elephant column!! How relevent his column was, was proved very well by Sachin in CB Series final and how lame your other points are, are proved by your hatred tirade against Sachin without any evidence. You are nothing different from another Sachin haters. BTW, did Sachin, Ganguly and Dravid asked BCCI to give them icon status? If not, how can they be found guilty to it? This is your most lame statement that since such and such player is paid more he needs to perform better than others!!

[donkey]

This IPL means different things to different people ( and players). First of all , there are at least 3-4 teams who have been bought and are in the tournament just as "glorified self advertising". Shah Rukh Khan's KKR, mallaya's RC, Ambani's Mumbai are certainly meant for this purpose. These folks have plenty of black money, and are spending some of it to legitimise accounts in a big way, and gaining media/mass image mileage for that efforts. Its not about cricket, just about being "seen in a cricket context" by the masses, and naturally they will go with players like Ganguly, Dravid, Sachin etc. The key is these old and ageing players know it, and the franchise owners too would have told them to take it easy. Thats why you find teams like BRC, KKR and others having cricketers who are certainly unfit for t20 cricket, but are in fact being given "benefit purses" for being the chamchas of the other seniors. Sunil Joshi, Kumble et al have been "selected" for this benefit program by Dravid. SRK bought Akthar whose value in any game is questionable...just adds spice to the team. Similarily Bhajji is always Sachin's buddy and adds color. Kallis always used to praise Dravid, is a similar player and gets rewarded. In short , this is just a fancy outing for these teams and their owners, the onus being on team partys, film shoots, promos, music, bollywood branding and all that jazz. The promoters and "icons" gain much more than money...if you notice , all these Dravids, gangulys etc are out of the ODI scene and hence out of tv viewership and so dropped as advt brands. The IPL came as a huge blessing for these old foggies to play in color on tv, be seen often and remain in public memory along with flashy businessmen/actors etc. Doesnt hurt their public image with those masses to whom cricket is irrelevant. Their target is those millions of ppl who dont really follow the game, but just soem spicy news on the game/players and for this it doesnt matter if they have a string of failures, if once in a bluemoon they get a 50 which will be hyped by their bootlicking buddies in the media. I have excluded the Kings 11 from the above, because although the Zinta girl is a movie star, she at least selecetd a team competitive in limited overs, and even with her limited knowledge of cricket, she and her team havent done too badly. I also cannot classify Sachin as completely unfit for t20, although I do feel he has to prove himself , which he can as he has the basic attacking ability as a batter. But in other respects of "image-branding" excercise, he is very much part of the whole theme. I am surprised that a groin injury can keep out a player for so long...and if you include the fact he had absolutely no presence in the 3 test series, having scored his last run in Australia during his magnificent performances in the CB finals. He is also wise and probably wary of failure in this format and may not want to rush to play as there is nothing in it for his cricket/persona image. On another note, I too know plenty of folks who are centrally involved with Mumbai cricket and Sachin is not all that goody or pure when it comes to promoting his own cheerleaders in the team/rroting for their selections, dropping others and in general playing politics. I know many cricketers from the U-22 stage who specifically quit Mumabi cricket as the big man had no time for their performances and instead was promoting his own blue eyed boys. The joke in Mumbai circles used to be that if you wanna come up in cricket, you better have a Dad who is literary/poetry famous, you better be Marathi enough, and learn to say "sachin this...sachin that" at every turn and opportunity whether or not it is relevant to the context. But Sachin being one of the truly all time greats of Indian cricket can get away with all this...kets not forget that this is perhaps the only huge mega star booed in his own backyard in Mumbai...those with eyes to see and ears to hear will know more than what merely appears on the surface and biscuit advts.

Atleast do some research before you make such ridiculous claims, sachin played first match of the three test series. Thats when he aggravated his injury.

