Harshal Patel: how the hell does he manage to pick up wickets every time?

[express bowling]

2 hours ago, prudent_kreeda said:

 

 1. Firstly said young ..  so i am not talking about bhumra & co.

 2. Also mentioned 3 trundlers too too many .

3. Also i feel there is a place for a medium pacer with deception  & control  in indian T20 .  More so if he happens to be a lower order batter with some batting ability. Hence one of chahar/Harshal has a place 

My logic is  -who can avoid mauling - a younger 140+ bowler with  not much deception & control  or a medium pacer with better variations & control. 

I would not like to see a team of Sani, Avesh , Umran  right now as much as i hate a team of Boobi, Deepak  & Harshal. 

Let Avesh , Saini, Umran  prove against WI , ENG  in T20  before jumping the gun. 

 

 

 

Whenever quicker pacers are advocated for any format, it is a given that they must have requisite skills for the format also. 

 

So, let's not discuss pacers who lack those skills as of now.

 

Avesh and Siraj are in the squad and have T20 skills in 2022. 

 

From the chosen squad, IMO the first 3 pacers should be .... 

Siraj

Avesh

Harshal / Deepak.

 

Now, since all 3 among Jadeja, Axar and Washington are unfit, it maybe necessarily to play both Harshal and Deepak ... but the extra medium pacer is picked just for the batting and not for the bowling. And it should be a temporary measure till one among the spinner all-rounders are available.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 16, 2022 by express bowling

[express bowling]

1 hour ago, prudent_kreeda said:

 One should think why Bravo survived for so long in T20 even though he was a medium pacer. Was it not due to deception & control.?

Take best proven bowlers of T20 - most of them are great at deception , variation & control be it medium pacers or spinners compared to just plain phaast  less skillful pacers . 

 

Bravo has taken 78 wickets from 91 T20I matches. And has a ER of 8.1.  If we are happy with such mediocre bowlers then I have nothing more to say. 

[SRT100]

4 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

  If we are happy with such mediocre bowlers then I have nothing more to say. 

 

lol. You should stop posting, as India are.

 

I just cannot believe that Boobi was picked for this game, at a time when we need to trial out other bowlers too.

 

Boobi will be playing also plenty of T20 cricket in the IPL. He should have not played, let alone even in the squad.

[sage]

Reminder that I spotted Harshal when no one else did and was jeered for it. A star cricket acumen

 

 

 

 

[maniac]

1 minute ago, sage said:

Reminder that I spotted Harshal when no one else did and was jeered for it. A star cricket acumen

 

 

 

 

good call. I am beginning to beleive the conspiracy theories myself 

[vvvslaxman]

7 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

Bravo has taken 78 wickets from 91 T20I matches. And has a ER of 8.1.  If we are happy with such mediocre bowlers then I have nothing more to say. 

 

Harshal's ER so far is 8. On abrasive Indian surfaces his slower balls work. Imagine him bowling on surfaces with a bit of pace on it. His slow balls will just sit up. Even half connection will clear the boundary.  If someone gets hold of him like Jaddu did in the very first over of his imagine the situation of captain. He will be scared to give him another over. There was a period Unadkat was looking good with slower balls. So we brought him back. He actually looked okay in his final match the famous DK match. Bowled a crucial 19th over gave away 3 runs picked 2 wickets.  Didn't last. 

[rkt.india]

11 hours ago, maniac said:

Bravo was a well rounded bowler when he started. Could swing the ball , had an effective bouncer/ yorker.

 

Harshal apart from slower ball has no other visible skill. That’s the mystery.

To see swing and seam, you need to watch First class cricket.  When did you see Bravo swing and seam the ball in IPL? He averages 23 in domestic FC cricket which even likes of Bumrah didn't manage.

Edited February 17, 2022 by rkt.india

[rkt.india]

7 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

Bravo has taken 78 wickets from 91 T20I matches. And has a ER of 8.1.  If we are happy with such mediocre bowlers then I have nothing more to say. 

Er is fine for someone who bowls in death overs.

[prudent_kreeda]

10 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

Bravo has taken 78 wickets from 91 T20I matches. And has a ER of 8.1.  If we are happy with such mediocre bowlers then I have nothing more to say. 

If someone goes only by ER  and not the impact at critical stages of the match ..  we are not doing justice . We need to also judge at what stages he bowls and what did he do ?  

If we go by stats only ..  Who will say Malinga was a great in T20 ?  84 matches -107 wickets 7.5 ER . No big deal  but what impact he had in matches ?.

