rkt.india Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 5 hours ago, CSK Fan said: Bull ****, Ashwin instead of jadeja would have made things much easier Ashwin wouldn't have done any better than Jadeja. Ashwin is known to struggle on flat pitches. Link to comment
vvvslaxman Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 1 hour ago, rkt.india said: You can't go that way. Not all pacers will have same impact in every game but you pick an extra pacer to cover if anyone of them is off color. In these conditions, captain wants fast to bowl most overs. Oval pitch wasn't dry, probably the greenest pitch on the tour on day one. It got dry only once Sun came out on day 4 onwards and even then ball hardly turned, turn was there on from the foot marks. These were not suitable conditions for Ashwin. It was a flat pitch. He struggles in flat conditions. If it was suitable, Moeen Ali would have run through us. Moeen is certainly a better bowler in those conditions and knows how to use foot marks. Ashwin did well in WTC final because of moisture. Moisture helps spin. Oval became dry, not rank Turner. It was flat and Ashwin is known to struggle on flat pitches. What conditions? There was no condition. Bumrah literally bullied them with pacy yorker length deliveries. Both teams suck against all kind of bowling. At the oval they would have done just as bad against Ashwin. Link to comment
vvvslaxman Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 4 hours ago, MultiB48 said: Ashwin ain't our best bowler in these conditions ,even at his peak he couldn't win us anything in these conditions against players who are not used to facing quality spin.His fitness is also poor ,whenever he has to spin the ball he gets Injured,he is used to being an arm bowler and relying on helpful conditions.I am sure he would have got injured if they had played him, having said that he is a better bowler than jadeja but you can rely on jadeja to complete his overs and that was good enough on this tour. Also I had watched that county match ,he got those wickets when the match was dead ,the opposition team already had got 1st inning points and there was no time to get a result in the 2nd inning,they were just going through the motions. I don't think he ever achieved a peak in overseas until now. He had Smith all at sea in Australia in the tests he playe.d nevada 1 Link to comment
vvvslaxman Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 4 hours ago, Suhaan said: He's not our best bowler, especially overseas You need to understand who he was going to replace,yes Oval was one place where he was needed, He would have replaced a pacer,maybe Oval but beyond it is suicidal to go with two spinners and less pacers in England If test final is the criteria you shouldn't be questioning recent scoreline 2-1 That is not necessarily true anymore. Exhibit A Test championship final. We cannot dismiss bowlers based on how you could win with their absence. India won in Australia with no Kohli no Jadeja. Many teams have won tests with bad selection. Thankfully we ran into a very very poor England side who we should have beaten 4-0. nevada and Chakdephatte 2 Link to comment
Suhaan Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 35 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said: That is not necessarily true anymore. Exhibit A Test championship final. We cannot dismiss bowlers based on how you could win with their absence. India won in Australia with no Kohli no Jadeja. Many teams have won tests with bad selection. Thankfully we ran into a very very poor England side who we should have beaten 4-0. So Ashwin would have ran through England?just because he sat on bench automatically means he would have single-handedly won us 4-0 We won in Australia without Ashwin as well, he's replaceable overseas you guys need to understand,we have those bowlers to exploit the conditions better than him else he would have played anyway Offcourse at home is irreplaceable Link to comment
Suhaan Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 50 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said: I don't think he ever achieved a peak in overseas until now. He had Smith all at sea in Australia in the tests he playe.d Even Razzaq had Sachin's number Link to comment
vvvslaxman Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 1 hour ago, Suhaan said: So Ashwin would have ran through England?just because he sat on bench automatically means he would have single-handedly won us 4-0 We won in Australia without Ashwin as well, he's replaceable overseas you guys need to understand,we have those bowlers to exploit the conditions better than him else he would have played anyway Offcourse at home is irreplaceable Bumrah didn't exactly run through NZ 4 tests in a row. So should we sit Bumrah out against NZ next time? Chakdephatte 1 Link to comment
