Will Root end up with a higher average than Kohli?

[Majestic]

34 minutes ago, Jay said:

Root has left him for dead for a while now. I will say this. Peak kohli may be slightly better than root. Root dint perform vs Aussies so that's the only factor going against him. 

Kohli at his pomp performed well vs Aussies. 

 

However, kohli has always struggled vs Cummins. Even in 2016 back in India he got owned by Cummins and o keefe. 

Cummins owned him again in 2018. 

 

Kohli smashed a weaker bowler in Johnson. He was average vs Cummins in australia. Kohli did do well vs rabada and steyn so that's why I put him above Root. 

 

 

Smith god

Smith peak

Smith SSj2 (we are seeing this one now)

Smith SSj1 

Kohli peak

Root canal

Then Kane overrated asshole. 

 

Pant can usurp all of them tbh. Sundar the clutch man but glass boy can get there too. Shades of early Smith in him. You don't just smack around prime Cummins and prime hazlewood especially in a crucial moment like he did and not be talented. I wish someone can just make him strong and less injury prone. 

2015 series had some of the flattest wickets ever put. Both Smith and Kohli got 4 hundreds each.

[Jay]

39 minutes ago, Majestic said:

2015 series had some of the flattest wickets ever put. Both Smith and Kohli got 4 hundreds each.

Are you saying root is better than kphli? Just want to know your reasoning. Thats true those were flat pitches. Ryan Harris averaged 32 or something in that series. Shami was 34. Those 2 were the best bowlers in that series. 

 

Root also played on flatties and got wrecked in 2013 I believe by Johnson. 

 

I will give the edge to kohli at his peak but yea both have their strengths. 

Kohli was a monster in 2016 vs england at home. 

[Lone Wolf]

39 minutes ago, Jay said:

Are you saying root is better than kphli? Just want to know your reasoning. Thats true those were flat pitches. Ryan Harris averaged 32 or something in that series. Shami was 34. Those 2 were the best bowlers in that series. 

 

Root also played on flatties and got wrecked in 2013 I believe by Johnson. 

 

I will give the edge to kohli at his peak but yea both have their strengths. 

Kohli was a monster in 2016 vs england at home. 

Lol 2013 except Adelaide & MCG was not flat.  Johnson was fizzing the ball all the way through.  It was rapid.  

The 2014 series was super flat.  Smith looked like he could bat for 5 days.  Kohli was also in god mode. 

[Lone Wolf]

Root is probably most gifted player since Tendu.  Has every shot in the book.   Knows how to lead a sh*** batting side in tough conditions of England & almost comes up as a opener.   How he absolutely smoked a great Indian attack in England & made the series competitive was just too good to watch.  People forget he is better ODI player than Smith as well.  Such a shame he was not given cricketer of the year award last year.   His struggles in Australia will always be a blemish but he still has a shot to redeem himself & leave captaincy come next Ashes. 

[Majestic]

1 hour ago, Jay said:

Are you saying root is better than kphli? Just want to know your reasoning. Thats true those were flat pitches. Ryan Harris averaged 32 or something in that series. Shami was 34. Those 2 were the best bowlers in that series. 

 

Root also played on flatties and got wrecked in 2013 I believe by Johnson. 

 

I will give the edge to kohli at his peak but yea both have their strengths. 

Kohli was a monster in 2016 vs england at home. 

No they were not same wickets. Kohli and Williamson both got super flat wickets in 2014-15 and 2015-16 in the Australian tour.

 

2013 Ashes was different. Johnson was ripping through the lineups, he was bowling in a GOD mode in that series( and Root was pretty young into his career at that time, heck he destroyed Cook, KP and that whole England lineup in that series alongwith Harris). He continued the same in the South African tour too in 2013-14. Those two tours were the peak version of Johnson. Post that, the super flat dead wickets in Australia just didn't helped him much and he retired a year later after the World Cup.

 

As for Root vs kohli, in Tests, Root is definitely better than Kohli. Didn't you only just a couple of days ago put Kohli even below Kane and at last?? Root is better simply because he has been more consistent and all round( plays spin better than Kohli).

Edited March 20, 2022 by Majestic

[Jay]

31 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

Lol 2013 except Adelaide & MCG was not flat.  Johnson was fizzing the ball all the way through.  It was rapid.  

The 2014 series was super flat.  Smith looked like he could bat for 5 days.  Kohli was also in god mode. 

True. So root> kohli? Kohli can't even beat root in his peak lol? Just want to hear your opinion. 

