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NZ I can understand, ECB? They are snakes.


sandeep

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37 minutes ago, sandeep said:

come on now - the war has been playing out for half a decade.  Where have you been?

 

ECB has already "won" round 1.  While BCCI was stuck in the supreme court 'lodha' mess, They used Shashank "Mir jaffer" Manohar to completely re-structure the ICC voting constitution and destroyed BCCI's domination of the ICC.  Earlier voting structure  meant BCCI, by pulling in SL, Zimbabwe, and Windies in its corner, with occasional support by toygers, could stop any and all ICC moves that were aimed at exploiting Indian market against BCCI wishes.  But the new voting structure has pushed that deadlock capacity to the history books.  There are what, 15 votes? with even the ICC "administration" getting one vote, additional votes for European cricket 'nations' like Scotland, Ireland, Netherlands - all of which are completely financially dependent on ECB and hence their vote is as good as ECB's.  

 

I fully expect BCCI to pull off an "Return of the King" in the ICC boardroom - but this is more than a few years away.  For now, ECB and its "admin" stooges hold sway at the ICC.

 

Always keen to learn about the politics of ICC and cricket in general . As you have mentioned my country what 

1) voting rights do Scotland have ?

2) In which way are Scotland financially dependant on ECB ?

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Yeah the reason ECB gave for cancelling the tour was pretty lame, I mean if they were worried about bubble fatigue, they could have easily sent in some second/third string players. It was just a matter of a couple of games played on back to back days, so they didn’t even have to stay in Pakistan for more than a week. Pak should feel hard done by this, this is worse than what NZ did since NZ had a legit reason

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24 minutes ago, Tattieboy said:

Always keen to learn about the politics of ICC and cricket in general . As you have mentioned my country what 

1) voting rights do Scotland have ?

 

 

Earlier ICC voting was for the 10 'test' members.  After ECB pulled off a "red wedding' in the ICC boardroom, that voting structure has been changed to 17 voting members.  

 

Vote #11 and #12 are the 'new' test members Afghanistan and Ireland.  One vote is for ICC "chariman".  Another is for an "independent" director representing women's cricket.  And 3 votes are for "Associate members".  Scotland is one of the few associate members with "ODI status" and would be represented by those 3 votes.  

 

Quote

2) In which way are Scotland financially dependant on ECB ?

 

How many 'international' games do Scotland host? How many of those have been against England?  How many Scotland cricketers are currently playing in the County and club circuit in England?  

 

Couple of years ago, India tried to schedule a short T20 series in Ireland along with their tour to England.  ECB saw that as a BCCI attempt to build influence on the Ireland board and essentially vetoed it.  I would not be surprised at all, if ECB exerts similar influence on the Scotland board, given that scotland's fledgling cricket infrastructure and fc circuit hugely depends on ECB goodwill and 'generosity'.  

 

I mean, this isn't rocket science.

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4 minutes ago, QuarantineTormentino said:

Yeah the reason ECB gave for cancelling the tour was pretty lame, I mean if they were worried about bubble fatigue, they could have easily sent in some second/third string players. It was just a matter of a couple of games played on back to back days, so they didn’t even have to stay in Pakistan for more than a week. Pak should feel hard done by this, this is worse than what NZ did since NZ had a legit reason

Exactly - that's what I wanted to point out.  Emotional greenbros got all worked up on Kiwi "betrayal", but aren't realizing that the ECB's knife in the back is far, far more egregious.  

 

Especially after how the PCB has been voting as ECB stooge in the ICC over the last few years.  

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33 minutes ago, deathmonger said:

but pakistan has delusions of parity with india and thus overspend on military and lose on everything else. their economy is less than maharashtra and tamil nadu's. at par with up's.

 

can you imagine canada taking on the usa or indonesia on china? greece on germany? that's the differential level but still they in their minds believe them to be our equals and thus make them even weaker.

 

Reality is that most Pakistanis don't.  But its the PakMil that's allowed to control the destiny of 200 million, in pursuit of its greedy and corrupt ends.  They know that they are not on "par" with India.  What they say publicly and what they know are 2 different things.

 

Because if there is peace or even "no hostility" between India and Pak, Pakistanis will start asking why are the jernails greedily swallowing billions and billions of dollars in every Pakistani budget.  And giving themselves free land and "defence housing societies", dominating upper management jobs in government and private sector, controlling almost everything in Pakistan and ensuring that top jernails are millionaires in dollars, while the country and its desperate citizens sink further and further in debt, illiteracy and ill-health. 

