PAK vs INDIA opening Match T20 WC 2021- what went wrong

[zen]

The big issue is psychological where the selectors and TM believe that Rohit & Kohli (including them having a high opinion of themselves) cannot be dropped. All work arounds are done with their positions firmly in place. 

 

Yes, captain and vc would start off but should they be that in T20s. Kishan, Pant, SKY, etc. have been moved around to accommodate these two even in IPL. 

[Try_Ball]

3 minutes ago, Adi_91 said:

 

I am all for the captain to back a player (case in point: Pandya). But when the player is not delivering with either disciplines, then it is time to stop backing and try others.

 

But that said, I don't know if there is another player in domestic cricket who can bat and bowl an over or two at #6 (or even #4-8). This makes Pandya an invaluable player. But that cannot justify backing him blindly for this long.

 

I have never really understood why Bumrah didn't bowl the first over in the IPL as well and I am not understanding this logic in this game either. They had only 151 to defend, so there is no way they could have defended without early wickets.

 

Any player you back has to have a reason to back them . Pandya is being backed "blindly".   -  If an all rounder cannot bowl - He becomes one-dimensional - 50% worth is gone. Secondly,   as a pure batsman - Pandya is in a poor poor form - his IPL was also terrible.  What a player "Can" do and what he is "likely" to do makes the difference.   Abdul Samad/ Tewatia can hit 4-5  sixes in an over as well  - Are they likely to do that on an international stage as well at present - NO.  Pandya hasn't done well for a long time now .  His utility to the team is very low -  He is taking a precious spot away from a specialist batsman/ specialist bowler.  Hurting the team in more than one way.

 

Possible grooming for Pandya should have begun in 2017-2019 time -   The whole point of IPL is to unearth talent -  Why isn't the NCA focusing on this skillset and identifying this spot to be targeted ?  -  Possibly - Thakur/Abdul Samad/ Arshdeep Singh should have been groomed  -  We are short of medium pace bowling all rounders but focus on what you have for now. 

 

Bumrah is your premier strike bowler and he doesn't even bowl your first two overs.  This is purely a tactical mistake and Kohli just cannot think on his feet. 

[SRT100]

9 minutes ago, Try_Ball said:

 

 

 

Bumrah is your premier strike bowler and he doesn't even bowl your first two overs.  This is purely a tactical mistake and Kohli just cannot think on his feet. 

 

I never captained India, yet even I knew he should have bowled the first over.

 

It was imperative India got off to a positive start while defending 151.

[Try_Ball]

The Indian selection committee gets paid crores of rupees to decide India will play only with 5 bowlers , Really?   I would love this job - Where do  I apply ? 

Heck, pay me 10 % of that and I will tell you that u need to have a combination of atleast 6 or 7 bowlers in a T20 team or don't even bother showing up

[Try_Ball]

3 minutes ago, SRT100 said:

 

I never captained India, yet even I knew he should have bowled the first over.

 

It was imperative India got off to a positive start while defending 151.

Congrats - You're already a better captain than Kohli..

[RajBan]

1 hour ago, SRT100 said:

@express bowling we shared similar thoughts on this, we both felt Pakistan were a strong chance especially if India bat first with the wrong combination.

 

I think India will be knocked out in the group stage.

 

One game doesnt cost you a place, but I can see us choking against NZ.

 

Mind you we beat them 4-0 in NZ. With Jaddu being a thorn and Kl was a weapon. Not to mention our current XI is better on paper than the team that played NZ.

India losing against NZ means we are out of semis. That's need of the hour. We have postponed a test series win in England for IPL, should have postponed the WC post IPL as well. For players, BCCI and many fans only IPL matters however depthless it might be. It's evident from the body language of the playing 11 yesterday.

 

 

[AKane]

I completely agree that Bumrah should have opened the bowling. He is certainly better than a 120+ kmph Bhuvaneshwar.

 

However this is Pakistan and it is LOI

In 5 ODI matches vs Pak, Bumrah has 4 wkts for 48.75 each

In 3 T20I matches vs Pak, Bumrah has 2 wkts for 31 each

 

Compared to Cummins who has 13 wkts in 7 ODI vs Pak at 21 each and 7 wkts in 6 T20I at 20 each.

Compared to Steyn who has 28 wkts in 14 ODI vs Pak at 19 each and 12 wkts in 7 T20I at 12.75 each

 

Bumrah so far vs Pak has been ..... well you can see.

[jf1gp_1]

Nothing went wrong with team India, Pakistan played quality cricket best I have seen them play. They need to enjoy this win cause such perfect days are too few and far apart.

[AKane]

8 minutes ago, jf1gp_1 said:

Nothing went wrong with team India, Pakistan played quality cricket best I have seen them play. They need to enjoy this win cause such perfect days are too few and far apart.

I mean ok Pak played quality cricket.

 

But "nothing" went wrong with team India? If they can lose by 10 wkts with nothing going wrong - I hate to think what will happen if something does go wrong! Actually a 10 wkt defeat is the worst .... so something must have gone wrong.

[nitinbwj]

Open with Kishan- Rohit, Kohli at 3,then Rahul, Pant 

[jf1gp_1]

39 minutes ago, AKane said:

I mean ok Pak played quality cricket.

 

But "nothing" went wrong with team India? If they can lose by 10 wkts with nothing going wrong - I hate to think what will happen if something does go wrong! Actually a 10 wkt defeat is the worst .... so something must have gone wrong.

Obviously for games prospective a lot went wrong, I meant more from team/squad prospective.

