India missing the Jadeja link in this series

[R!TTER]

33 minutes ago, Chakdephatte said:

 

The only thing India is missing are two solid middle order batsmen. Nothing else, especially on this non spinning pitches.

And when the openers eventually fail - which they will, we'd have a misfiring opening slot as well as MO, now what happens when Shami/Ashwin retire? Ashwin isn't retiring anytime soon barring major injury, but Shami is looking flaky lately. Right now we have no one with Jadeja's fielding & tight bowling, you don't really expect Sundar to be the only frontline spinner do you

 

Basically the point is currently with our squad there's too much churn, we need to retire/expire some of the people not deserving another year of tests (like Pujara, Rahane, Saha, limp d*** Sharma) & test the youngsters who've shown promise early on! Not all of Vihari/Shaw/Thakur/Sundar/Gill/Iyer/KL/Pant will be test quality in the long run. That's just a pipe dream, let's see how many of them come out better two years from now!

Edited January 13, 2022 by R!TTER

[Chakdephatte]

15 minutes ago, R!TTER said:

And when the openers eventually fail - which they will, we'd have a misfiring opening slot as well as MO, now what happens when Shami/Ashwin retire? Ashwin isn't retiring anytime soon barring major injury, but Shami is looking flaky lately. Right now we have no one with Jadeja's fielding & tight bowling, you don't really expect Sundar to be the only frontline spinner do you

In South Africa, why not? Spinners are useless here. Jadeja is good in Australia. In England, it depends on whether more than pitches. Some day we may need two spinners, other day, not even one. Four pacers are sufficient, we succeeded with it in England. Jadeja played only because they thought he could bat.

 

So, yes, I think one spinner will be more than enough. It doesn't need to be Sundar though. Ashwin or Jadeja will still play some of the matches.

Edited January 13, 2022 by Chakdephatte

[R!TTER]

5 minutes ago, Chakdephatte said:

Jadeja played only because they througt he could bat.

He did bat well, he was the 5th(6th?) best bat. You're doing the same thing VVS did before, Sundar actually needs to play in Eng (or SA) before we can say he's better than Jadeja at 7 or 8 down the order!

Edited January 13, 2022 by R!TTER

[Chakdephatte]

3 minutes ago, R!TTER said:

Sundar actually needs to play in Eng before we can say he's better than Jadeja at 7 or 8 down the order!

I didn't say he is better than Jadeja. But what's wrong with trying him?

3 minutes ago, R!TTER said:

He did bat well, he was the 5th(6th?) best bat.

That's your opinion, I will rather say your bias. 

Edited January 13, 2022 by Chakdephatte

[R!TTER]

21 minutes ago, Chakdephatte said:

That's your opinion, I will rather say your bias. 

Sure but let's not pretend the "opinions" against Jadeja aren't biased - I gave you the numbers earlier in the thread, he's statistically India's 4th best batter in S.E.N.A. playing alongside a lower order with these stats!

Overall figures

Team	Players	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
South Africa	8	2019-2019	3	24	5	397	72	20.89	1023	38.80	0	2	4	54	6
Sri Lanka	6	2017-2017	3	19	6	205	67	15.76	438	46.80	0	1	5	25	2
England	15	2016-2021	8	60	12	617	66*	12.85	1596	38.65	0	3	12	67	9
Bangladesh	8	2017-2019	3	24	6	224	51	12.44	591	37.90	0	1	2	37	1
India	14	2018-2022	25	169	42	1460	86*	11.49	2756	52.97	0	5	40	172	20
Australia	6	2017-2017	4	29	6	240	61	10.43	547	43.87	0	1	8	27	8
New Zealand	12	2016-2021	6	44	11	331	47	10.03	884	37.44	0	0	12	35	8

 

Among the 5 fifties in there a couple are by Thakur & probably couple by Ashiwn/Jadeja combined. Our tail is categorically sh!t & Pants been a one series wonder in Oz so far!

 

Edited January 13, 2022 by R!TTER

[vvvslaxman]

1 hour ago, Majestic said:

I have learnt with time that unless people have performed over a course of 25-30 tests, there is no point in living with any hope. The ones with extreme level of  ability have faltered (KL for example).

