The Indian Pace Bowling Pool need more Bounce Bowlers ... We suffered in South Africa because we could not use bounce as a weapon against ther top 6 batters

[express bowling]

10 minutes ago, Suhaan said:

Is it hard for Mhambray to imitate what worked well for us in tests especially

Its not rocket science that SA conditions are 65% Aus +35% England,to exploit the majority we should have gone with more hit the deck approach

One thing which i found interesting, Saini who is a skiddy bowler did quite well in A matches just before,yes pitches may have been different but at times in good rythm Saini is quite hostile ,i remember him famously bamboozling Warner in a tour match when Australia visited us in 2017,that was a red hot Saini there

 

 

You have raised a very good point about Saini.

 

He is essentially a skiddy pacer but because he is very quick when in rhythm, if he starts bowling in the 7 to 8 m range, he gets good bounce.

[express bowling]

6 minutes ago, AKane said:

 

 

Shami is  among the top 3 bowlers in the world.... Shami is the greatest thing since sliced bread.

 

In this series Shami has 14 wickets in 3 tests ..... Shardul has 13 wickets in 3 tests. (Shami bowls with new ball, Shardul does not)

 

Shami had 8 wickets in first test, Shardul had 8 in second. If you take that test away from each, Shami has 6 wickets in other 4 innings, Shardul has 5 wickets.

 

Shami is basically the rich man's or upper middle class man's Shardul bowing wise.

 

One difference is that ... batsmen play Shami and Bumrah with a lot of concentration and focus ( as they are strike bowlers, fast bowlers and big names )

 

Whereas batsmen seem to take it easy when Shardul, the apparent part timer and medium pacer, is bowling.

[AKane]

4 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

One difference is that ... batsmen play Shami and Bumrah with a lot of concentration and focus ( as they are strike bowlers, fast bowlers and big names )

 

Whereas batsmen seem to take it easy when Shardul, the apparent part timer and medium pacer, is bowling.

 

Another bigger difference is that Shami gets the new ball, Shardul gets a ball 20 overs old after he has been out fielding for an hour and a half.

 

We can go on... Shami bowls to new batters at beginning of inning or beginning of day, Shardul generally comes in when wickets are not falling and set batters are at crease.

Edited January 14, 2022 by AKane

[nitinbwj]

Bla bla bla... Bumrah choked. He wasn't intimidating at all. Shami as well. This was a thrashing. 

[AKane]

4 minutes ago, nitinbwj said:

Bla bla bla... Bumrah choked. He wasn't intimidating at all. Shami as well. This was a thrashing. 

 

Absolutely.... 

 

I have heard Bumrah won India Oval 2021 (when he took 4 wickets in match) and Lords (when he took 3 wickets in match).... because of his "impact" bowling. The other 16 and 17 wickets had no impact.

 

Now Bumrah takes 6 impact wickets in the match - but others take just 7 of the other needed 14 - and now we realize the impact of the other 14 wickets.

[Vijy]

Agree with OPs point. However, the biggest issue in the series was our batting, which showed up the holes in the bowling lineup

[vvvslaxman]

33 minutes ago, Vijy said:

Agree with OPs point. However, the biggest issue in the series was our batting, which showed up the holes in the bowling lineup

 

There are times we have to outbat opposition by digging in which will indirectly help our bowlers performing better. If we get bowled under 300/250 every innings bowlers hardly get a rest.

[rkt.india]

11 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

There are times we have to outbat opposition by digging in which will indirectly help our bowlers performing better. If we get bowled under 300/250 every innings bowlers hardly get a rest.

It wasn't a 198 all track in second innings. Capetown pitch historically doesn't have much pace and bounce and becomes slower as the game progresses. Same thing happened here. Their tall bowlers got much more natural bounce than our 5'8 bowlers. 

Edited January 15, 2022 by rkt.india

[Clarke]

38 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

It wasn't a 198 all track in second innings. Capetown pitch historically doesn't have much pace and bounce and becomes slower as the game progresses. Same thing happened here. Their tall bowlers got much more natural bounce than our 5'8 bowlers. 

 

We could also do with a defensive bowler like McGrath

[express bowling]

1 hour ago, rkt.india said:

It wasn't a 198 all track in second innings. Capetown pitch historically doesn't have much pace and bounce and becomes slower as the game progresses. Same thing happened here. Their tall bowlers got much more natural bounce than our 5'8 bowlers. 

