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What value does India (therefore the subcontinent) offer?


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4 minutes ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

 

Economic upliftment is not just $$$.  It is women's empowerment, decreased child and infant mortality, increased life expectancy, increased access to education and talent-maximization, increased food production, increased food-buying power where you are not spending half-to-three-quarters of your income on food, and a permanent roof over the head for all people.  Improving metrics in these areas (especially less infant mortality, freedom from the farm and education) will automatically lead to people having fewer children and slowing population growth).  If all this means aping the West, so be it.  

 

It is easy to have the romantic notion "it's not all about money" when you are wallowing in money.  Which, by global standards, most ICFers are.

 

Buddy, that is understood. However, the notion that first there has to be "economic upliftment" to do anything meaningful including women empowerment or whatever is flawed. 

 

Today too, one could provide tons of people free basic education. Tons of food is doing down the drain because of inadequacy with storage. Crimes get committed by people who are economically empowered. The rich politicians are among the biggest corruption culprits for e.g..  Mortality can be improved through reducing pollution, which itself is created by taking forest away to build infrastructure to support an ever growing population. Millions of people move to cities from villages to only end up in slums. 

 

To say to a farmer that you are poor and that you can have a better life (play catch up) is similar to a developed country saying to an underdeveloped one that you need to catch up. A farmer can also be told that he is doing an important job. He can live in a village which can provide free education to his family and basic healthcare, where his wife could be trained as a nurse. Breathe clean air, drink clean water, and walk on clean streets. Because the village is relatively small, he does not even need more vehicles to transverse it. An improved but basic transportation service can suffice. There is no way to say that a person earning millions of dollars in a city, spending most of his life on the road and/or in hotels away from his family, working late hours is better off just because he has the latest TV, cellphone, and car (does everyone even need all of those) at his swanky home, which consumes more water and electricity than an average home. This person could be doing all this because he is trying to play catch up with the guy who owns a private jet and a yacht. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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54 minutes ago, bharathh said:

What value does the average American offer? They cause more pollution, consume the most resources and generate the most amt of waste in the world.

Carbon, yes. Particulate, no.

 

They consume the most energy per capita and preach t emerging economies that they must consume less.  So, the value they add .... is hypocrisy a value?

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3 hours ago, bharathh said:

What value does the average American offer? They cause more pollution, consume the most resources and generate the most amt of waste in the world.

They spend a lot on defence and sell arm and warfare to a lot of countries that spend more on defence rather than take care of their people, there by those. countries depend on IMF and World bank loans to keep their countries breathing. Meanwhile, USA calls themselves  World Police and beacons of democracy 

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If there one thing I agree with Zen Bhai's OP, it is that India's civilizational value is worth saving. Its a pure miracle that inspite of multiple invasions and genocides, this civilization is still existing. As the world gets smaller and more homogenized, our sanatan dharma and civilization can provide non-dual / non-partisan frameworks. As technology is taking over society, the role of inner well being will become more and more valuable. I would think the technology of Yoga, Gita, Ayurveda goes way beyond cartesian models of western outlook.

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1 hour ago, ravishingravi said:

If there one thing I agree with Zen Bhai's OP, it is that India's civilizational value is worth saving. Its a pure miracle that inspite of multiple invasions and genocides, this civilization is still existing. As the world gets smaller and more homogenized, our sanatan dharma and civilization can provide non-dual / non-partisan frameworks. As technology is taking over society, the role of inner well being will become more and more valuable. I would think the technology of Yoga, Gita, Ayurveda goes way beyond cartesian models of western outlook.

 

No we are getting somewhere! :dance: 

 

On such introspective topics, it can be difficult to get started on the right path as opinions shared are formed mainly by interacting with other like minded individuals. If you are in Pakistan for e.g. most are going to agree with Ghazwa-e-Hind, Islamic bomb, Pak's ability to change the world, and so on. From the inside, Pak looks different, a country that can change the world (because opinions are developed by interacting with like minded people). From the outside, it looks different (because it is evaluated on various dimensions). Similarly with India (including in formulating cricket concepts). These countries, like many others, want to be superpowers, but they are behind. Therefore, the blame lies outside its borders/control. For e.g. Pakistanis are likely to blame CIA, Mossad, RAW, and so on. For many Indians, it is economic development (and of course the invasions) - If India was as developed as say X, it would be ... 