vvvslaxman Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 1 hour ago, MultiB48 said: Shardul too was getting root out ,point is Ashwin can bowl well but is not a legendary bowler in these conditions as he is in India and is not a sure pick but like all top Indian cricketers his fan following creates unnecessary pressure and controversy. Warne never had success in India except may be in odd innings. He was never made to sit. That too when he is in prime form. With highest wicket taker in ICC test championship and world no.2 ranked. Rohit sharma should not played any test in England based on his past record. We played him because of his current form nevada and Chakdephatte 2 Link to comment
ash Posted October 1, 2021 Share Posted October 1, 2021 8 hours ago, MultiB48 said: Shardul too was getting root out ,point is Ashwin can bowl well but is not a legendary bowler in these conditions as he is in India and is not a sure pick but like all top Indian cricketers his fan following creates unnecessary pressure and controversy. Form matters IMO. Ashwin can become a legendary bowler only if he is picked. Spinners peak at certain ages, and it is clear that Ashwin's peak is now. I don't understand why only for bowlers, people look into the previous tours, instead of current form. Kohli had a horrible first series in England. Did we drop him in the next England series based on that? Or did we see the current form? Link to comment
vvvslaxman Posted October 1, 2021 Share Posted October 1, 2021 1 hour ago, MultiB48 said: Warne was good in Asia ,Ashwin struggles outside Asia . Rohit was played as an opener not in the mo ,as we never have openers ,similarly if the pacers would have struggled then Ashwin too would have got his chance.Ashwin sort of got cought in no man's land ,when the team was struggling in the previous tours he couldn't turn things around and now when the team did well he wasn't required. India is in Asia. That is all the connection is Doesn't mean all Asian teams played watne the same way. He was in the side he was their best spinner. It doesn't matter Rohit played as an opener is an excuse. It is even harder for openers in England. He was in the side mainly due to his recent form. Basically to cover up the pathetic average of middle order in England Jaddu was chosen as a cover up. Ashwin was the victim for no fault of his. Root single-handedly was covering the entire England line up . Despite inform Rohit and Rahul, pant in the backend they needed Jadeja. No other logical reason. Chakdephatte 1 Link to comment
Suhaan Posted October 1, 2021 Share Posted October 1, 2021 (edited) 11 hours ago, vvvslaxman said: Bumrah didn't exactly run through NZ 4 tests in a row. So should we sit Bumrah out against NZ next time? Bumrah is our number one pacer/bowler We plan our attack around him Ashwin is replaceable in these conditions Coming back to Bumrah ,in India we have Umesh,Shami to exploit the conditions,so he is replaceable Same is for Ashwin his services are not needed everytime in SENA,is it so hard to understand? Edited October 1, 2021 by Suhaan Link to comment
Chakdephatte Posted October 1, 2021 Share Posted October 1, 2021 5 hours ago, Suhaan said: Bumrah is our number one pacer/bowler. We plan our attack around him. Ashwin is replaceable in these conditions. Coming back to Bumrah ,in India we have Umesh, Shami to exploit the conditions, so he is replaceable. Same is for Ashwin his services are not needed everytime in SENA, is it so hard to understand? Ashwin averages better than Bumrah in England(means nothing to be honest). His favourite among SENA contries is England. Plus he is mature enough to bowl everywhere irrespective of the conditions. I believe in having 5-6 horses for courses, 5-6 players need to play every match, and Ashwin should be one of them. Resting him for first two matches was fine, but it was a mistake not give him any match. 7 hours ago, MultiB48 said: We have played spinners for decades in these conditions,how many matches have they won us ? How many matches had Shami won in England before this series? A great player is a great player irrespective of his past performance. Not saying he should have played all matches but dropping him was an unnecessary move to look 'bold'. He could have replaced Jadeja and outperformed him. nevada and vvvslaxman 1 1 Link to comment
vvvslaxman Posted October 1, 2021 Share Posted October 1, 2021 7 hours ago, MultiB48 said: We have played spinners for decades in these conditions,how many matches have they won us ? Don't know why you are so obsessed with one player,you should be happy that India has enough depth that they could win without virat or Ashwin in aus and eng. You keep missing the point going back to the same old argument of justifying someone's absence just because you are winning. SUre you can win without Bumrah as well in India. Would you sit him down and replace him with another spinner? Link to comment