 

 

I find it bizarre that our TM do not feel the need for any 6'2"+ pacer who can hit the deck hard and get bounce.  (   Ishant of 2021 and 2022 does not qualify as he has become very floaty )

 

Rough height of our pacers who actually played in this series 

 

Siraj  6'0"

Bumrah.  5'11"

Umesh. 5'11"

Shami.   5'9"

Shardul.  5'8"

 

3 medium height + 2 short height for pacers.

 

Prasidh, Tyagi and Avesh are all 6'2" or 6'3".  Even Saini is 6'1". But all out of favour.

 

Edited January 15, 2022 by express bowling

[Suhaan]

9 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

I find it bizarre that our TM do not feel the need for any 6'2"+ pacer who can hit the deck hard and get bounce.  (   Ishant of 2021 and 2022 does not qualify as he has become very floaty )

 

Rough height of our pacers who actually played in this series 

 

Siraj  6'0"

Bumrah.  5'11"

Umesh. 5'11"

Shami.   5'9"

Shardul.  5'8"

 

3 medium height + 2 short height for pacers.

 

Prasidh, Tyagi and Avesh are 6'2" or 6'3".  Even Saini is 6'1". But all out of favour.

 

Benchmark has been set somewhat high now for pace bowling in India,people now expect Indian pacers to roll over opponents

Maybe we should excercise little patience while operating with rookies like Avesh and Prasidh who may leak runs after a tight opening spell but making them feel they belong is important

They should be played against weaker sides at home/away and not to make very high expectations from them,fast bowlers take time to mature more so in Indian context

[rkt.india]

23 minutes ago, Clarke said:

 

We could also do with a defensive bowler like McGrath

Absolutely. 

[express bowling]

It must also be said that ... as we play about 60% of our cricket on low and slow tracks, promoting tall medium pacers won't help.

 

We need a couple of tall, hit the deck pacers who are quick in the air too.

[express bowling]

8 minutes ago, Suhaan said:

Benchmark has been set somewhat high now for pace bowling in India,people now expect Indian pacers to roll over opponents

Maybe we should excercise little patience while operating with rookies like Avesh and Prasidh who may leak runs after a tight opening spell but making them feel they belong is important

They should be played against weaker sides at home/away and not to make very high expectations from them,fast bowlers take time to mature more so in Indian context

 

Yes ... we should introduce the tall rookie quicks against weaker teams. We will automatically find out who among the lot is ready for the bigger league. 

 

Umesh has gone at 4 runs per over in both innings ... so leaking runs after first spell is already happening.

Edited January 15, 2022 by express bowling

[rollingstoned]

49 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

Yes ... we should introduce the tall rookie quicks against weaker teams. We will automatically find out who among the lot is ready for the bigger league. 

 

Umesh has gone at 4 runs per over in both innings ... so leaking runs after first spell is already happening.

Thakur could win us many matches because of how he bowls but that is also the problem of having a 4th seamer like him. When you are always looking for wickets you are obviously not going to get it all the time so will inevitably end up leaking runs. Having Umesh along with him is just too much for  low scoring game. We got away with it in England when Umesh and him both played coz we had a few more runs on the board. 

[Nikhil_cric]

Navdeep Saini is not a test class bowler. Just does not bowl accurately enough. On the Insia A tour to SA, Ishan Porel was the most economical bowler I think. Dude needs to be atleast tried out once before it's too late. 

 

[express bowling]

19 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

Navdeep Saini is not a test class bowler. Just does not bowl accurately enough. On the Insia A tour to SA, Ishan Porel was the most economical bowler I think. Dude needs to be atleast tried out once before it's too late. 

 

 

 

Saini was our best pacer, and probably the best pacer from either side on this tour.

 

Highest wicket taker at low enough ER.

Edited January 15, 2022 by express bowling

[Nikhil_cric]

2 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

 

Saini was our best pacer, and probably the best pacer from either side on this tour.

 

Highest wicket taker at low enough ER.

He is not test class. I saw him bowl in Australia and his lengths are rubbish. Not saying Porel is better but atleast he should be tried out. 

[Nikhil_cric]

This says it all really. Our bowlers are just too short. 

[express bowling]

18 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

He is not test class. I saw him bowl in Australia and his lengths are rubbish. Not saying Porel is better but atleast he should be tried out. 

 

Saini was not fit in Australia.

 

I hope people do not form a definitive opinion about him based on that tour.