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Would you take Rizwan or Pant?


Try_Ball

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2 hours ago, Try_Ball said:

Pant - bling slogging - Risk probability and severity are both quite high.  Pant most of the times fail when tying to release the pressure - Losing your wicket puts more pressure on a chasing side than a few dot balls . 

I'm not really backing Pant over MS in this, Pant is miles away from Dhoni right now but Dhoni's finishing prowess is vastly overrated. With peak Yuvraj & Raina he was winning lots of games with his chases & taking it deep approach, likewise with Kohli later on, but between the time 2011-13 when Yuvraj & Raina's form fell off a cliff & Kohli wasn't really an ODI beast (till 2013) you can easily see how his approaches backfired.

 

At least 50% of MS' succesful chases have a background story with often forgotten heroes like Yuvraj, Raina, Kohli heck SRT.

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Just now, R!TTER said:

I'm not really backing Pant over MS in this, Pant is miles away from Dhoni right now but Dhoni's finishing prowess is vastly overrated. With peak Yuvraj & Raina he was winning lots of games with his chases & taking it deep approach, likewise with Kohli later on, but between the time 2011-13 when Yuvraj & Raina's form fell off a cliff & Kohli wasn't really an ODI beast (till 2013) you can easily see how his approaches backfired.

 

At least 50% of MS' succesful chases have a background story with often forgotten heroes like Yuvraj, Raina, Kohli heck SRT.

 

Ofcourse , it's always a team game but MS regardless of IPL and T20 backed himself and he had a reason to.

Your strategy should be in sync with your skills 

MSD reviewed his abilities and took it deep or started to hit early based on what the situation was .   I often feel that when chasing in tough situation - respect the game and take it to the end - I don't mind that strategy tbh 

My issue here is only Pant -  he has no game plan and does not have a tactical brain - He doesnt rotate the strike,  does not believe in taking singles and doubles to put pressure back and taking it deep but blind slogging and exposing the tail and just walking off.  Even if you cannot hit big - scoring a run a ball during a chase and not losing your wicket can still give you a good chance 

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2 hours ago, Try_Ball said:

scoring a run a ball during a chase and not losing your wicket can still give you a good chance 

True but I have a slightly different take on that - it's because of tests! If you're good/great at tests you're T20 game will suffer - Kohli was the only exception in the past decade to this rule, with a fair sample size, but now even his numbers are dipping systemically across formats. Do you remember Buttler's returns in tests recently, or Bairstow? We really need more T20 specialists in this format now, test or ODI greats are not enough! Heck this is the reason why we won the inaugral WT20 - the mindset is vastly different to regular ODI or test players.

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10 minutes ago, Try_Ball said:

 

Ofcourse , it's always a team game but MS regardless of IPL and T20 backed himself and he had a reason to.

Your strategy should be in sync with your skills 

MSD reviewed his abilities and took it deep or started to hit early based on what the situation was .   I often feel that when chasing in tough situation - respect the game and take it to the end - I don't mind that strategy tbh 

My issue here is only Pant -  he has no game plan and does not have a tactical brain - He doesnt rotate the strike,  does not believe in taking singles and doubles to put pressure back and taking it deep but blind slogging and exposing the tail and just walking off.  Even if you cannot hit big - scoring a run a ball during a chase and not losing your wicket can still give you a good chance 

Don't think he was blindly slogging today.. Just trying to rebuild after losing the top 4. Yes it didn't come off but you can't blame him for brainless batting today. He resurrected the innings against Pakistan.. Unfair to keep asking him to do it match after match 

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Just now, R!TTER said:

True but I have a slightly different take on that - it's because of tests! If you're good/great at tests you're T20 game will suffer - Kohli was the only exception in the past decade to this rule, with a fair sample size, but now even his numbers are dipping systemically across formats. Do you remember Buttler's returns in tests recently, or Bairstow? We really need more T20 specialists in this format now, test or ODI greats are not enough! Heck this is the reason why we won the inaugral WT20 - the mindset is vastly different to regular ODI or test players.

Oh Yes , ofcourse , a Test player does not necessarily plays well in T20.  Very different skill sets. 

In T20s - you need players who can go 0-100 real quick ( I love Drake puns),   can handle the pressure better and have a plan and can adapt fast to the situation.

My issue in respect to this thread is purely on Pant - I do not see the value in him in T20-   Kishan is there and I rather even have a more thinking player like Rizwan who can rotate the strike and take the game deep than Pant tbh.  Pant has low utility to the team  - Rather have Shreyas Iyer/ SKY instead and have Kishan behind the stumps 

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2 minutes ago, dilliboy said:

Don't think he was blindly slogging today.. Just trying to rebuild after losing the top 4. Yes it didn't come off but you can't blame him for brainless batting today. He resurrected the innings against Pakistan.. Unfair to keep asking him to do it match after match 

He couldn't even maintain a SR of 100 - that's the least of what he has to do if the big hits aren't coming.

When you've played 18 odd balls in the middle -  ground shots for a boundary is expected at the minimum when trying to accelerate - He did attempt some stupid slogs which he inside edged a few times saving him as well.  Even his dismissal was one of the poorest shots you can see  - no foot work - that shot is something you'd play in a video game with blind pressing X  and hoping to connect 

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13 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Rizwan is a bloody good player but to chase down such totals u need someone mad like Pant.

Criticise Pant style all u want but when it comes off he wins u games 

 

It is a gift to be nerveless in such situations. Laxman had that. Nowadays Pant has it. I remember Warnie appreciating his audacity of hitting a ball for six against the turn after the previous ball viciously spun past him. Yes he would have looked silly. But he had that mindset to put that behind and execute the next shot without nerve.

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1 hour ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

It is a gift to be nerveless in such situations. Laxman had that. Nowadays Pant has it. I remember Warnie appreciating his audacity of hitting a ball for six against the turn after the previous ball viciously spun past him. Yes he would have looked silly. But he had that mindset to put that behind and execute the next shot without nerve.

++

 

Also, don't forget the psychological impact he has on opponents. Pretty sure Cummins would have had a rethink on his declaration decision if it was against India when he considers that Pant just needs one good session to get the team to the target. 

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Just now, Texan said:

++

 

Also, don't forget the psychological impact he has on opponents. Pretty sure Cummins would have had a rethink on his declaration decision if it was against India when he considers that Pant just needs one good session to get the team to the target. 

yes, just like sehwag battered eng and enabled us to chase nearly 390.

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On 3/25/2022 at 6:28 PM, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Rizwan is a bloody good player but to chase down such totals u need someone mad like Pant.

Criticise Pant style all u want but when it comes off he wins u games 

yeah Pant is as consistent as one can be with his style

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