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17 minutes ago, sandeep said:

 

Earlier ICC voting was for the 10 'test' members.  After ECB pulled off a "red wedding' in the ICC boardroom, that voting structure has been changed to 17 voting members.  

 

Vote #11 and #12 are the 'new' test members Afghanistan and Ireland.  One vote is for ICC "chariman".  Another is for an "independent" director representing women's cricket.  And 3 votes are for "Associate members".  Scotland is one of the few associate members with "ODI status" and would be represented by those 3 votes.  

 

 

How many 'international' games do Scotland host? How many of those have been against England?  How many Scotland cricketers are currently playing in the County and club circuit in England?  

 

Couple of years ago, India tried to schedule a short T20 series in Ireland along with their tour to England.  ECB saw that as a BCCI attempt to build influence on the Ireland board and essentially vetoed it.  I would not be surprised at all, if ECB exerts similar influence on the Scotland board, given that scotland's fledgling cricket infrastructure and fc circuit hugely depends on ECB goodwill and 'generosity'.  

 

I mean, this isn't rocket science.

4 games in 13 years .

I  am sure you are aware fixtures for test nations and associate team are fixed now so the number of games that can be played is out of their control now . 

Not sure how a Scottish player signed by an  English county Is relevent unless you are saying the ECB is telling them they must sign Scottish players 

As for any Scottish players playing in English leagues they are playing as professionals paid for by the club's in which the money is generated by the social side of club cricket just like in Scottish cricket . 

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2 minutes ago, Tattieboy said:

Not sure how a Scottish player signed by an  English county Is relevent unless you are saying the ECB is telling them they must sign Scottish players 

As for any Scottish players playing in English leagues they are playing as professionals paid for by the club's in which the money is generated by the social side of club cricket just like in Scottish cricket . 

 

you can pretend not to understand how the fact that majority of scotland's cricketers depending on ECB controlled domestic cricket for their livelihood creates leverage and influence for ECB - thats your choice.  

 

If ECB says dance, Scotland cricket has to dance.  And dance with enthusiasm.  That's just the way the cookie crumbles.  Or should I say Haggis?

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5 minutes ago, Tattieboy said:

4 games in 13 years .

I  am sure you are aware fixtures for test nations and associate team are fixed now so the number of games that can be played is out of their control now .

 

The minimum is fixed. Boards are free to schedule other games bilaterally as they wish.  that's why the "ashes" are a 5 test series instead of the 'fixed' minimum for a WTC series of 2 test matches.  How many international games against 'test' members has Scotland hosted?  How many of those against England?

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38 minutes ago, sandeep said:

 

Earlier ICC voting was for the 10 'test' members.  After ECB pulled off a "red wedding' in the ICC boardroom, that voting structure has been changed to 17 voting members.  

 

Vote #11 and #12 are the 'new' test members Afghanistan and Ireland.  One vote is for ICC "chariman".  Another is for an "independent" director representing women's cricket.  And 3 votes are for "Associate members".  Scotland is one of the few associate members with "ODI status" and would be represented by those 3 votes.  

 

 

How many 'international' games do Scotland host? How many of those have been against England?  How many Scotland cricketers are currently playing in the County and club circuit in England?  

 

Couple of years ago, India tried to schedule a short T20 series in Ireland along with their tour to England.  ECB saw that as a BCCI attempt to build influence on the Ireland board and essentially vetoed it.  I would not be surprised at all, if ECB exerts similar influence on the Scotland board, given that scotland's fledgling cricket infrastructure and fc circuit hugely depends on ECB goodwill and 'generosity'.  

 

I mean, this isn't rocket science.

couldnt we just part ways with ICC? or ban english players from playing IPl. 

 

we dont even need to be part of an association like ICC. We have more than enough clout in this space. If india self bans itself, ecb might regret their decision. We can function on IPL alone. 

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10 minutes ago, Jay said:

couldnt we just part ways with ICC? or ban english players from playing IPl. 

 

we dont even need to be part of an association like ICC. We have more than enough clout in this space. If india self bans itself, ecb might regret their decision. We can function on IPL alone. 