I guess I overrated kohli then. 

[Jay]

18 minutes ago, Majestic said:

No they were not same wickets. Kohli and Williamson both got super flat wickets in 2014-15 and 2015-16 in the Australian tour.

 

2013 Ashes was different. Johnson was ripping through the lineups, he was bowling in a GOD mode in that series( and Root was pretty young into his career at that time, heck he destroyed Cook, KP and that whole England lineup in that series alongwith Harris). He continued the same in the South African tour too in 2013-14. Those two tours were the peak version of Johnson. Post that, the super flat dead wickets in Australia just didn't helped him much and he retired a year later after the World Cup.

 

As for Root vs kohli, in Tests, Root is definitely better than Kohli. Didn't you only just a couple of days ago put Kohli even below Kane and at last?? Root is better simply because he has been more consistent and all round( plays spin better than Kohli).

Yes overall absolutely. You are correct. I did have kohli at 4. But my hate for him could have clouded my judgement. Just wanted to know what everybody else thinks of kohli. 

Peak vs peak? I would say kohli is better vs bounce and pace. Root better vs spin and swing. Would that be a fair assessment objectively? 

 

Overall in terms of feats and achievement for their respective teams, I honestly have to put kohli at 4. Sorry Indian fans. In his peak yes I would prefer to have a player who is good vs bouncer and pace vs someone who is good vs swing. Swing can be negated with training. Bounce is a lot harder to face. Spin can be hard on turners but not many teams put out turners. 

It's a tough one but root would go down as greater than kohli in the end. Root had a more compact game. What I am saying is the discrepancy between kohlis ability to play bounce and pace is not much superior to roots. Conversely root is quite a bit better vs spin and swing compared to kohli. 

 

Edited March 20, 2022 by Jay

[Dery]

Question now should not be whether root is better than Kohli but it should be when will Kohli be dropped from the team 

[Lone Wolf]

1 hour ago, Jay said:

True. So root> kohli? Kohli can't even beat root in his peak lol? Just want to hear your opinion. 

I guess I overrated kohli then. 

Kohli is overrated in Test cricket.  His peak was magnificent bit either of that he has never been the one you could say is leader of the batting line up.  Even likes of Pujara Rahane were supposedly better in 2013-15 period.  Rahane's inns in Durban 2013 vs a fiery Pace attack is one of the best I ever saw from him.  Even Graeme Smith applauded him later when he got out. 

 

Kohli's ridiculous run of form in ODIs was major factor in him being compared to Tendulkar Ponting.  He was on cloud 9.

Kane was even more overhyped than Kohli.  I will take Peak Rahane over Kane anyday. 

Root was always treated harshly as his team was in shambles & his struggles in Ashes.  I remember our star sports experts calling him weakest of Fab 4 completely ignoring that he is better ODI batsman than Kane/Smith.  Now he has left everyone in the dust.  Smith has declined.  Kolli is finished. 

Root probably has a great chance to become 2nd best after Tendulkar & cement his legacy.  He is younger than all.  Let' see how long his purple patch lasts.  Big home summer coming up for him.

[Dery]

New Fab 4 should be Labu, Root, Smith & Babar with Rizwan as part of fab 5.

[Suhaan]

36 minutes ago, Dery said:

New Fab 4 should be Labu, Root, Smith & Babar with Rizwan as part of fab 5.

yes in madarsa world Rajjo is in janeman 5

[sage]

4 hours ago, Lone Wolf said:

Root is probably most gifted player since Tendu.  Has every shot in the book.   Knows how to lead a sh*** batting side in tough conditions of England & almost comes up as a opener.   How he absolutely smoked a great Indian attack in England & made the series competitive was just too good to watch.  People forget he is better ODI player than Smith as well.  Such a shame he was not given cricketer of the year award last year.   His struggles in Australia will always be a blemish but he still has a shot to redeem himself & leave captaincy come next Ashes. 

Yeah you can basically add +4/+5 to his average since he's essentially an England opener which is one of the hardest roles in cricket

Edited March 20, 2022 by sage

[Jay]

2 hours ago, Lone Wolf said:

Kohli is overrated in Test cricket.  His peak was magnificent bit either of that he has never been the one you could say is leader of the batting line up.  Even likes of Pujara Rahane were supposedly better in 2013-15 period.  Rahane's inns in Durban 2013 vs a fiery Pace attack is one of the best I ever saw from him.  Even Graeme Smith applauded him later when he got out. 