I am surprised that a groin injury can keep out a player for so long

Are you challenging our team physio??? didnt knw you could monitor groin injuries better than some world class physio. Anyways there is another surprise in store for you, Chris Gayle has been ruled out of IPL due to groin injury. Lets see if you accuse him of having brand issues http://in.news.yahoo.com/indiaabroad/20080423/r_t_ians_sp_cricket/tsp-chris-gayle-out-of-ipl-first-edition-73593c2_1.html Rest of your argument is full on inconsistencies. Do you expect sachin to do the selector's job and raise slogans for all those disgruntled players. It seems to me your so called under-22 are trying harder to impress sachin, rather than the selectors. Tell them there are no shortcuts to success. Besides your story is hardly believable, as sachin barely participates in domestic cricket, let alone promote his favourites. If you really mean to accuse sachin of favouritism, why dont you name me a few undeserving marathi speaking fellows in our Indian squad, who only made it into the team due to sachin's generousity.

[graphic23]

Kulkarni was dropped for that one game to play Tendulkar, who is normally away on national duty when the Ranji season is on. This is my version of events in that game. I gathered my information from some of Mumbai's players, who do not wish to be named. You can choose to believe my version of events or you can choose to call it bullshit. I am ok with you choose to call it bullshit, because that is your opinion. I do not have a photograph or a video or an audio to back my claim. However, I know where I am coming from. Same with Cricinfo. There are things said off the record to journalists. It is for the journalist's information. He can't take on somone like Sachin without evidence. I am not a reporter. Why can't I make an allegation against Sachin in a private forum? Wrong. He made this team. He was responsible for the hirings. Can he now take the same players to reach the IPL knockouts and prove his critics wrong? There's a good reason why he doesn't have T20 experience. He may not be fit for the format. Besides, he was even dropped from the ODI squad. Why?

He made the team - Correct. He was responsible for the hirings - correct. For the Indian national squad - the selectors decide who to play. They are responsible for the players in the 30 member squad. They don't play. So when the team fails will you blame the selectors or the players for their own failure? The selector analysis is not completely analogous to Sachin because he could've played. But since he isn't, it is not his fault that the team is not doing well. Again, why are there critics in the first place for the performance player who is injured, and has not even played a single game?Plus, he isn't the one deciding the final combination of the players for each game. Some Lalchand is doing that. Ashwell Prince doesn't have T20 experience because he did not play many Twenty20s. Because of his good performance in the domestic SA matches, he was given a run in the WC2007. Unfortunately for him, he did not have such a great tournament. BUt that does not prove that he does not belong in a T20 team at all. He's pretty young. He can field well . I still don't see why it was a mistake on part of Sachin to select him?

[donkey]

I admit to being a nutcase *******. 100 per cent. :haha:

buddy eventhough you openly admitted of being a retard, which I also agree 100%. You still us an explanation for your initial post, particularly this part

Why? It came down to "he goes or I go" and the poor guy had to make way for Sachin. Bet you did not know this.

This is the third time I have requested you to present a credible evidence, I'm begining to fear you dont have any.

[tnameh]

BTW' date=' did Sachin, Ganguly and Dravid asked BCCI to give them icon status? If not, how can they be found guilty to it? This is your most lame statement that since such and such player is paid more he needs to perform better than others!![/quote'] I never said this. Who did? Dude, are you smoking pot? You're making things up in your mind. :hysterical:

[tnameh]

This is the third time I have requested you to present a credible evidence' date=' I'm begining to fear you dont have any.[/quote'] Sir, Kindly refer to my earlier post which tackled this bit. Frankly, I can turn around the argument and ask you to provide evidence that THIS DID NOT HAPPEN.

[Guest HariSampath]

and if you include the fact he had absolutely no presence in the 3 test series, having scored his last run in Australia during his magnificent performances in the CB finals

. hey donkey...see what I had written...when I saw absolutely no presence, I had meant that although he just played one test in Chennai, he got a duck...everyone knows Sachin played the first test... and...yes, I do believe he has his own favorites and does play politics, he is not exactly above human failings and petty things just because he is a superb batsman. take it or leave it.

