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Does winning ICC tournaments reflect how good a team is?

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Dravid won an icc tourney. Ct 2002.

 

smith saffers lost 2 series to aus at home, drew vs aus at home, drew vs eng at home, drew vs ind at home.

 

their away record is better than current India’s (who have a very good away record too) but their home record is vastly inferior (ind under kohl’s have won every home series - forget losses not even draws).

 

Right now you can place the two teams to be about even. Ind winning in SA later this year will take them up.

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1 minute ago, Jay said:

lol paine's aussies bowling attack plus goat smith labu and warner would destroy those teams.

I don't know how you just say these things - 

Atleast Take a look at that 70s aussies lineup 

They also had great players-

Greg Chappell was an ATG batsman 

Dennis Lillee was an ATG bowler

Doug Walters  was a borderline ATG batsman avgd 49

Rod Marsh was a great Keeper

Ian Chappell was a  world class batsman

Kim Hughes again a world class bat

Jeff Thomson the fastest bowler on the planet

 

 

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4 minutes ago, deathmonger said:

Dravid won an icc tourney. Ct 2002.

 

smith saffers lost 2 series to aus at home, drew vs aus at home, drew vs eng at home, drew vs ind at home.

 

their away record is better than current India’s (who have a very good away record too) but their home record is vastly inferior (ind under kohl’s have won every home series - forget losses not even draws).

 

Right now you can place the two teams to be about even. Ind winning in SA later this year will take them up.

correct analysis. virats india would beat them in india comfortably. it will be tough battle in s.africa. our bowling is relentless. any help with bounce will be trouble for them. remember sreesanth? now just think of bumrah shami umesh/siraj or ishant, ashwin together. add thakur for balance. 

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1 minute ago, Adamant said:

I don't know how you just say these things - 

Atleast Take a look at that 70s aussies lineup 

They also had great players-

Greg Chappell was an ATG batsman 

Dennis Lillee was an ATG bowler

Doug Walters  was a borderline ATG batsman avgd 49

Rod Marsh was a great Keeper

Ian Chappell was a  world class batsman

Kim Hughes again a world class bat

Jeff Thomson the fastest bowler on the planet

 

 

steven smith  averages 62. goat batsman of all time. equal to 2 or 3 players in top form

david warner averages 48. world class

labushagne averages 55 plus. world class

green - future superstar

puckwoski - another star in the making. averages 50 on those bouncy wickets.

 

now the bowling.

cummins - their best player. on par with mcgrath

starc - better than lee

hazelwood - as good as gilesspie

lyon - best spinner after warne for aussies. 

 

they would mutilate those teams. lets get real. 

 

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6 minutes ago, Adamant said:

I don't know how you just say these things - 

Atleast Take a look at that 70s aussies lineup 

They also had great players-

Greg Chappell was an ATG batsman 

Dennis Lillee was an ATG bowler

Doug Walters  was a borderline ATG batsman avgd 49

Rod Marsh was a great Keeper

Ian Chappell was a  world class batsman

Kim Hughes again a world class bat

Jeff Thomson the fastest bowler on the planet

 

 

rod marsh. lol paine averages 33. marsh 26. paine is also a good keeper. 

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India is a better Test side than it is in ODI & T20.  ODIs is our weakest format as we lag behind the modern way of playing.  Our bowlers can't defend bigger totals chasing is also an issue.  2011 WC side was probably the best we ever fielded till date.  I am amazed at their depth & ability & clutchness vs far superior teams than we see today. 

T20 side is improving rapidly though & we should win a WT20 if we have some luck on our side at least if the tournament is in Asia. 

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10 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

India is a better Test side than it is in ODI & T20.  ODIs is our weakest format as we lag behind the modern way of playing.  Our bowlers can't defend bigger totals chasing is also an issue.  2011 WC side was probably the best we ever fielded till date.  I am amazed at their depth & ability & clutchness vs far superior teams than we see today. 

T20 side is improving rapidly though & we should win a WT20 if we have some luck on our side at least if the tournament is in Asia. 

i would say dhoni's 2011 beats england of 2019 comfortably on pattas, turners and even on bouncy tracks. 

they would lose to current india in bouncy wickets and current aussies. 

 

on seaming pitches, i back dhoni's 2011 to beat all current teams too. 

 

they were only weak on bouncy wickets which suits current aussies and indians who are on par with each other. 

 

peak england of 2019-current would only dominate in flat wickets. they will get picked apart in asian turners, low bouncy wickets and seaming tracks too. 

 

mark my words. england will bomb out before semis. I dont see them doing well on bouncy wickets of australia either. sure they can win when australia doesnt play hazelwood and starc etc. but if aussies are at full strength they stand no chance in australia. neither would they beat virat's india on those tracks despite india not even fielding their best 11 thanks to brainless captain. 

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27 minutes ago, Jay said:

steven smith  averages 62. goat batsman of all time. equal to 2 or 3 players in top form

david warner averages 48. world class

labushagne averages 55 plus. world class

green - future superstar

puckwoski - another star in the making. averages 50 on those bouncy wickets.

 

now the bowling.

cummins - their best player. on par with mcgrath

starc - better than lee

hazelwood - as good as gilesspie

lyon - best spinner after warne for aussies. 

 

they would mutilate those teams. lets get real. 

 

So Smith is two three times of Greg Chappell who averages 54?

Kuch bhi

 

Aur ye kya bakwass hai future superstar, who are you to predict that Green will become as good a player for them as Doug Walters. 

Lol at 50 avg of Pucovski, he has played one match, lol and you are equating him to past legends and asking me to get real?

 

The current Aussie team is very strong and it has a great potential but their performances have been mediocre and as a result they can't be rated amongst the top teams. 