 

After 25 tests Jaddu was averaging 26. Ashwin was averaging 36.   Infact Jaddu did not cross average of 30 until 35 tests. Ashwin was 41 after first 20 tests. Jaddu was like 24.  Ashwin was not a specialist batsman. Jadeja was. Let that sink in. It took eons to establish himself as a batsman. Kudos to him develop himself as a bowler. As a batsman he doesn't belong to another planet. He is no Shakib Al Hasan.

 

[Lord]

Jadeja is better in both areas in SENA

 

Meanwhile another poor display by bat by Ash

 

 

[Lord]

6 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

After 25 tests Jaddu was averaging 26. Ashwin was averaging 36.   Infact Jaddu did not cross average of 30 until 35 tests. Ashwin was 41 after first 20 tests. Jaddu was like 24.  Ashwin was not a specialist batsman. Jadeja was. Let that sink in. It took eons to establish himself as a batsman. Kudos to him develop himself as a bowler. As a batsman he doesn't belong to another planet. He is no Shakib Al Hasan.

 

 

lol stop misleading. Jaddu always batted at 7-8. Specialist bats dont do that. And was a good bowler from the start (Tests)

[Majestic]

7 hours ago, R!TTER said:

And when the openers eventually fail - which they will, we'd have a misfiring opening slot as well as MO, now what happens when Shami/Ashwin retire? Ashwin isn't retiring anytime soon barring major injury, but Shami is looking flaky lately. Right now we have no one with Jadeja's fielding & tight bowling, you don't really expect Sundar to be the only frontline spinner do you

 

Basically the point is currently with our squad there's too much churn, we need to retire/expire some of the people not deserving another year of tests (like Pujara, Rahane, Saha, limp d*** Sharma) & test the youngsters who've shown promise early on! Not all of Vihari/Shaw/Thakur/Sundar/Gill/Iyer/KL/Pant will be test quality in the long run. That's just a pipe dream, let's see how many of them come out better two years from now!

Simple Question.

 

Would you feel they have justified if they become a Rohit Sharma level test cricketer? Average of 80 at home and 30 away.

[Lord]

7 hours ago, Chakdephatte said:

I didn't say he is better than Jadeja. But what's wrong with trying him?

That's your opinion, I will rather say your bias. 

 

Sundar will be wasted at 7. Hes much better and should replace Rahane

[rkt.india]

8 hours ago, Chakdephatte said:

In South Africa, why not? Spinners are useless here. Jadeja is good in Australia. In England, it depends on whether more than pitches. Some day we may need two spinners, other day, not even one. Four pacers are sufficient, we succeeded with it in England. Jadeja played only because they thought he could bat.

 

So, yes, I think one spinner will be more than enough. It doesn't need to be Sundar though. Ashwin or Jadeja will still play some of the matches.

You do not need two spinners anywhere in SENA

[Chakdephatte]

1 hour ago, Lord said:

Jadeja is better in both areas in SENA

 

Meanwhile another poor display by bat by Ash

This thread is not about Jadeja vs. Ashwin.

 

On topic, 36 vs 38, not a lot of difference. Ashwin sucks in South Africa, but a much better bowler in both England and Australia. 

[Lord]

12 minutes ago, Chakdephatte said:

This thread is not about Jadeja vs. Ashwin.

 

On topic, 36 vs 38, not a lot of difference. Ashwin sucks in South Africa, but a much better bowler in both England and Australia. 

 

that's almost all the posts in this thread

 

Jadeja averages 21 in Aus with ball,Ashwin 42. Much better

 

 

[Chakdephatte]

1 minute ago, Lord said:

 

that's almost all the posts in this thread

 

Jadeja averages 21 in Aus with ball,Ashwin 42. Much better

 

Don't know the numbers. Ashwin bowled a lot better in last series. Averaged in 20s iirc.

[R!TTER]

17 minutes ago, Chakdephatte said:

This thread is not about Jadeja vs. Ashwin.

