Away stats of Fab Four vs top nations - SENAI

[Adamant]

7 minutes ago, Majestic said:

He was player of series in 2015 home Ashes. Played some really clutch knocks in that series in tough conditions.

 

I am talking about overall record. 

He averages 40 in ashes. 

Yes he did well in that series but has flopped dramatically in all other. 

 

This is his best chance. 

[Nikola]

At start of fab four thing, root was considered to be best batsman in test cricket. He declined badly and people started to keep him outside fab four till his comeback this year. I think this is actually root vs kohli. Smith has always been in different league and kane is no way near root & kohli forget smith. I expect labuschagne to overtake kane pretty soon when he tours outside.

[Jay]

7 minutes ago, Adamant said:

Root won't be highly rated unless he dominates an Ashes. 

 

Ashes is the most important series for an Englishmen and he has been mediocre in that. 

 

No centuries in Australia for an English ATG? That's unheard of! 

Similarly even in home ashes series, he hasn't done well, record is very mediocre. 

Yes record vs Aussies is poor. Only 37 in Australia. 

 

However he did well vs India. 

[Jay]

20 minutes ago, Nikola said:

At start of fab four thing, root was considered to be best batsman in test cricket. He declined badly and people started to keep him outside fab four till his comeback this year. I think this is actually root vs kohli. Smith has always been in different league and kane is no way near root & kohli forget smith. I expect labuschagne to overtake kane pretty soon when he tours outside.

Yes. 

Do we have even one 50nplusbplayer from the new generation? Potential wise? Maybe Gill can hit 45 Max

 

Sundar 38-40 ish. 

 

Shaw similar to sundar

 

I think in the future imdia will have more match winning type players with lower average around 36-45 ish. No more soooperstar 50 plus culture that has ruined our brand tbh. 

 

[Majestic]

All said and done, Root will have to perform this Ashes and produce a big series to make his claim even more stronger.

 

The argument that Australian pitches are mostly flat and have true bounce need to be validated here by Root by producing a good series with about 450 runs to make a mark for himself. There are two pink ball tests so those can be lower totals thriller but he gotta make a bigger impact in away Ashes. If he does that, he surpasses Kohli comfortably in tests.

 

All three should go down as all time great but Williamson. He has been the biggest home track minnow basher of all-time. For start, he needs to perform vs Aussies at home. 

Edited December 11, 2021 by Majestic

[Adamant]

1 hour ago, Jay said:

Yes. 

Do we have even one 50nplusbplayer from the new generation? Potential wise? Maybe Gill can hit 45 Max

 

Sundar 38-40 ish. 

 

Shaw similar to sundar

 

I think in the future imdia will have more match winning type players with lower average around 36-45 ish. No more soooperstar 50 plus culture that has ruined our brand tbh. 

 

There's no youngster in India who can average 50 + in tests and odis, looks like the Gavaskar, Sachin, Kohli legacy won't continue. 

We desperately need an ATG caliber bastman. 

 

All we have are overrated IPL shooperstars and a few actually talented players like Pant, Gill, Sundar, Shaw and Yashasvi. 

 

 

[Jay]

1 hour ago, Adamant said:

There's no youngster in India who can average 50 + in tests and odis, looks like the Gavaskar, Sachin, Kohli legacy won't continue. 

We desperately need an ATG caliber bastman. 

 

All we have are overrated IPL shooperstars and a few actually talented players like Pant, Gill, Sundar, Shaw and Yashasvi. 

 

 

We dont want that legacy. Rather have 5 40nplus averaging match winning type players over one sooperstar fodder that fails in big games and stat pad to 50 plus. 

Edited December 11, 2021 by Jay

[raki05]

43 minutes ago, Adamant said:

There's no youngster in India who can average 50 + in tests and odis, looks like the Gavaskar, Sachin, Kohli legacy won't continue. 

We desperately need an ATG caliber bastman. 

 

All we have are overrated IPL shooperstars and a few actually talented players like Pant, Gill, Sundar, Shaw and Yashasvi. 

 

 

Don't mind x Kohli with Gavaskar, Sachin. If he will continue like this his avg fall below 50 very soon. He is not even in Dravid league in test cricket.

[Jay]

20 minutes ago, raki05 said:

Don't mind x Kohli with Gavaskar, Sachin. If he will continue like this his avg fall below 50 very soon. He is not even in Dravid league in test cricket.

Look man. I will admit kphli has done good things for india. He endorsed the fast bowling culture and instilled an aggressive mentality. He did his job but he is a poor captain overall as he lacks Interpersonal skills and due to his popularity (allegedly) there is no accountability for his failures. 

 

He was a great player for 3 years but he is clearly in decline now. He has never got selections right. All this lead to his downfall. 

 

I still hope he rebounds as a player but I just don't see the drive or motivation. 

[Adamant]

39 minutes ago, raki05 said:

Don't mind x Kohli with Gavaskar, Sachin. If he will continue like this his avg fall below 50 very soon. He is not even in Dravid league in test cricket.

If he continues like this and ends up with a below 50 average (at end of his career) no one will rate him amongst them. 

But that is conditional, you can't be sure how he performs in the coming years. 

