The Indian Pace Bowling Pool need more Bounce Bowlers ... We suffered in South Africa because we could not use bounce as a weapon against ther top 6 batters

[express bowling]

The Indian Pace attack, in the 2017 to 2020 period, was far more bouncy than our current one on January 2022.  The bowlers are more or less the same but their bowling styles have changed.

 

Both Bumrah and Shami used to be quite bouncy ... but both are trying to mould themselves into medium-fast swing and seam bowlers nowadays, especially against top order batters. Their mental aggression and maybe even physical ability have reduced.

 

We see a lot of aggression and hostility against the tail ... but whenever they come up against top order batters, it is basically trying to use swing and seam. 

 

This approach may work in certain conditions like England. But does not work everywhere. 

 

All the South African pacers were slower than Bumrah but much more bouncy and aggressive. Yes, they are taller but Bumrah was bouncy with his medium height even a year back.

 

It is the extra bounce of the South African pacers which won them the series.

 

We need to introduce new bounce bowlers in our pace bowling pool ... like Prasidh, Tyagi and Avesh. 

 

We can't afford to be non-aggressive and low in terms of bounce, if we want to rule the world of test cricket.

 

P.S - As we play 60% of our cricket on slow tracks, we cannot afford to play bouncy medium pacers ... but need bounce bowlers who are quick in the air too.

Edited January 15, 2022 by express bowling

[Sandeep99]

Indian bowlers due to multiple factors this series -

 

No rest between innings and we folded in all 2nd innings quite meekly and quickly.

 

Fewer runs to play with - thanks to the great Indian middle order - bowlers were forced to go searching for wickets instead of bowling the right lengths and lines

 

South Africa had variety - South Africa showed why it's important to have variety - Marco is the find of the series for me along wth Keegan in batting

[vvvslaxman]

If we keep searching for bouncer bowlers, yorker bowlers, outswing bowlers we may have to field 6 bowlers.  YOu need to wobble the ball on a good length.. Pitch offers natural bounce there. We don't need more bounce than needed. India was under pressure to go for glory balls.

Edited January 14, 2022 by vvvslaxman

[mishra]

Whatever session I saw ou bowlers bowl, i think our bowlers were too good to get a edge. It happens some times when batsmen are unable to match bowler as there is allways gap between bat and ball but they (batsmen) will be able to defend ones on stumps.

 

But @express bowling bhai, you are expert. My assessment is based my bad days on field vs what I saw our bowlers do. I couldn't find flaws in our bowling

Edited January 14, 2022 by mishra

[vvvslaxman]

2 minutes ago, mishra said:

Whatever session I saw ou bowlers bowl, i think our bowlers were too good to get a edge. It happens some times when batsmen are unable to match bowler as there is allways gap between bat and ball but they (batsmen) will be able to defend ones on stumps.

 

But @express bowling bhai, you are expert. My assessment is based my bad days on field vs what I saw our bowlers do. I couldn't find flaws in our bowling

 

Yes. THey have performed all over the world. Problem is whenever they don't show up we just assume it is a bowling pitch where they failed. In NZ batting was easier than we made it look like. So bowlers got the critcisim. 

[express bowling]

3 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

If we keep searching for bouncer bowlers, yorker bowlers, outswing bowlers we may have to field 6 bowlers.  

 

 

The world of test cricket has been dominated by bounce bowlers and skiddy quick pacers.

 

All other pace bowling types are immaterial.

[vvvslaxman]

Just now, express bowling said:

 

 

The world of test cricket has been dominated by bounce bowlers and skiddy quick pacers.

 

All other pace bowling types are immaterial.

 

It comes down to how well the opposition bats against bouncers.  Current Indian batsmen are not the best indicators. When we bowled to Marcus Harris we gave him hell. He got hit on, got out pulling the ball etc. That strategy works against woeful batsmen.

[express bowling]

4 minutes ago, mishra said:

Whatever session I saw ou bowlers bowl, i think our bowlers were too good to get a edge. It happens some times when batsmen are unable to match bowler as there is allways gap between bat and ball but they will be able to defend ones on stumps.

 

But @express bowling bhai, you are expert. My assessment is based my bad days on field vs what I saw our bowlers do

 

 

Mishra Bhai .... if a ball is bouncing extra, it is easier to get the edge if the line is correct.

 

Because you can get either the outside edge or the splice of the bat to induce a catch ... as opposed to just the outside edge for low bounce balls.

 

Not talking about low and slow Asian tracks where our skiddy quick pacers are ideal for hitting the stumps.

 

 

[mishra]

2 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

Yes. THey have performed all over the world. Problem is whenever they don't show up we just assume it is a bowling pitch where they failed. In NZ batting was easier than we made it look like. So bowlers got the critcisim. 

On personalle experience there was one whole season which I think I was bowling at peak of my bowling. But that was the season I got very few wicket because batsmen imo, Batsmen were unable to even reach the edge of their bat.

