Asian pacers outside home

[Mariyam]

7 hours ago, Adamant said:

Imran

Wasim

Waqar

Bumrah

 

Countymile

 

Dev

Shami

Vaas

Srinath

Countymile doesn't sound like an Asian name.

[Jay]

9 minutes ago, Mariyam said:

Countymile doesn't sound like an Asian name.

Think he meant Coulter Nile. He plays in psl alot. He is a citizen of Pakistan now. 

[Serpico]

2 hours ago, Rightarmfast said:

Beg to differ. Your criteria is too vague. We see more results because its more batsmen friendly era, they are playing their shots.

Which means more chances to get wickets. And pitches have also improved drastically, not many dead roads these days. There's a stat going around, jarrod kimber did a video on it, that the batting avg in last decade was the lowest its been since the 1940s. 

 

Just like how we see today's ODI batting averages with a grain of salt, test bowling avg should also be seen this way. 

 

Ofcourse Bumrah would have been sensational in any era, no doubt, but saying that he did it in batsmen friendly era is plain wrong

Edited April 1, 2022 by Serpico

[Jay]

15 minutes ago, Serpico said:

Which means more chances to get wickets. And pitches have also improved drastically, not many dead roads these days. There's a stat going around, jarrod kimber did a video on it, that the batting avg in last decade was the lowest its been since the 1940s. 

 

Just like how we see today's ODI batting averages with a grain of salt, test bowling avg should also be seen this way. 

 

Ofcourse Bumrah would have been sensational in any era, no doubt, but saying that he did it in batsmen friendly era is plain wrong

What about unlimited bouncer rule. No protective gear for batsmen. No drs. No No ball umpiring. No ball tampering due to cameras. Advanced data analytics etc to analyse a players ability. Players getting more securitised for game planning. 

It's best not to compare era's. 

Fitness levels are different. More formats. Franchise cricket. 

It's harder for both batsmen and bowlers to excel in current era. 

[vvvslaxman]

England was a horrible team in the 80s,90s, Australia was horrible in the first half of 80s.  West Indies got worse around 2000.  Pitches became even spin friendly at times.  NZ is a lottery. If you get to bowl on day one pitch when there is a bit of juice you walk a way with decent figures. It is hard to make conclusions based on raw stats. From my memory NZ always had struggles against raw pace and full balls. For a very long time raw pace bowlers did very well in NZ.  In Australia it is a bit more unpredictable. Random guys stepped up for different countries.  Same way in England it depends on where you play, what season you play, which conditions you play on. You can make an educated opinion. Stats is helpful to some extent. But not helpful enough to make a judgement who is good in these parts. 

[putrevus]

2 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

England was a horrible team in the 80s,90s, Australia was horrible in the first half of 80s.  West Indies got worse around 2000.  Pitches became even spin friendly at times.  NZ is a lottery. If you get to bowl on day one pitch when there is a bit of juice you walk a way with decent figures. It is hard to make conclusions based on raw stats. From my memory NZ always had struggles against raw pace and full balls. For a very long time raw pace bowlers did very well in NZ.  In Australia it is a bit more unpredictable. Random guys stepped up for different countries.  Same way in England it depends on where you play, what season you play, which conditions you play on. You can make an educated opinion. Stats is helpful to some extent. But not helpful enough to make a judgement who is good in these parts. 

Shouldn't same thing apply for batsman.From 1990 to 2002 India played in England on very very flat pitches. and Once a series when faced with little green wickets they stumbled.Samething in SL they were absolute roads in 1990s and early 2000s.Guy like Dravid still struggled on those roads.

[vvvslaxman]

15 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Shouldn't same thing apply for batsman.From 1990 to 2002 India played in England on very very flat pitches. and Once a series when faced with little green wickets they stumbled.Samething in SL they were absolute roads in 1990s and early 2000s.Guy like Dravid still struggled on those roads.

Any bowler who took wickets in 2002 tour of Nz got lucky with overly bowler friendly drop in pitches. Batsmen couldn't buy a run. Dravid made 76 or so in one innings. In the next tour it was batting friendly.

[Jay]

6 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

Any bowler who took wickets in 2002 tour of Nz got lucky with overly bowler friendly drop in pitches. Batsmen couldn't buy a run. Dravid made 76 or so in one innings. In the next tour it was batting friendly.

Our fab 4 and most batting units of 2000 and 90s are vastly overrated. People are just way way too nostalgic. 

On spicier pitches none of them would be able to handle the heat of modern bowlers. 

 

Sure in pattas they may make merry but they would never be able to score 600 plus consistently like they used to vs those 90s and 2000 era teams. 

Edited April 1, 2022 by Jay

[vvvslaxman]

34 minutes ago, Jay said:

Our fab 4 and most batting units of 2000 and 90s are vastly overrated. People are just way way too nostalgic. 

On spicier pitches none of them would be able to handle the heat of modern bowlers. 

 

Sure in pattas they may make merry but they would never be able to score 600 plus consistently like they used to vs those 90s and 2000 era teams. 

 

In English conditions even the worn out Rahul Dravid batted better than both sides. There is no question about how good Rahul Dravid is in swinging conditions compared to current crop. His ability to play besides the ball was outstanding.  