 

When we create such perceptions, we end up playing catch up and maybe overlooking what we already have (our strengths) ... If woman empowerment is achieved only through economic development first, only developed countries (a small %) can hope for that. Many Middle Eastern countries are economically well off but fail on issues such as woman empowerment ... India needs to focus on what its core values are. It is the only place in the world where this magnificent culture can thrive and be preserved (no other place has any inclination to sustain it). India has the ability to be a great country for different reasons (not the western benchmarks, where it is likely to lag). 

 

For 70+ years, India is attempting to be "developed". In the process, it has managed is lose its culture relatively speaking, pollute its sacred rivers and other such majestic landforms, endanger its flora and fauna, and so on. 

 

Edited by zen
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India and Indians are different things. The latter are the people, whom are valuable and have a lot to offer. Indians are the relatively cheapest, and talented people of the world. Indians will be big exports to the world, both kinds to the top companies and cheap labour.

 

India on the other hand, is no value. Should we even be one country will be mainstream in next 5 years irrespective of any government. A lot of Indian knowledge, values, have been digested, and we are struggling to have our own identity. Without any uniqueness, their is nothing left.

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16 hours ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

Carbon, yes. Particulate, no.

 

They consume the most energy per capita and preach t emerging economies that they must consume less.  So, the value they add .... is hypocrisy a value?

Most of the floating islands of plastic in the sea are because of the US

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24430.jpeg

 

 

Rank Country/Region 2020 AVG 2019 AVG 2018 AVG Population
1 Bangladesh
Bangladesh
77.10 83.30 97.10 164,689,383
2 Pakistan
Pakistan
59.00 65.80 74.30 220,892,331
3 India
India
51.90 58.10 72.50 1,380,004,385
4 Mongolia
Mongolia
46.60 62.00 58.50 3,278,292
5 Afghanistan
Afghanistan
46.50 58.80 61.80 38,928,341

 

 

Subcon is like a garbage bin :((

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India needs a spiritual reawakening. Right now it is an inefficient, chaotic, undisciplined and corrupt mess. Other than cheap labour it has nothing to offer. 

 

The greatest fact is that we are not offering any destructive forces to the world. West promotes colonialism, liberalism and christianity. Middle east promotes terrorism. 

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West promotes Innovation as well. India lacks it thoroughly. We call it Jugaad. All our knowledge systems are exported, appropriated. We need to have a innovative thinking knowledge system instead of aping the west. Modern technology infused with eastern philosophy. 

Edited by coffee_rules
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‘Most extreme’ air pollution slashing life expectancy by up to a decade in India, damning new report finds

People in India are having their life expectancy cut by as much as nine years because of increasing air pollution, according to a new report by a US research group.

At least 480 million people in northern India – about 40 per cent of India’s population – suffer the “most extreme levels of air pollution in the world,” said the study, published by the Energy Policy Institute at the University of Chicago (EPIC) on Wednesday.

 

Northern India breathes “pollution levels that are 10 times worse than those found anywhere else in the world,” said the EPIC report.

 

Air pollution contributes to factors killing over a million people every year.

The national capital Delhi – which is a landlocked federal territory straddled between other northern states – was the world’s most polluted capital for the third straight year in 2020, according to IQAir, a Swiss group that measures air quality levels based on the concentration of lung-damaging airborne particles known as PM2.5.

 

One mounting source of worry has been the increase in the toxicity of Delhi’s air quality during the winter months. This is in part because fumes from the burning of crop residue in the neighbouring states of Punjab and Haryana blow over into the national capital, making it harder for people there to breathe in the winter.

 

PM2.5 levels are expected to get worse and cover other parts of India within years as well.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/climate-change/news/india-air-pollution-life-expectancy-b1912387.html

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