[donkey]

Sir, Kindly refer to my earlier post which tackled this bit. Frankly, I can turn around the argument and ask you to provide evidence that THIS DID NOT HAPPEN.

that is one moronic response, no you cant turn the table around since burden of proof lies with the one who makes the allegations, basic rules of a debate. And kindly refer me to your posts that tackled this bit

[donkey]

. hey donkey...see what I had written...when I saw absolutely no presence, I had meant that although he just played one test in Chennai, he got a duck...everyone knows Sachin played the first test... and...yes, I do believe he has his own favorites and does play politics, he is not exactly above human failings and petty things just because he is a superb batsman. take it or leave it.

post names of a few marathi speakering players and we will take it from there....and I noticed you dropped your the injury faking accusation alltogether

[tnameh]

I also cannot classify Sachin as completely unfit for t20' date=' although I do feel he has to prove himself , which he can as he has the basic attacking ability as a batter. But in other respects of "image-branding" excercise, he is very much part of the whole theme. I am surprised that a groin injury can keep out a player for so long[/quote'] Yes. Thank you, Hari. This is what I've been trying to say to these blind followers who think Sachin can do no wrong.

[tnameh]

that is one moronic response' date=' no you cant turn the table around since burden of proof lies with the one who makes the allegations, basic rules of a debate. And kindly refer me to your posts that tackled this bit[/quote'] It's even more moronic to assume that there exists empirical evidence that proves an allegation of this nature beyond doubt. I have already told you: you're free to accept my theory or reject it. And if you reject it, may peace be upon you. It still doesn't change what I know for a fact.

[tnameh]

And kindly refer me to your posts that tackled this bit

Get off your bum and find it yourself man. How lazy are you?

[zubinpepsi]

do u know that when u cant substantiate ur theory it becomes a bullshi.t doesnt matter whom u talk about...

[zubinpepsi]

seems like all the sachin (blind) haters having a field day... geez he scored a duck in the only test inings he played after CB series and hes out due to an injury.. the knives r out again.. mebe u shud also add tht he got scared of steyn .. n dint wanna loose his image .. as a part of the so called image-branding exercises, he opted out giving injury as a reason..and mebe he knows tht he ll play like shi.t in T20 and thtsy hes chickenin out T20 matches.. great theory...

[Chandan]

Which have been the biggest flops at the IPL so far? Here's my two cents. 1) Sachin Tendulkar — Raised everyone's expectations of him and now he's warming the bench. Not his fault, but still disappointing to not see him play.

Sachin being injured playing for India is his fault. Oh, not his fault, yet he is a complete flop?? Who is smoking pot here?

Sachin did flop. And his team has been a massive disappointment so far - especially to me since I've followed Mumbai cricket quite a bit. Read my lines above carefully. I'm not saying getting injured is his fault. But it's disappointing to see a player of his standard sit out of such a high profile tournament, especially when he could be out there competing with some of his old foes. Reactions please.

What a great analogy!! Since Sachin got injured while playing non stop since last one year for India, and his injury got eggravated while fielding in the test vs SA, it is disappointing to you that he is sidelined, Sachin is flop?? He is unable to participate in the matches to face Warne or McGrath, hence he is flop?? His team has not gelled well under Bhajji or Pollock, hence Sachin is a flop?? Guess who is smoking pot here!!

I never said this. Who did? Dude' date=' are you smoking pot? You're making things up in your mind. :hysterical:[/quote'] Really?

Good point. Tendulkar, Ganguly, Dravid — they were all priced at over a million dollars each. That's a total of 30,000,000 dollars for these icon players.

Errr... Who said this?? And please decide who is smoking pot here!!! Since you keep on smoking it, doesn't mean everyone in the world do so too. And you posts are nothings but garbage one eyed posts. Hence my last reply to your thread!!

[CSK Fan]

It's even more moronic to assume that there exists empirical evidence that proves an allegation of this nature beyond doubt. I have already told you: you're free to accept my theory or reject it. And if you reject it, may peace be upon you. It still doesn't change what I know for a fact.

In the same post, you say its an allegation, theory and then a fact! A theory should have some basis of course. And if its about a player respected by all you need to do better.