[SRT100]

2 hours ago, RajBan said:

India losing against NZ means we are out of semis. That's need of the hour. We have postponed a test series win in England for IPL, should have postponed the WC post IPL as well. For players, BCCI and many fans only IPL matters however depthless it might be. It's evident from the body language of the playing 11 yesterday.

 

 

Agree.

 

Which is why you always pick  the best players that are the most desperate and hungry to play for and win for country ahead of anyone else.

 

Its one of the reasons India beat Australia in the Test series.

 

151 was defendable and at least India should have caused some panic during their run chase. Pakistan just cruised all the way to an easy win.

[Bigg Brother]

India really need to move on from Jaddu. We did for 2 yrs and we did just fine. The guy gives false sense of balance which in reality doesn't exist. Bats like tailender with selfish motive when required while bowls extremely mediocre innocuous darters when under pressure.. The guy has been playing since eternity in the wt20,cost us 2009 wt20. Will come good one one odd match and people will start chanting,"Sir,Sir"..He should stick to ODIs and Tests..

[Nikhil_cric]

Nothing really went wrong other than losing the toss . You could blame the squad selection to some extent but even that is understandable. Who would you select as a bowler for pace alone - Siraj? Perhaps. Maybe Chahal ahead of someone like Chahar especually after the 2and leg of IPL.

 

 

 

The reality is our bowling stocks are nothing to talk about. Pakistan have quite a few options and we saw what Rauf was capable of. 

 

So there was nothing wrong per se but we were outplayed by a team with more firepower in the bowling department and had the rib of green. 

[express bowling]

2 hours ago, Adi_91 said:

 

But that said, I don't know if there is another player in domestic cricket who can bat and bowl an over or two at #6 (or even #4-8). This makes Pandya an invaluable player. But that cannot justify backing him blindly for this long.

 

 

Venkatesh Iyer bats at the top ... was a big hit in this IPL, played strokes all around with massive 6s and looked super confident .... and bowls medium fast from a high release point. Has good yorkers and a thinking brain.

 

But was not picked even though it was known that Hardik won't bowl and is totally out of form with the bat.

 

This is what I meant by choosing big names with general international cricket experience ... while ignoring current ability and form.

 

 

2 hours ago, Adi_91 said:

 

I have never really understood why Bumrah didn't bowl the first over in the IPL as well and I am not understanding this logic in this game either. They had only 151 to defend, so there is no way they could have defended without early wickets.

 

 

Not giving Bumrah 2 overs upfront is a very very defensive decision.

 

Should always get this opportunity till the time we develop even better pacers.

[express bowling]

9 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

Nothing really went wrong other than losing the toss . You could blame the squad selection to some extent but even that is understandable. Who would you select as a bowler for pace alone - Siraj? Perhaps. Maybe Chahal ahead of someone like Chahar especually after the 2and leg of IPL.

 

 

 

The reality is our bowling stocks are nothing to talk about. Pakistan have quite a few options and we saw what Rauf was capable of. 

 

So there was nothing wrong per se but we were outplayed by a team with more firepower in the bowling department and had the rib of green. 

 

 

Our bowling stocks are better than you think.

 

And Pakistan's bowling looked special due to Shaheen Afridi, who is a very good bowler. As for the rest, they were really hungry for this win and bowled better than usual. 

 

Choosing players based on current form and ability, for the format, is the key. 

 

Shami has never been a dependable T20 bowler. And Bhuvi is woefully out of form and doesn't look fit. 

 

A bowling attack of Bumrah, Siraj, Thakur, Avesh, Varun C, Jaddu and one among Chahal or R.Chahar ... would been a bowling attack picked based on current form and ability for the T20 format.

[mishra]

People need to think, why did we bowled 5 bowlers in first 5 overs and then bowled bowler number 1 who was smacked for most runs in 6th over again. 
we had no plan B, sorry we had no plan at all.

[SK_IH]

1 minute ago, mishra said:

People need to think, why did we bowled 5 bowlers in first 5 overs and then bowled bowler number 1 who was smacked for most runs in 6th over again. 
we had no plan B, sorry we had no plan at all.

Fundamental difference between two teams was Pakistan came out with plans while bowling while India were rudderless both while batting & bowling.

India knew Pak will start with Imad, still kept sending right handers. While bowling, Loli's random bowling changes were for all to see.

[IndianRenegade]

We kept bowling at their legs forever, may be the plan was to bowl straight but the execution was really poor. They never seemed to correct it, baffling at the international level.

[RajBan]

1 hour ago, SRT100 said:

Agree.

 

Which is why you always pick  the best players that are the most desperate and hungry to play for and win for country ahead of anyone else.

 

Its one of the reasons India beat Australia in the Test series.

 

151 was defendable and at least India should have caused some panic during their run chase. Pakistan just cruised all the way to an easy win.

As you said the hunger was there with Pak players while for India players this was another match, for some likely it's a less important match than IPL.

 

Some journalist asked a question to Kohli that why Kishan did not play ahead of Rohit. Kohli rightly ridiculed him for trying to create controversy but the question does have merit even though the intent here by media was probably to troll. Rohit was never a great batsman in T20 internationals except for a short period years back. Kishan does exhibit the right traits to be successful in T20 and should play ahead of Rohit or Kohli. And I am glad Pandya has been proved to be useless when not bowling. There are many here and shameless/depthless ex cricketers in Twitter tried to project him the next Kapil, Imran, Hadlee, Botham. Infact Venkatesh Iyer right now is a much better prospect than him if we have to force fit  an all-rounder. Why go with a fake when there are better options?