Vilander Posted October 1, 2021 Share Posted October 1, 2021 On 9/30/2021 at 9:14 AM, MultiB48 said: Also I had watched that county match ,he got those wickets when the match was dead ,the opposition team already had got 1st inning points and there was no time to get a result in the 2nd inning,they were just going through the motions Can you provide match context and wickets that Ashwin took pls. I thought he did well in County cricket and was kept out of the team for non cricketing reasons when most experts were wondering and expecting he will probably play each game barring the first one. nevada 1 Link to comment
Vilander Posted October 1, 2021 Share Posted October 1, 2021 On 9/30/2021 at 9:06 AM, Suhaan said: He's not our best bowler, especially overseas You need to understand who he was going to replace,yes Oval was one place where he was needed, He would have replaced a pacer,maybe Oval but beyond it is suicidal to go with two spinners and less pacers in England If test final is the criteria you shouldn't be questioning recent scoreline 2-1 Point being was Ashwin ommittance from playing 11 justified in every game, may be not even you seem to agree. But even that is beside the point in the thread even Ashwin seems to be denying that this ever happened, him revolting etc. I think its some politics going on, statements and truths are being stretched to support some powerful lobbies point of view to remove Kohli, its clear from lack of verifiable sources these reports are half truths at best or outright sensationalist tabloid items. Link to comment
vvvslaxman Posted October 1, 2021 Share Posted October 1, 2021 6 hours ago, Suhaan said: Bumrah is our number one pacer/bowler We plan our attack around him Ashwin is replaceable in these conditions Coming back to Bumrah ,in India we have Umesh,Shami to exploit the conditions,so he is replaceable Same is for Ashwin his services are not needed everytime in SENA,is it so hard to understand? As long as you adopt horses for the courses policy wouldn't you drop him against NZ in the future matches? Same way Kohli is not going to drop Bumrah in India if he is fit and available. Because he is our no.1 pace bowler. You don't include him in the "rotation policy". Infact Ashwin is not even rotation policy. He completely dumped him. nevada and Chakdephatte 2 Link to comment
vvvslaxman Posted October 1, 2021 Share Posted October 1, 2021 6 minutes ago, MultiB48 said: Why not ,he is not essential in india .the key is how the spinners bowl and the batsmen score. Kohli will never drop him. I won't advocate him either. Just like how batsmen gets to play in all conditions you should back your bowlers to do well in all conditions. Atleast in slightly favorable conditions. An utterly incompetent English batting unit (got bowled out for 85 vs Ireland remember) made this move like great move. We were exposed brutally against New zealand in New zealand. nevada 1 Link to comment
DeepSpace Posted October 1, 2021 Share Posted October 1, 2021 On 9/28/2021 at 7:27 AM, coffee_rules said: hate this Baki like infighting being reported by leaked "sources". Can't be trusted Nothing new. In the 80s Kapil and Sunny fought more openly all the time and regional politics was rampant. This is endemic in Indian sphere. Link to comment
Vilander Posted October 1, 2021 Share Posted October 1, 2021 17 minutes ago, MultiB48 said: https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/county-championship-2021-1244186/surrey-vs-somerset-group-2-1244302/full-scorecard Somerset had a 189 run 1st inning lead going into the 4th and final day,they had nothing to play for.Ashwin had 1 for 99 in the 1st inning and then took 6 for 27 in the 2nd inning. That's a good return imo, he basically ran through the top and middle order and got them bundled out for 60 odd, spinner so will strike as the pitch ages in the game. Not sure what your point is, no team wants to be bowled out cheap, seems Ashwin forced them to. Chakdephatte 1 Link to comment
vvvslaxman Posted October 1, 2021 Share Posted October 1, 2021 4 minutes ago, MultiB48 said: If conditions are such that they pick 3 spinners and 6 batsmen and WK and go with only 1 pacer and decide to drop bumrah and instead go with umesh or shami or siraj ,then it isn't that big an issue but if they drop a spinner let's say axar or some other 3rd spinner and pick bumrah that wouldnt be right. We were exposed in 2014 and 18 as well ,why couldn't Ashwin bowl out a team that struggles against Ireland? pacers did their job that's why we won else would have struggled again . Moment you bring back 2014/2018 you should bring back performance of batsmen too from that point. Rohit/Kohli(2014) and others. Do you guarantee these guys will ever do well there? Shami was averaging 47 until this tour started. Worse than Ashwin. Link to comment
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