Pakistan won 19 out of 24 ODIs against India under captaincy of Imran Khan

[Jay]

3 hours ago, R!TTER said:

I've always rated Ganguly higher than Dravid & especially MS, with the resources he had he was IMO better than both & his legacy is like no other in Indian cricket 

Lol give ganguly bumrah shamj umesh siraj and see what he would do with such players. 

 

How I wished  to see this brilliant attack support the fab 4. We would have won everywhere and turned into an all conquering team like Aussies of 2000-2006. 

[vayuu1]

15 hours ago, Jay said:

Lol give ganguly bumrah shamj umesh siraj and see what he would do with such players. 

 

How I wished  to see this brilliant attack support the fab 4. We would have won everywhere and turned into an all conquering team like Aussies of 2000-2006. 

Imagine a team of

Rohit

Sehwag 

Dravid 

Tendulkar

Ganguly

Laxman 

Pant

Ashwin

Shami

Bumrah

Siraj/umesh

 

[Jay]

11 minutes ago, vayuu1 said:

Imagine a team of

Rohit

Sehwag 

Dravid 

Tendulkar

Ganguly

Laxman 

Pant

Ashwin

Shami

Bumrah

Siraj/umesh

 

No chance of even punters Aussies beating us. Tbh I don't even think they are all that great in Asia. 

 

Virats india would butcher them in India. 

 

It won't be easy for punters Aussies vs India in Australia given our bowling. Sure our batting is horrendous apart from 3 players but the team plays bounce and spin well. Just struggle vs swing. 

 

We can make it a close affair. 

 

However in India I don't see any version of punter's Aussies beating us. 

 

 

[BlueBlood]

I remember our Indian side back in the 90's our tail started from #5 itself.

 

I recall the team was something like this even in pace friendly pitches:

 

Mongia

Kumble

Joshi
Raju

Prasad

Srinath

 

None of these knew how to bat properly.

 

This meant that if the other team got out Sachin and two other batters like Ganguly/Sidhu and Dravid, we were already into Kumble/Joshi.

 

And with fixing allegations on Azhar and Jadeja. That meant if they really fixed matches regularly those days you were looking at India playing with only 3 pure batsmen in a given pressure match.

 

When Ganguly came he had luxury of Laxman, Dravid, Tendulkar, Sehwag, Yuvraj and inform Kumble and Harbhajan. Had you given Ganguly the team Azhar was running, it would have been impossible for anyone to win with 3 batsmen in the team and all others either fixing games or average bowlers.

 

Imran Khan's legacy will always be his ability to spot talent even when there was immense corruption in the domestic leagues in PCB and sticking to his guns in selection due to his charisma. Without him guys like Wasim Akram etc. would never have even played a single game.

Edited September 25, 2021 by BlueBlood

[poyzzplaidwell]

The key part here in "Won". Ex-Pak cricketers like Kaali Daal are Badtameez Raza still trying to brag about it shows how much jealousy and hatred they have.

India and Indians have moved on far ahead of them in every sphere of life, from economy to cricket to international diplomacy.

Ye kanjaar abhi bi 90s mein hi haii..

[mishra]

I know people have discussed umpires and bottle caps as even one of the two can wreck havoc on batsmen. Our bats were allways decent and never struggled as much against others other then Pakistan specially when it was their umpires ( sharjah was also theirs only).

 

I feel there is another angle as well. A lot of Pakistanis learned it from English by playing county seasons. Indtead of playing counties,  I am okie that our players ended up creating Kambli Manjrekar Tendulkar jadeja Ganguly instead

[Adamant]

His extremism aside, he was definitely a legendary cricketer. 

22.9 bowling avg with 38 batting avg is just insane. Home and away records are great as well. 

In 1982 test series he singlehandedly destroyed India in India. 

[Jay]

1 hour ago, Adamant said:

His extremism aside, he was definitely a legendary cricketer. 

22.9 bowling avg with 38 batting avg is just insane. Home and away records are great as well. 

In 1982 test series he singlehandedly destroyed India in India. 

