Why do we need Kohli in T20s?

[Adamant]

22 hours ago, Jay said:

A UP board topper can still top the JEE too. He just has tried for it yet. Rote learning doesn't make one a genius. Anyway that's besides the point. I agree iyer is no where near as good as prime kohli in t20. Long way to go. 

Missed this gem. 

Jee Advance is rote learning  while board exams is the true parameter. Irony. 

 

Board toppers **** their pants in JEE and no they can't top it, there's a huge difference between the levels of these two exams. 

 

Similarly Shreyas Iyer might outscore Kohli vs Srilanka but when the team plays against proper teams in Australian conditions he won't come close to Kohli who is basically an Australian batsman born in India. 

 

[Jay]

20 minutes ago, Adamant said:

Missed this gem. 

Jee Advance is rote learning  while board exams is the true parameter. Irony. 

 

Board toppers **** their pants in JEE and no they can't top it, there's a huge difference between the levels of these two exams. 

 

Similarly Shreyas Iyer might outscore Kohli vs Srilanka but when the team plays against proper teams in Australian conditions he won't come close to Kohli who is basically an Australian batsman born in India. 

 

Again. Jee advanced may be a competitive paper. Doesn't make the person topping a genius. Plenty of people out there that solely devoted their entire life to pass that one piece of paper whilst sacrificing every other skill or attributes needed to be successful in the workforce. I have seen too many of these so called geniuses at work with little to no other knowledge apart from integration skills. Total lack of practical skills and worst in communication plus interpersonal skills etc. One dimensional is the correct term. Sure there are intelligent people out there who do well in that exam but many do the rote method way. As for board toppers we'll a good student can excel anywhere. 

 

I agree iyer is no prime kohli but kohli is worse than current iyer. So he can piss off. Iyer should be given a few more chances. 

[speedheat]

The difference in quality between Kohli and overrated jokers like Rahul was evident in the WC against Pakistan,without Kohli we would not have reached 100 in that game.

[Jay]

4 minutes ago, speedheat said:

The difference in quality between Kohli and overrated jokers like Rahul was evident in the WC against Pakistan,without Kohli we would not have reached 100 in that game.

Rahul should be in MO. 

[vvvslaxman]

 

 

1 hour ago, Adamant said:

Missed this gem. 

Jee Advance is rote learning  while board exams is the true parameter. Irony. 

 

Board toppers **** their pants in JEE and no they can't top it, there's a huge difference between the levels of these two exams. 

 

Similarly Shreyas Iyer might outscore Kohli vs Srilanka but when the team plays against proper teams in Australian conditions he won't come close to Kohli who is basically an Australian batsman born in India. 

 

 

Which batsmen don't score in Australia? Pant has his best numbers in Australia. Even Jdadu's best numbers came in Australia. Thakur, Sundar. Even Yasir Shah has a 100 in Australia . They all must be great players :) Dude don't go overboard with "Australian conditions".   INdia's biggest problem is moving balls. They play like clowns. That is why we were unable to chase even totals like 200 in the 4th innings in  South Africa and England but managed to chase 330 in Australia with a rookie team.

 

Edited March 1, 2022 by vvvslaxman

[Adamant]

25 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

 

 

Which batsmen don't score in Australia? Pant has his best numbers in Australia. Even Jdadu's best numbers came in Australia. Thakur, Sundar. Even Yasir Shah has a 100 in Australia . They all must be great players :) Dude don't go overboard with "Australian conditions".   INdia's biggest problem is moving balls. They play like clowns. That is why we were unable to chase even totals like 200 in the 4th innings in  South Africa and England but managed to chase 330 in Australia with a rookie team.

 

And who according to you are the top 3 current players in India against new ball in lois? 

Shreyas Iyer ? 

Remind me who was the only Indian batsman who had answers to Shaheens bowling in t20 world cup. 

Edited March 1, 2022 by Adamant

[vvvslaxman]

7 minutes ago, Adamant said:

And who according to you are the top 3 current players in India against new ball in lois? 

Shreyas Iyer ? 

Remind me who was the only Indian batsman who had answers to Shaheens bowling in t20 world cup. 

 

Well what is your excuse for Kohli's repeated failures against NZ? Should we go back to Ambati Rayudu?

[Jay]

34 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

 

 

Which batsmen don't score in Australia? Pant has his best numbers in Australia. Even Jdadu's best numbers came in Australia. Thakur, Sundar. Even Yasir Shah has a 100 in Australia . They all must be great players :) Dude don't go overboard with "Australian conditions".   INdia's biggest problem is moving balls. They play like clowns. That is why we were unable to chase even totals like 200 in the 4th innings in  South Africa and England but managed to chase 330 in Australia with a rookie team.

 

We do well vs bounce and flat pitches. Our batsmen I.e. the oldies group is useless vs spin, movement. 

[vvvslaxman]

30 minutes ago, Jay said:

We do well vs bounce and flat pitches. Our batsmen I.e. the oldies group is useless vs spin, movement. 