 

South African against our bowlers were getting beaten time and again, but it ddid not convert into edge. This is the reason why you need extra runs as that provides the cushion and bowler doesnt have to start trying extra.

[AuxiliA]

Did you say bounce... Ghar mein ladka aur seher mein dhindhora. 

 

 

[express bowling]

2 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

It comes down to how well the opposition bats against bouncers.  Current Indian batsmen are not the best indicators. When we bowled to Marcus Harris we gave him hell. He got hit on, got out pulling the ball etc. That strategy works against woeful batsmen.

 

 

Not talking about bouncers.

 

But talking about the bowling style of hitting the deck hard for the length and back of a length balls ... to get extra bounce and seam movement. 

 

The other bowling style of kissing the surface is ideal for hitting the stumps on lower bounce tracks. The current Indian pace attack is using this style more often than not. 

 

 

[express bowling]

3 minutes ago, AuxiliA said:

Did you say bounce... Ghar mein ladka aur seher mein dhindhora. 

 

 

 

 

 

Ishant gets rather low bounce for his height.

 

He was never a true bounce bowler ... but in 2021 and 2022, he is very floaty. He does not hit the deck hard any more.

Edited January 14, 2022 by express bowling

[mishra]

2 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

Mishra Bhai .... if a ball is bouncing extra, it is easier to get the edge if the line is correct.

 

Because you can get either the outside edge or the splice of the bat to induce a catch ... as opposed to just the outside edge for low bounce balls.

 

Not talking about low and slow Asian tracks where our skiddy quick pacers are ideal for hitting the stumps.

 

 

Yes, I was basing my assessment based on English seam and swing conditions and end outcome in terms of wickets, so may be my experience is limited. But my point is still based on fact that sometime bowlers becomes too good to convert it into wickets

[express bowling]

Just now, mishra said:

Yes, I was basing my assessment based on English seam and swing conditions and end outcome in terms of wickets, so may be my experience is limited. But my point is still based on fact that sometime bowlers becomes too good to convert it into wickets

 

 

You are correct. Which is why the extra element of bounce can create more probability of getting a wicket for seam bowlers. ( as opposed to swing bowlers )

[neel roy]

Prasidh is the only one coming to my mind. Even in the odis in india he was getting bounce and though was getting mauled. He is a bit mentally fragile but needs to be supported. He can bowl tirelessly thats an advantage 

[Lone Wolf]

Time to unearth & groom a left armer as well.  I wish they pick Khaleel for next A series over Nagwaswalla.  He bowls around 140k at least.  Still premier young left armer in the country. 

[express bowling]

36 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

Yes. THey have performed all over the world. Problem is whenever they don't show up we just assume it is a bowling pitch where they failed. 

 

 

When they performed all over the world, they got more bounce.

 

This reduction of bounce is a very recent phenomenon for Shami and Bumrah. 

 

Even in the WTC Final 2021, Shami was getting a lot of bounce on a lesser bouncy track than SA.

 

Bumrah was very bouncy even in Australia 2020-21. And most series before that.

Edited January 14, 2022 by express bowling

[vvvslaxman]

7 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

Not talking about bouncers.

 

But talking about the bowling style of hitting the deck hard for the length and back of a length balls ... to get extra bounce and seam movement. 

 

The other bowling style of kissing the surface is ideal for hitting the stumps on lower bounce tracks. The current Indian pace attack is using this style more often than not. 

 

 

 

It would be a wasted ball on already bouncy wicket. Some of them would sail over keeper comfortably.  Jansen didn't even bend his back. He got natural bounce. But all angled. Could have been left alone comfortably. Even Bumrah hit their body, knuckles, arm in this match. But at the end of the day when you defend totals like 200 those are wasted deliveries.

[express bowling]

3 minutes ago, neel roy said:

Prasidh is the only one coming to my mind. Even in the odis in india he was getting bounce and though was getting mauled. He is a bit mentally fragile but needs to be supported. He can bowl tirelessly thats an advantage 

 

 

Prasidh is the obvious choice. Must be supported even if he has a few bad games in the initial part of his career.

 

Tyagi should be groomed too.

 

Avesh is the other option.

[express bowling]

4 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

It would be a wasted ball on already bouncy wicket. Some of them would sail over keeper comfortably.  Jansen didn't even bend his back. He got natural bounce. But all angled. Could have been left alone comfortably. Even Bumrah hit their body, knuckles, arm in this match. But at the end of the day when you defend totals like 200 those are wasted deliveries.

 

 

Almost all of South Africa's wickets were due to hitting the deck hard and getting extra bounce. 

 

Most of the great WI quicks as well as McGrath succeeded because of the steep bounce they got.

 

3 of the best fast bowling nations in history ... Australia, West Indies and South Africa ... have reached those lofty heights with multiple devastating and low average pace bowlers ... because they have tried to select hit the deck bounce bowlers mostly.

 

 

Edited January 14, 2022 by express bowling