Indeed. If his Pakistan side faced current india, India would butcher them at home easily. I am not even sure if imrans pak can beat India in their country.

 

Bumrah

Shami

Umesh 

Jadeja

Ashwin

In Asian conditions. Good luck. Good luck to punters Aussies too. 

[rtmohanlal]

This record has a lot to do  with  a few other factors  other than  the 'difference in team strength if any'.

1.  Major factor of ball tampering . Kaptaan saheb himself  led from the front in this regard.

2. A fair share of these matches under concern were  played in Sharjah where Pakistan in general seemed to perform better

3. Biased Pakistani umpires played  their roles.

 

The first factor itself made almost all the difference .Others were  negligible

[Jay]

1 hour ago, rtmohanlal said:

This record has a lot to do  with  a few other factors  other than  the 'difference in team strength if any'.

1.  Major factor of ball tampering . Kaptaan saheb himself  led from the front in this regard.

2. A fair share of these matches under concern were  played in Sharjah where Pakistan in general seemed to perform better

3. Biased Pakistani umpires played  their roles.

 

The first factor itself made almost all the difference .Others were  negligible

Tbf Pakistan kicked out butts in Australia as well back in the 90s. They struggled to beat us strangely in England of all places. 

 

So I do believe they were stronger but not 19-5 stronger. More like 16-9 ish. 

 

 

[asterix]

Not to forget the “Jazbaa & Junoon” and also the emotions of taking “revenge from India/Hindus” for all things happened to them post Independence.

 

They were more motivated to win than Indians. Beating India (by any means) was (is) the National passion. 
 

PS: regarding the BCCI getting wealthy & powerful, don’t forget Jagmohan Dalmiya’s immense contributions…

[Adamant]

Dalmiya should be mentioned alongside the Pataudis, Devs and Gavaskars of Indian cricket, he was that important. 

[putrevus]

14 hours ago, Adamant said:

His extremism aside, he was definitely a legendary cricketer. 

22.9 bowling avg with 38 batting avg is just insane. Home and away records are great as well. 

In 1982 test series he singlehandedly destroyed India in India. 

Imran was never as good as his stats suggest. He was a bowler who could bat a bit for majority of his career. His batting average gets lot of bump due to his stats against India.Those matches were played on flattest tracks.Was he a great bowler, I would say but I would rate both Botham and Kapil as far better batsmen than him.He never had great series in India as a bowler and never could well against India with neutral umpires. 1982 series was in Pakistan not in India. Without reverse swing he would have never become great bowler. Kapil, Botham or Hadlee never had reverse swing in their careers.Reverse swing was so alien in at that time , Vishy I remember reading somewhere was flabergasted when he was bowled by Imran in that series.

Edited September 27, 2021 by putrevus

[putrevus]

More than Imran's captaincy, it was Javed's last ball six which had long last lasting impact on India , Pakistan matches. It was after Wasim Akram's arrival Pakistan started  becoming better side than India. Even with Imran at his peak I don't think Pakistan was ever a better side than in India.

[mishra]

5 hours ago, asterix said:

 

They were more motivated to win than Indians. Beating India (by any means) was (is) the National passion. 

They were better side as long as (by any means) exist. Their record is not so Great against other team vis a vis India and even their tgey have Gatting Shakoor incident and self confessed bottlecaps

[Austin 3:!6]

Dear OP - So what should we do? Shall we sticky this thread and sing Dil Dil Pakistan? 

 

[Khota]

Generally a better team wins.  They were better and hence the lop sided record. 

[Bhulla]

India was no match for Pakistani team under Imran. 

[Mesky99]

Historically they have been a superior team than India in odis head to head wise, they had some terrific naturally talented cricketers who were fine tuned into world beaters, their batting during 80s and 90s was as good as India's if not even better at times, their pace bowlers were a couple of notches above ours thou binny, Madan lal, Chetan Sharma and Prabhakar possessed limited ability they did pretty well

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[sandeep]

1 hour ago, Mesky99 said:

were a couple of notches above ours

"ours".