 

Movement has been our  achilles heel. Kohli averages 27 at a strike rate of 80 in world cup matches against SENA countries in 9 innings. He mostly bullied Pakistan, West Indies, Srilanka, BD.  In world T20 he averages 44 vs SENA at a strike rate of 125. He is a terrific bilateral player. In world cups he went AWOL against SENA sides mostly.  I have respect for him stepping against Pakistan every time except once. But we are talking about him as if he has done some impossible things in the world cup. Certainly not true. With more intensity than bilaterals world cup is a different cup of tea.

Edited March 1, 2022 by vvvslaxman

[Adamant]

43 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

Well what is your excuse for Kohli's repeated failures against NZ? Should we go back to Ambati Rayudu?

You are highlighting his lack of performance vs one particular team. 

 

Thats not logical, every other batsman has such performances against one or other team. 

 

As far as I remembered he won us a knockout match against SA in 2014 t20 WC, won us a virtual quarterfinal against Aus in 2016 t20 wc, and I don't think he has played against Eng in wt20. 

 

So his performance has been terrific. 

 

I don't know how you can even question his performance when he as won two man of the tournament awards and has performed in all the t20 WC knockout matches, yes, all of them. 

Edit - he played one match against eng in wt20 that too in 2014 and scored 40(32)

 

Also Pakistan has always been a better t20 team than Nz, Sa and even Aus except the last one year. 

Edited March 1, 2022 by Adamant

[rollingstoned]

7 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

Movement has been our  achilles heel. Kohli averages 27 at a strike rate of 80 in world cup matches against SENA countries in 9 innings. He mostly bullied Pakistan, West Indies, Srilanka, BD.  In world T20 he averages 44 vs SENA at a strike rate of 125. He is a terrific bilateral player. In world cups he went AWOL against SENA sides mostly.  I have respect for him stepping against Pakistan every time except once. But we are talking about him as if he has done some impossible things in the world cup. Certainly not true. With more intensity than bilaterals world cup is a different cup of tea.

australian grounds are big which will allow him to rotate strike well something he still excels at. He is a liability on grounds where you need a score of 200 ie most places in the subcontinent and England barring slow pitches like the Indian leg of the last ipl.

[vvvslaxman]

3 minutes ago, Adamant said:

You are highlighting his lack of performance vs one particular team. 

 

Thats not logical, every other batsman has such performances against one or other team. 

 

As far as I remembered he won us a knockout match against SA in 2014 t20 WC, won us a virtual quarterfinal against Aus in 2016 t20 wc, and I don't think he has played against Eng in wt20. 

 

So his performance has been terrific. 

 

I don't know how you can even question his performance when he as won two man of the tournament awards and has performed in all the t20 WC knockout matches, yes, all of them. 

Edit - he played one match against eng in wt20 that too in 2014 and scored 40(32)

 

Since you are projecting as if he is next to god against SENA countries i am merely pointing out that is not the case. He played well on utter flat tracks and made a couple of 50s. But when there wsa some assistance he failed. That is why his record against SENA in ODI world cup is poor. Even in World T20 he has played all his matches in Asian conditions.  Not outside Asia. This will be his first World T20 tournament outside Asia. Let us see whether he lives up to your claims.

[vvvslaxman]

5 minutes ago, rollingstoned said:

australian grounds are big which will allow him to rotate strike well something he still excels at. He is a liability on grounds where you need a score of 200 ie most places in the subcontinent and England barring slow pitches like the Indian leg of the last ipl.

 

I expect some flat tracks.  I have read somewhere average IPL score is 144. Average BBL score is 158. May be it is for a specific year.  Chris Lynn has hit 11 sixes in a single innings 3 times in BBL. and 7 sixes in 3 separate occasions.  Even we scored 200 last time when we went there.

[Ankit_sharma03]

6 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

That is third failure against new zealand in a knock out. If you combine Test championship performances,  T20 world cup matches, ODI world cup matches Kohli's performance against NZ 11 innings averaging 14.90.  Should we drop him in world cup matches against NZ as he doesn't seem to handle any of their bowlers Boult, Jameson, Southee, Sodhi. And there is always a random leggie from other country that can trouble him. 

 

KOhli is yet to play a single world T20 match outside Asia. This will be the first time. Let us see his  game against hard lengths, left armer swinging into him, leg spinner turning away, off spinner turning in.

ohh u doubt he cant play outside asia or hasnt scored runs in australia

Kohli is the best player of hard length in this team

 

this was the last time when he faced archer n wood at full pace had lengths

 

 

Past doesnt matter on a day in LOI, ability does . As far i remeber no one did well against NZ so lets drop the whole team , he did make a decent 40 nd test shudnt even matter (in bad form ppl cant buy a run)

As far as a leggie goes he can be protected by pant and he can easily rotate strike, also as if rohit, KL, iyer, samson doesnt struggle against leggies. Only SKY n pant can smash leggies 

[Ankit_sharma03]

6 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

That is third failure against new zealand in a knock out. If you combine Test championship performances,  T20 world cup matches, ODI world cup matches Kohli's performance against NZ 11 innings averaging 14.90.  Should we drop him in world cup matches against NZ as he doesn't seem to handle any of their bowlers Boult, Jameson, Southee, Sodhi. And there is always a random leggie from other country that can trouble him. 