 

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/records/averages/batting_bowling_by_team.html?id=6112;team=6;type=series

 

 

[vvvslaxman]

SENA filter gives us false picture. England uses Duke. Other three countries use Kookaburra. Two countries have bouncy surfaces. In one country first day is good for bowlers, last day is harder to bowl. In one country weather plays a big part. Even in Australia SCG, Adelaide slightly favors spinners more. Gabba is quickish. Perth was bouncy for a long time. Keeper used to stand yards behind the stumps at Perth. That is not the Perth we see now. Only spicy pitch in OZ is Gabba not always though. During Michael Clarke era Australia developed this strategy of rolling out flat tracks and batting opponents out of the game. We can't come to a blanket conclusion.  Ishant is a telling example. Played in both era. He sucked balls upto a point. Moment batting standard went down he started averaging in the low 20s.

Edited April 2, 2022 by vvvslaxman

[Jay]

57 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

In English conditions even the worn out Rahul Dravid batted better than both sides. There is no question about how good Rahul Dravid is in swinging conditions compared to current crop. His ability to play besides the ball was outstanding.  

 

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/records/averages/batting_bowling_by_team.html?id=6112;team=6;type=series

 

 

Not talking about one player. Overall sacchu kucchu laxman ganguly all sucks on such conditions when the pitches were spciy.

 

Rahul sucked vs pace and bounce. Let ve honest. He got wrecked in s.africa even on some docile tracks. 

 

If they played our goat attack they would struggle in this era on spicy pitches very badly. 

[Jay]

54 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

SENA filter gives us false picture. England uses Duke. Other three countries use Kookaburra. Two countries have bouncy surfaces. In one country first day is good for bowlers, last day is harder to bowl. In one country weather plays a big part. Even in Australia SCG, Adelaide slightly favors spinners more. Gabba is quickish. Perth was bouncy for a long time. Keeper used to stand yards behind the stumps at Perth. That is not the Perth we see now. Only spicy pitch in OZ is Gabba not always though. During Michael Clarke era Australia developed this strategy of rolling out flat tracks and batting opponents out of the game. We can't come to a blanket conclusion.  Ishant is a telling example. Played in both era. He sucked balls upto a point. Moment batting standard went down he started averaging in the low 20s.

Nope. Drs was taken by india post Dhoni. That's when we started seeing change. Batting dint go down. Batting is just harder vs top quality bowling now. 

Besides ishant improved because he played alongside world class bowlers like bumrah and shami. 

 

 

[vvvslaxman]

40 minutes ago, Jay said:

Nope. Drs was taken by india post Dhoni. That's when we started seeing change. Batting dint go down. Batting is just harder vs top quality bowling now. 

Besides ishant improved because he played alongside world class bowlers like bumrah and shami. 

 

 

 

There is no more Alistair cook, Strauss, Graeme smith, Kevin pietersen kind of players. Root is the only decent from England. From Australia only Smith and Labu are decent. SA has hardly any decent players. ABDV/Faf are the last 2 decent batsmen. No sangakkara type of batsmen  England pretty much sucked against all teams, Against NZ,  India, Australia, Ireland, West Indies.

[Jay]

1 hour ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

There is no more Alistair cook, Strauss, Graeme smith, Kevin pietersen kind of players. Root is the only decent from England. From Australia only Smith and Labu are decent. SA has hardly any decent players. ABDV/Faf are the last 2 decent batsmen. No sangakkara type of batsmen  England pretty much sucked against all teams, Against NZ,  India, Australia, Ireland, West Indies.

Yea all those players struggle badly on spicy pitches too except ABD to a lesser extent. They only do well On flatties. 

 

 

[vvvslaxman]

2 hours ago, Jay said:

Yea all those players struggle badly on spicy pitches too except ABD to a lesser extent. They only do well On flatties. 

 

 

 

Hard to tell whether a track is flat or not if a side keeps getting bowled out for low scores every goddamn place like India did against NZ 6 times in a row. In NZ atleast in 2 of the innings conditions were easier. Even Bangladesh batted better there. Same way in SA we struggled, BD batted better.  SL absolutley decimated an ace pace attack chasing a big total. 

[Rightarmfast]

18 hours ago, Serpico said:

Which means more chances to get wickets. And pitches have also improved drastically, not many dead roads these days. There's a stat going around, jarrod kimber did a video on it, that the batting avg in last decade was the lowest its been since the 1940s. 

 

Just like how we see today's ODI batting averages with a grain of salt, test bowling avg should also be seen this way. 

 

Ofcourse Bumrah would have been sensational in any era, no doubt, but saying that he did it in batsmen friendly era is plain wrong

You are far from reality. Do you even know the kind of pitches the bowlers of the past used to bowl on? And the number of bouncers they were allowed? And the safety gears batsmen used to wear? and scrutiny on no balls? on tampered balls? 

Brother, get your facts right.

[Serpico]

28 minutes ago, Rightarmfast said:

Do you even know the kind of pitches the bowlers of the past used to bowl on? And the number of bouncers they were allowed? And the safety gears batsmen used to wear? and scrutiny on no balls? on tampered balls? 

Brother, get your facts right.

So how did draw % go from 45% to 19%? Surely, batting era should witness more teams managing draws? 

[ABDfan]

On 3/31/2022 at 1:31 PM, Jay said:

No way shami is lower than Waqar. That's a joke.

Nope that's not a jock tyron Woodley from pp

[Jay]

Just now, ABDfan said:

Nope that's not a jock tyron Woodley from pp

it is muppet. 

[ABDfan]

4 minutes ago, Jay said:

it is muppet. 

Yup thats what you bring to this forum