They lost two times against India in their home, lost against Sa first time in Sa since readmission and were clean swept in Srl. 

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41 minutes ago, Jay said:

i would say dhoni's 2011 beats england of 2019 comfortably on pattas, turners and even on bouncy tracks. 

they would lose to current india in bouncy wickets and current aussies. 

 

on seaming pitches, i back dhoni's 2011 to beat all current teams too. 

 

they were only weak on bouncy wickets which suits current aussies and indians who are on par with each other. 

 

peak england of 2019-current would only dominate in flat wickets. they will get picked apart in asian turners, low bouncy wickets and seaming tracks too. 

 

mark my words. england will bomb out before semis. I dont see them doing well on bouncy wickets of australia either. sure they can win when australia doesnt play hazelwood and starc etc. but if aussies are at full strength they stand no chance in australia. neither would they beat virat's india on those tracks despite india not even fielding their best 11 thanks to brainless captain. 

I will say 2011 India beats the daylights outta current Indian side in ODIs.  They are superior in talent ability & depth.  Raina +Yuvraj + Dhoni + Pathan is a gun finishing power in prime.  Top 3 is as destructive as ever.  With two new balls & no reverse swing & pattas all around the world..  They'd blast the sh** outta current side.   Current England side would be a close contest but I'd back 2011 India to beat 2019 England in a 5 match series in Current England patta conditions.

 

Edited by Lone Wolf
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9 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

I will say 2011 India beats the daylights outta current Indian side in ODIs.  They are superior in talent ability & depth.  Raina +Yuvraj + Dhoni + Pathan is a gun finishing power in prime.  Top 3 is as destructive as ever.  With two new balls & no reverse swing & pattas all around the world..  They'd blast the sh** outta current side.   Current England side would be a close contest but I'd back 2011 India to beat 2019 England in a 5 match series in Current England patta conditions.

 

Not only bouncy wickets bro. 

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23 minutes ago, Adamant said:

So Smith is two three times of Greg Chappell who averages 54?

Kuch bhi

 

Aur ye kya bakwass hai future superstar, who are you to predict that Green will become as good a player for them as Doug Walters. 

Lol at 50 avg of Pucovski, he has played one match, lol and you are equating him to past legends and asking me to get real?

 

The current Aussie team is very strong and it has a great potential but their performances have been mediocre and as a result they can't be rated amongst the top teams. 

They lost two times against India in their home, lost against Sa first time in Sa since readmission and were clean swept in Srl. 

Smith is their best ever player. Keeper is better than matsh. Also their bowling side the greatest since mcgrath and Warne. 

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5 minutes ago, Jay said:

Not only bouncy wickets bro. 

There is no bouncy wicket in ODIs these days..  Last time I saw real bounce in a ODI series was 2013 SA tour when Rohit Kohli Dhawan were taken apart by Steyn Morkel etc..  De kock just smacked us to all parts.  Watch the highlights of that series.  Embarrassing display by current superstars. 

2015 Tri series in Australia is also a series where we played on bouncy tracks.  To say Current India side would do better than 2011 on bouncy tracks is far fetched. 

 

 

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46 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

There is no bouncy wicket in ODIs these days..  Last time I saw real bounce in a ODI series was 2013 SA tour when Rohit Kohli Dhawan were taken apart by Steyn Morkel etc..  De kock just smacked us to all parts.  Watch the highlights of that series.  Embarrassing display by current superstars. 

2015 Tri series in Australia is also a series where we played on bouncy tracks.  To say Current India side would do better than 2011 on bouncy tracks is far fetched. 

 

 

Why wouldn't they? Bumrah shami siraj thakur etc all would excel on bouncy tracks. 

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1 hour ago, Lone Wolf said:

There is no bouncy wicket in ODIs these days..  Last time I saw real bounce in a ODI series was 2013 SA tour when Rohit Kohli Dhawan were taken apart by Steyn Morkel etc..  De kock just smacked us to all parts.  Watch the highlights of that series.  Embarrassing display by current superstars. 

2015 Tri series in Australia is also a series where we played on bouncy tracks.  To say Current India side would do better than 2011 on bouncy tracks is far fetched. 

 

 

Can’t compare. Team has become way better. That team was embarrassed by these same Indian batsmen in 2018

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5 minutes ago, deathmonger said:

Rohit and kohl’s only became their best versions in 2016. Were too young in 2013.

 

2018 saffers were torn apart 5-1. Dekock couldn’t do anything nor could ab.

Exactly. Prime bumrah and shami ran through them. 

 

Both still in prime. 

 

This current I side is a top side despite being its weakest format. Easily top 2. We just need to pick right players. 

 

Middle order of iyer Rahul Pant and pandya and then thakur is a solid MO. 

 

Top 3 will be replaced by Shaw and Gill. We are going to be beasts again. 

 

Just need to get rid of the poison that is kohli as captain. 

Edited by Jay
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10 minutes ago, deathmonger said:

Can’t compare. Team has become way better. That team was embarrassed by these same Indian batsmen in 2018

Again the pitches they have become much better.  Kuldeep & Chahal wouldn't do much on 2013 tracks those were hostile old school bouncy tracks. 

South Africa loses easily these days in ODIs both home & away.   They should bring back pacy n bouncy tracks which would suit their style of play.   

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12 minutes ago, deathmonger said:

Rohit and kohl’s only became their best versions in 2016. Were too young in 2013.

 

2018 saffers were torn apart 5-1. Dekock couldn’t do anything nor could ab.

Rohit was ODI cricketer for 5 years had a beast of a ODI run at home scored 209 vs Australia at home...  Dhawan in his prime CT success & bullied Australia at home.  Same goes for Kohli.  They were not some 19 year olds. 

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