 

On topic, 36 vs 38, not a lot of difference. Ashwin sucks in South Africa, but a much better bowler in both England and Australia. 

You need to stop digging that manhole VVS opened 

[Lord]

2 minutes ago, Chakdephatte said:

 

Don't know the numbers. Ashwin bowled a lot better in last series. Averaged in 20s iirc.

Ashwin 28,Jaddu 15 in the series

[AuxiliA]

8 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

After 25 tests Jaddu was averaging 26. Ashwin was averaging 36.   Infact Jaddu did not cross average of 30 until 35 tests. Ashwin was 41 after first 20 tests. Jaddu was like 24.  Ashwin was not a specialist batsman. Jadeja was. Let that sink in. It took eons to establish himself as a batsman. Kudos to him develop himself as a bowler. As a batsman he doesn't belong to another planet. He is no Shakib Al Hasan.

 

 

Tbh for someone who is a big Ashwin fan and a good poster, I find your assessment of Jadeja highly hypocritical and contradictory.

 

Both have almost the same utility as a test allrounder. Ashwin is a better bowler and Jadeja a better batsman(& fielder). Their SENA records are almost identical (with Jadeja being slightly ahead).

 

Yet you go through great lengths and filters to put down Jadeja, at the same time turning a blind eye to Ashwin's shortcomings. 

[vvvslaxman]

16 minutes ago, AuxiliA said:

 

Tbh for someone who is a big Ashwin fan and a good poster, I find your assessment of Jadeja highly hypocritical and contradictory.

 

Both have almost the same utility as a test allrounder. Ashwin is a better bowler and Jadeja a better batsman(& fielder). Their SENA records are almost identical (with Jadeja being slightly ahead).

 

Yet you go through great lengths and filters to put down Jadeja, at the same time turning a blind eye to Ashwin's shortcomings. 

 

S is not the same as E or A or N.  Here you get prodigious bounce  movement. Neither of them are Jaddu's friends.  He has been exposed against short balls time and again even when he was batting well. In England may be, Australia certainly. But in SA it is a different ball game. I am not sure if he will ever get a chance. But i don't think he is good enough to handle the steep bounce from either Jansen or KG. 

[AuxiliA]

2 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

S is not the same as E or A or N.  Here you get prodigious bounce  movement. Neither of them are Jaddu's friends.  He has been exposed against short balls time and again even when he was batting well. In England may be, Australia certainly. But in SA it is a different ball game. I am not sure if he will ever get a chance. But i don't think he is good enough to handle the steep bounce from either Jansen or KG. 

 

And is Ashwin good enough? 

 

 

Of course Jadeja will struggle against steep bounce. Even pure batsmen do and he is just an AR. You set the bar so high for him lol. 

 

(As per stats posted above), Jadeja averages a good 6.5 runs more than Ashwin in SENA. Jadeja has 5 fifties, Ashwin has 2. He even averages a couple of points better than Ashwin with the ball in SENA!  Jadeja has 1 fifer, Ashwin has none. 

 

If you add his (miles) better fielding, running between the wkts and him being a lefty, Jadeja clearly has a better case for selection as the lone spinner in SENA. It's not a surprise the team choose to go with him in England. 

 

 

 

 

[vvvslaxman]

Just now, AuxiliA said:

 

And is Ashwin good enough? 

 

 

Of course Jadeja will struggle against steep bounce. Even pure batsmen do and he is just an AR. You set the bar so high for him lol. 

 

(As per stats posted above), Jadeja averages a good 6.5 runs more than Ashwin in SENA. Jadeja has 5 fifties, Ashwin has 2. He even averages a couple of points better than Ashwin with the ball in SENA!  Jadeja has 1 fifer, Ashwin has none. 

 

If you add his (miles) better fielding, running between the wkts and him being a lefty, Jadeja clearly has a better case for selection as the lone spinner in SENA. It's not a surprise the team choose to go with him in England. 

 

 

 

 

 

Ashwin is certainly not good enough either. Both are not going to be. India needed a 7+4 combo probably. But bowlers getting injured became a real concern.