No that's a rather naive and silly way of thinking.  Not too dissimilar to greenbro delusions of trying to do similar things.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, sandeep said:

No that's a rather naive and silly way of thinking.  Not too dissimilar to greenbro delusions of trying to do similar things.

 

 

not saying we should do that obviously. We are currently seeing international tournament calendar being restructured to accommodate IPL. That shows how much clout india have. 

Edited by Jay
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4 minutes ago, Jay said:

not saying we should do that obviously. We are currently seeing international tournament calendar being restructured to accommodate IPL. That shows how much clout india have. 

The great calendar war has been on going in Cricket for few years now. 

 

ICC has notched up a few minor wins in skirmishes at BCCI's expense.  But in the long run, the outcomes and trends are inevitable.

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13 minutes ago, sandeep said:

 

you can pretend not to understand how the fact that majority of scotland's cricketers depending on ECB controlled domestic cricket for their livelihood creates leverage and influence for ECB - thats your choice.  

 

If ECB says dance, Scotland cricket has to dance.  And dance with enthusiasm.  That's just the way the cookie crumbles.  Or should I say Haggis?

Majority ? Only two are now and those counties refused to release them for a series against a test nation last week because they didn't have to for an Associate Country . Some help from the ECB on that one !!

That is your opinion you have no proof they have to jump . 

A little footnote for you , I know for a fact Cricket Scotland were in discussions about games in India before Covid struck . The BCCI weren't doing that out of the goodness of their heart .

With regard to your other point I have said 4 and one of those was in a WC fixture . Scotland would gladly play the test nations and have tried and tried and tried but boards are frightened that what happened to England ODI side in 2018 happens to them best not play and risk embarrassment .If you are wondering India has played once  in 2007 and India A none 

 

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4 minutes ago, Tattieboy said:

Majority ? Only two are now

 

I'm not just talking about county.  Lot of Scot cricketers play in lower tiers as paid professionals don't they?

 

4 minutes ago, Tattieboy said:

and those counties refused to release them for a series against a test nation last week because they didn't have to for an Associate Country

 

That just proves my point about how Scotland Cricket is well and truly under ECB's thumb.   Thanks.

 

5 minutes ago, Tattieboy said:

but boards are frightened that what happened to England ODI side in 2018 happens to them best not play and risk embarrassment

 

Yeah, that sounds a lot like Lahori logic there.  Aint nobody afraid of a bunch of kilty boys with an inflated self-belief.   Sour grapes aren't a greenbro affliction solely I guess.

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OP I read your OP and a tear almost fell from my eye, I felt the strangest pity, my nostrils twitched in sympathy as my heart quivered. 

 

But then the schadenfraeude slipped seemingly straight up and I said HELL NO, BAYBEH. 

 

Then I danced taki taki, Shakti Kapoor style and soon after that Jimmy Jimmy Aaja, Mithun da style. 
 

Then in paroxysms of perfect pleasure, I celebratorily sipped straight scotch and meaningfully misquoted Genghis Khan:

 

“The greatest happiness is to watch Pa’stan scatter , to observe PCB’s wailing and howling, and to gather into your bosom their deep misery”

 

Other than that I agree wirh you completely. 

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In case of NZ, it was more of govt decision and less of NZC decision. Once govt provided their inputs, although players and NZC could have taken any decision, but it was always going to be one way.

 

In case of England it's ECB calling off a short tour without any proper reason. It has nothing to do with govt.

 

In case of BCCI also it's more to do with govt and political scenario, even BCCI didn't come up with such excuse to avoid Pakistan. Pretty sure if there is no issue from govt side and situation was even any close to normal, BCCI would have never dumped PCB like this.

 

All this after PCB favored ECB at ICC, toured England during peak covid.

 

Biggest hypocrites.

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1 minute ago, Trichromatic said:

In case of NZ, it was more of govt decision and less of NZC decision. Once govt provided their inputs, although players and NZC could have taken any decision, but it was always going to be one way.

 

In case of England it's ECB calling off a short tour without any proper reason. It has nothing to do with govt.

 

In case of BCCI also it's more to do with govt and political scenario, even BCCI didn't come up with such excuse to avoid Pakistan.

 

All this after PCB favored ECB at ICC, toured England during peak covid.

 

Biggest hypocrites.

 

 

Five Eyes is an intelligence alliance of the anglo saxon group - NZ, Aus, Canada, UK, US.

 

If NZ backed out based on genuine security advisory - UK was going to do the same. 

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