 

Kohli's ridiculous run of form in ODIs was major factor in him being compared to Tendulkar Ponting.  He was on cloud 9.

Kane was even more overhyped than Kohli.  I will take Peak Rahane over Kane anyday. 

Root was always treated harshly as his team was in shambles & his struggles in Ashes.  I remember our star sports experts calling him weakest of Fab 4 completely ignoring that he is better ODI batsman than Kane/Smith.  Now he has left everyone in the dust.  Smith has declined.  Kolli is finished. 

Root probably has a great chance to become 2nd best after Tendulkar & cement his legacy.  He is younger than all.  Let' see how long his purple patch lasts.  Big home summer coming up for him.

He will be piling for sure. Yea can't argue there. Kohli is indeed an overrated test player. Name me one overseas win we had due to him in a crucial test series? Only one vs Aussies when we drew in one of the 2014 games. He was excellent vs a fiery 2018 s.african attack in difficult conditions. But we still lost the series. He never had an impact single handedly. Pujara and bowlers helped us win in 2018. And Pant. 

In 2021 it was bowlers and our young guns plus pujara who helped us win again. Even in England we are leading 2 - 1 due to bowlers and perhaps rohit. Maybe Rahul to a lesser extent. 

[Jay]

2 hours ago, Dery said:

New Fab 4 should be Labu, Root, Smith & Babar with Rizwan as part of fab 5.

Labu would be 5. 

Rizwan would be 4

Pant 3

Root 2

Smith 1

 

Babar maybe 6th. No impact overseas. 

 

Pant will have e a huge series at home vs Aussies soon. Also he will smash toyers. I expect Pant to average 45 46 soon. 

Edited March 20, 2022 by Jay

[Dery]

Labu, Root & Smith are comfortably better than their competitors. Babar & Rizwan are top5 in odis & t20s at the moment & will prove their mettle in tests soon.

[Vijy]

2 hours ago, Dery said:

Labu, Root & Smith are comfortably better than their competitors. Babar & Rizwan are top5 in odis & t20s at the moment & will prove their mettle in tests soon.

Smith at the moment is not at his peak. And Labu is mostly unproven in SC. Root is the best batter in WC by miles. Even in spicy pitches of Oz, he didn't fail completely. And he scored big 100s on turning tracks in SC. And has big 100s in seaming conditions of Eng.

[Jay]

8 hours ago, Dery said:

Labu, Root & Smith are comfortably better than their competitors. Babar & Rizwan are top5 in odis & t20s at the moment & will prove their mettle in tests soon.

And then they wake up. They ain't proving **** in tests. Just not good enough mate. Get over it. Rizwan is in top 5. That's it. 

[Jay]

5 hours ago, Vijy said:

Smith at the moment is not at his peak. And Labu is mostly unproven in SC. Root is the best batter in WC by miles. Even in spicy pitches of Oz, he didn't fail completely. And he scored big 100s on turning tracks in SC. And has big 100s in seaming conditions of Eng.

Is babar or rizwan really better than pant? Babar is a chump overseas. Both are no where near prime kohli and I don't even rate kohli that high Lel. Kohli being the weakest of the big 4 or so they called themselves. 

Babar and rizwan maybe in top 10 Lel. That's about it. 

Pant, sundar, Gill, Shaw will all leave them for dead soon. Pant has left them behind already. Sundar has managed to outperform both in Australia too Lel. 

Gill and Shaw are actually their stated ages unlike rizwan who looks 30 plus and babar seems 30 himself. 

Bahut zyadha ho gaya. 

 

Firstly their best ever bowling lineup of 90s are no match for Indian pace attack of 2015-2021. They lost the one battle where they seemed to have an edge in the past lol. That must hurt so bad. Now they are clutching at straws. Phaast nahi toh kya. Hum ko bhesst bhaatszaman hai. Babar and rizwan inshah afridi Asia ka best hai.

[sage]

6 hours ago, Vijy said:

Smith at the moment is not at his peak. And Labu is mostly unproven in SC. Root is the best batter in WC by miles. Even in spicy pitches of Oz, he didn't fail completely. And he scored big 100s on turning tracks in SC. And has big 100s in seaming conditions of Eng.

Root is also the most aesthetic on the eye and good to watch bat

[Vijy]

3 hours ago, sage said:

Root is also the most aesthetic on the eye and good to watch bat

he is a complete batter. handles most elements well, and looks good doing it too