 

KOhli is yet to play a single world T20 match outside Asia. This will be the first time. Let us see his  game against hard lengths, left armer swinging into him, leg spinner turning away, off spinner turning in.

ohh u doubt he cant play outside asia or hasnt scored runs in australia

Kohli is the best player of hard length in this team

 

this was the last time when he faced archer n wood at full pace had lengths

 

 

Past doesnt matter on a day in LOI, ability does . As far i remeber no one did well against NZ so lets drop the whole team , he did make a decent 40 nd test shudnt even matter (in bad form ppl cant buy a run)

As far as a leggie goes he can be protected by pant and he can easily rotate strike, also as if rohit, KL, iyer, samson doesnt struggle against leggies. Only SKY n pant can smash leggies 

[Ankit_sharma03]

2 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

Which batsmen don't score in Australia?

iyer 

 

2 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

INdia's biggest problem is moving balls

and which of these new guys plays moving ball well ??

Shaw or kishen 

Ur myth of iyer playing moving ball will be busted very soon 

SKY will also struggle 

 

[VT87]

2 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

Well what is your excuse for Kohli's repeated failures against NZ? Should we go back to Ambati Rayudu?

You are so critical about Kohli ,what about Rohit’s performance in any world event ,did he step up wc2015 ,CT 2017,wc2019 or T20. What was his performance against NZ ,does he deserve in the team let alone making him captain.How many tough SENA tours he has skipped apart from home bullying ,he skipped Nz tour ,SA tour , Day night match against Aus  .does he deserve to be called best batsman.

[vvvslaxman]

4 hours ago, VT87 said:

You are so critical about Kohli ,what about Rohit’s performance in any world event ,did he step up wc2015 ,CT 2017,wc2019 or T20. What was his performance against NZ ,does he deserve in the team let alone making him captain.How many tough SENA tours he has skipped apart from home bullying ,he skipped Nz tour ,SA tour , Day night match against Aus  .does he deserve to be called best batsman.

 

Rohit is there only because of his captaincy. This is not a  Kohli vs Rohit argument.  Don't want Dhawan either.

[vvvslaxman]

4 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

ohh u doubt he cant play outside asia or hasnt scored runs in australia

Kohli is the best player of hard length in this team

 

this was the last time when he faced archer n wood at full pace had lengths

 

 

Past doesnt matter on a day in LOI, ability does . As far i remeber no one did well against NZ so lets drop the whole team , he did make a decent 40 nd test shudnt even matter (in bad form ppl cant buy a run)

As far as a leggie goes he can be protected by pant and he can easily rotate strike, also as if rohit, KL, iyer, samson doesnt struggle against leggies. Only SKY n pant can smash leggies 

 

That is what Rohit, KL Rahul are for. Hard length balls. Not since the days when Dirk nannes, Tait, Mitch Johnson gave a complete working over in world T20 we have not been bothered by hard lengths. Rohit made 79.. Next highest was 10 or something. Everyone was brutally exposed by short pitched stuffs.  Since then vast majority of the collapses were against full swinging balls. Kohli himself was culprit of playing right across against left arm seamers repeatedly. He was even giiven a left off in 2017 CT final. Very next ball played exact same shot. Then in 2019 vs NZ did the same. 

Is Jadeja a great "hard length" ball bowler? Certainly not. Not many but Rohit/KL Rahul/Kohli are good with that. Only new guy who can do well is possibly Gill.  Everyone else is suspect. Even Dhawan is highly suspect against short balls. HE would often sky straight up in the air. We did back him for years. Raina is another guy. He has managed to mask that issue. Yuvraj was never comfortable against fast bouncers either. Fast full balls, medium pacer short balls.

[vvvslaxman]

4 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

iyer 

 

and which of these new guys plays moving ball well ??

Shaw or kishen 

Ur myth of iyer playing moving ball will be busted very soon 

SKY will also struggle 

 

Let us at least India lose with youngsters rather than the same old predictable line up.  Rohit's way of building the side is the only hope. Kohli was during his absolute peak in the last world T20 before this one.  This time he is not anywhere close to peak. Expecting miracle from him based on his knocks from 5 years back is extreme optimism. He may not hurt us like how Dhoni, Yuvi did in their fag end. But he will not be a great asset either. He could end up upsetting the balance. Hope Rohit brings the best out of him one last time. It is not an Iyer vs Kohli. Heck never play Iyer ever for all i care. But pick someone who can play hard lengths well.  Gill is an as good a pull shot player as Kohli. Back him if you wish since that is the only criteria we should look for.