[Adamant]

1 hour ago, Jay said:

We dont want that legacy. Rather have 5 40nplus averaging match winning type players over one sooperstar fodder that fails in big games and stat pad to 50 plus. 

You can't stat pad to 50+ in test cricket, every game is important here and it's not like any of these three bullied only minnows. 

Tell me any team who is remembered as ATg team who had 4 40+ averaging batsman and no one averaging close to 50 or 50+.

In tests you need someone of an ATG calibre, these are not lois. 

Edited December 11, 2021 by Adamant

[Jay]

42 minutes ago, Adamant said:

You can't stat pad to 50+ in test cricket, every game is important here and it's not like any of these three bullied only minnows. 

Tell me any team who is remembered as ATg team who had 4 40+ averaging batsman and no one averaging close to 50 or 50+.

In tests you need someone of an ATG calibre, these are not lois. 

What I am saying is hypothetically, I would rather have a bunch of sub 50 averaging batsmen over one sooperstar and some average players. 

 

Kiwis are a perfect example. Sure they have Kane who averages 50 but that's extremely stat padded with home Runs. 

Rest all average under 46. India are a better side but they are a clear top side themselves and probably Kiwis greatest side ever. 

[Adamant]

7 minutes ago, Jay said:

What I am saying is hypothetically, I would rather have a bunch of sub 50 averaging batsmen over one sooperstar and some average players. 

 

Kiwis are a perfect example. Sure they have Kane who averages 50 but that's extremely stat padded with home Runs. 

Rest all average under 46. India are a better side but they are a clear top side themselves and probably Kiwis greatest side ever. 

You called them phony number one yesterday. 

Also Kane averages 50 so not a fine example and also they aren't an ATG side. 

[Chakdephatte]

6 hours ago, Adamant said:

Root isn't gonna come anywhere close to Smith, he hasn't had the impact which Smith had.

 

Even in India this time he cashed in on the flat track and failed throughout the series. Smith scored runs on turners. 

You are assuming Smith will end his career with 60+ average, that will not be the case. Law of averages will catch up for Smith and his average may drop to 55-57. Root if he continues to bat this way before the final dip, can end with 52-54 average. Going by their current form, Root is very much approaching Smith. All four have 3-5 years left, so let's see.

 

6 hours ago, Adamant said:

Please look at the total number of serues the fab 4 have scored 500+ runs in. 

 

Root does not even come close to Kohli let alone Smith. 

I don't think so. Every player peaks at different ages. Kohli peaked from 27-30, Root started peaking now. Yes, if Root fails to sustain this peak, he will not be celebrated like Kohli.

 

Coming to big series, Root, at home, has two big series vs. India, one vs. South Africa, and one vs. Pakistan. He also scored close to 500 in India in 2016. Kohli also has just one 500+ series outside home, other big series came at home. As of now, Kohli is slightly ahead. If Root scores 500+ this ashes (not gonna happen), I will consider him better.

Edited December 11, 2021 by Chakdephatte

[SRT100]

7 hours ago, Lone Wolf said:

 

As of now  SRT Lara = Smith Root

 

 

 

No.

 

SRT and Lara faced some of the greatest bowlers of all time during their career.

 

Go through the two best bowlers of the opposition they faced. Its daylight inbetween them and todays bowlers.

 

WI was still a formidable team in the 90s too.

[Jay]

1 hour ago, Adamant said:

You called them phony number one yesterday. 

Also Kane averages 50 so not a fine example and also they aren't an ATG side. 

They are. It's their greatest side though. Kiwis greatest side. 

 

Kane averaged 37 vs seia countries. 

[Jay]

18 minutes ago, SRT100 said:

 

No.

 

SRT and Lara faced some of the greatest bowlers of all time during their career.

 

Go through the two best bowlers of the opposition they faced. Its daylight inbetween them and todays bowlers.

 

WI was still a formidable team in the 90s too.

Disagree with that. Bowlers now are arguably better. 

[Jay]

Srt did handle absolute prime steyn very well although he was a tad lucky as there wasn't drs in that series back in 2011. For that reason alone I rate him as the best ever. 

 

Steyn is a better bowler than mcgrath. 

[Chakdephatte]

2 minutes ago, Jay said:

Srt did handle absolute prime steyn very well although he was a tad lucky as there wasn't drs in that series back in 2011. For that reason alone I rate him as the best ever. 

 

Steyn is a better bowler than mcgrath. 

So does that mean batsmen like Viv Richards, Gavaskar, Gary Sobers have no chance to be the greatest as they have never faced Steyn? Any batsman born after 2000 has no chance to better Sachin as they will never face peak steyn.

[Jay]

39 minutes ago, Chakdephatte said:

So does that mean batsmen like Viv Richards, Gavaskar, Gary Sobers have no chance to be the greatest as they have never faced Steyn? Any batsman born after 2000 has no chance to better Sachin as they will never face peak steyn.

Can't compare across eras but sachhu was great across 2 different eras which needs to be respected. 

 

He did well vs mcgrath and then nearing his end, he had a great second peak vs steyn. 

 

Mcgrath and steyn are easily 2 of the best ever. 

 

Pre 90s should be rated differently. Era comparison is very hard. I should have specified. I meant post 90s. 

Infact every era has had some changes. Players who have excelled across a multitude of eras definitely have a case for goat status.