OR siraj - 4 matches - 4 wickets nearly 12 ER. Yet i would not say he is rubbish . I would look at his skill sets which is on the upswing . Avesh though has improved (only in last IPL)  but  also showed his vulnerability in a crunch situation in IPL. 

I would expect better judgement of skillsets and its execution in a T20 to be considered and given its due. 

While i respect your views , i do have a strong opinion that  a bowler be it medium pacer or spinner with max variations, skillful use of pace , bounce ,deviation & control is  a better option than a 140+ pacer with less skills . 

Hence one should not paint everyone who bowls medium as rubbish trundler for T20 . 

 

 

[Jay]

4 hours ago, rkt.india said:

To see swing and seam, you need to watch First class cricket.  When did you see Bravo swing and seam the ball in IPL? He averages 23 in domestic FC cricket which even likes of Bumrah didn't manage.

Bumrah averaged 24.89 in ranji. Not much difference. He played on brutal pitches that aren't conducive to pace bowling.

[Adamant]

Possesses a Working Brain. 

[express bowling]

On 2/17/2022 at 12:25 PM, prudent_kreeda said:

If someone goes only by ER  and not the impact at critical stages of the match ..  we are not doing justice . We need to also judge at what stages he bowls and what did he do ?  

If we go by stats only ..  Who will say Malinga was a great in T20 ?  84 matches -107 wickets 7.5 ER . No big deal  but what impact he had in matches ?.

OR siraj - 4 matches - 4 wickets nearly 12 ER. Yet i would not say he is rubbish . I would look at his skill sets which is on the upswing . Avesh though has improved (only in last IPL)  but  also showed his vulnerability in a crunch situation in IPL. 

I would expect better judgement of skillsets and its execution in a T20 to be considered and given its due. 

While i respect your views , i do have a strong opinion that  a bowler be it medium pacer or spinner with max variations, skillful use of pace , bounce ,deviation & control is  a better option than a 140+ pacer with less skills . 

Hence one should not paint everyone who bowls medium as rubbish trundler for T20 . 

 

 

Prudent bhai ... I am a big fan of most of your posts, but sorry, can't agree with most points in the above post.

 

1)  Even if we go by stats ...

... Malinga ... Wickets per match of 1.27 .. average of 20.8 .. ER of 7.4

... Bravo ... Wickets per match of 0.86 .. average of 26.1 .. ER of 8.1 

are vastly different.

 

Malinga's stats show wicket taking ability while Bravo's stats don't. 

 

2)  Siraj's T20I stats is not a good example as the sample size is very very low.

 

3)  If Bravo was in the middle of his career ... and his current form and ability were much better than his overall stats ... I would not have quoted his overall stats. Because he could be doing much better in the next few years. But he is a 38 year old.

 

4)  One good medium pacer with high T20 skills is ok. Having too many such pacers create sameness in the attack  (  I know you said that 3 medium pacers are too many ... but I think even 2 medium pacers are too many and can be lined up in big games )

 

5)   A proper pacer, when at  newbie stage, like Avesh and Siraj in T20Is, maybe slightly worse than an experienced medium pacer ... but this is where giving them experience matters. Low key bilaterals have to be used for player development. We have to show vision.

 

6)  I am not calling anyone a rubbish trundler.  My point is ... we should ALWAYS be on the lookout for highly skilful quick pacers (  try developing them when a finished product is not present ). A highly skilful medium pacer maybe ok but if we find a highly skilful quick bowler then our ceiling will be much higher.

 

Edited February 18, 2022 by express bowling

[vvvslaxman]

Today held his nerve against two of the monsters.

[maniac]

On 2/17/2022 at 3:05 AM, Adamant said:

Possesses a Working Brain. 

Touche

[Lord]

6 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

Today held his nerve against two of the monsters.

had too much to defend. Would've been diabolical if he couldnt defend 25. Conceded 16 which is not great.

[Vijy]

8 hours ago, Lord said:

had too much to defend. Would've been diabolical if he couldnt defend 25. Conceded 16 which is not great.

yes, if not for that boobi over, we could/would have lost.

[Adamant]

Nowadays in lois atleast you need to have pace. 

 

In tests there's no need of bowling 140+.

 

[Ankit_sharma03]

again performed specially when their was dew..........full marks

[maniac]

Respect

[Lord]

On 2/19/2022 at 3:33 PM, Adamant said:

Nowadays in lois atleast you need to have pace. 

 

In tests there's no need of bowling 140+.

 

reverse is true