Building a bowling attack for this year t20 Wc

[express bowling]

Just now, vvvslaxman said:

 

Same reason why he was the captain of India for so long without winning any multinational tournament. He is crap.

 

Kohli captained us in 1 ODI WC and 1 T20 World Cup.

 

Lost and has been removed.

 

Did not happen for RCB.

[Lord]

1 minute ago, DarkProfile said:

 

Deepak and Thakur are gritty players and I admire them. My only grouch against them is they leak a lot of runs and can only be used in PP or at max Middle phase. And if they get hit in the PP, the opposition teams gain momentum and carry it till the end with a huge score.

 

Deepak and Thakur are not same. Deepak is very reliable in PP and decent in middle overs. As he will be 5th bowler,no need to bowl him in death. Sundar will also bowl those overs only. 

 

1 minute ago, DarkProfile said:

 

Sundar has actually the second highest Str. Rate in PP phase in the current IPL. I was actually surprised.

 

 

Sundar batted in PP? If these are bowling,its just Indian tracks

 

I like his coolness and a big fan as future all format player,but as of now he struggled to clear infield v WI. Times it but that's not enough in slog overs.

[Lord]

5 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

Non stop cricket takes its toll.

 

It's taking a toll on Rabada and Cummins in white ball cricket too.

 

That's why he needs a break. The performances aren't because he doesnt take IPL seriously

[express bowling]

3 minutes ago, maniac said:

You are talking about the business aspect.  I am not even going there.
 

I am talking about individual cricketer  aspect.

 

I don’t think any professional will ever think, I am only going to give 80% today because I might have a big game in 3 weeks time. Sure they might take the pedal off the gas  once in a while in a dead rubber type situation or if the game is done and dusted to preserve themselves but I don’t think they  are going into an IPL tournament with that mentality of a paid holiday or slowing down on intensity. As I said I am speculating too. If they are doing that, it’s a huge problem.

 

If the players don’t take it seriously themselves then no point wasting our time.

 

I don’t think they do.

 

 

T20 league cricket all over the world is a combination of business and frivolous entertainment.

 

Top players know it. 

 

Some fans don't.

 

 

[express bowling]

27 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

That's why he needs a break. The performances aren't because he doesnt take IPL seriously

 

I am not talking about Bumrah individually.

 

For almost all big international cricketers, the extra intensity comes in when they are playing for their country. Players like Rabada are odd exceptions.

 

 

Edited April 21, 2022 by express bowling

[maniac]

Just now, express bowling said:

 

I am not talking about Bimrah individually.

 

For almost all international cricketers, the extra intensity comes in when they are playing for their country.

 

 

subconsciously may be but I wouldn’t think they would slack off when they are not playing for their country especially when they get a big payout. 
 

How difficult it is to motivate yourself for 8 weeks for 100% intensity for the kind of money you won’t see in your lifetime playing cricket.
 

If that doesn’t motivate you and only playing for your country does that makes you unprofessional regardless of what your profession is. The best bet then would be to join the army.

[express bowling]

22 minutes ago, DarkProfile said:

 

A valid point, EB. But I'd respectfully like to know the benchmark that will confirm you that Bumrah is not performing as per the expectations?

 

Bumrah is indeed underperforming in T20s from 2021 and in ODIs from 2020.

 

Looking at how he has done in ODIs snd T20Is will tell us this.

 

Our problem is that, we don't have any other dependable T20I pacers apart from him. By dependable I mean someone who will control the economy rate atleast on more occasions than not  Bhuvi's fitness is too iffy to consider him at a same level despite being economical.

 

Let's say you and I are given the job of actually selecting our T20I squad for the WC ... both of us will find it very difficult to actually drop Bumrah. His replacement may go at 10 or 12 runs an over snd mess everything up.

 

 

[Ankit_sharma03]

1 hour ago, DarkProfile said:

 

Bumrah's "ability" gushed out in torrent today, didn't it?

ability doesnt go anywhere at bumrah age

A cricketer has around 15 yrs of career and no one will ever be at top forver. We are lucky that we hav guys like Bumrah, Kohli has been excellent in all 3 formats and consistent too.............to expect them not have bad phase is unrealistic 

Even top cricketers like Smith, cummins, Root, Anderson arent good in all formats in 1st place itself 

[Ankit_sharma03]

1 hour ago, DarkProfile said:

 

Bumrah's "ability" gushed out in torrent today, didn't it?

ability doesnt go anywhere at bumrah age

A cricketer has around 15 yrs of career and no one will ever be at top forver. We are lucky that we hav guys like Bumrah, Kohli has been excellent in all 3 formats and consistent too.............to expect them not have bad phase is unrealistic 

Even top cricketers like Smith, cummins, Root, Anderson arent good in all formats in 1st place itself 

[express bowling]

10 minutes ago, maniac said:

subconsciously may be but I wouldn’t think they would slack off when they are not playing for their country especially when they get a big payout. 
 

How difficult it is to motivate yourself for 8 weeks for 100% intensity for the kind of money you won’t see in your lifetime playing cricket.
 

If that doesn’t motivate you and only playing for your country does that makes you unprofessional regardless of what your profession is. The best bet then would be to join the army.

 

 

But I don't see it happening with 90% of the big international players. 

 

Just saying as I see it.

 

The big fat paychecks are for being there and putting up a grand entertainment  ... which they are doing successfully..

 

All the micro snalysis of cricketing aspects in T20 league cricket is done only on ICF and by the professional commentators     :  )

[maniac]

Just now, Ankit_sharma03 said:

ability doesnt go anywhere at bumrah age

A cricketer has around 15 yrs of career and no one will ever be at top forver. We are lucky that we hav guys like Bumrah, Kohli has been excellent in all 3 formats and consistent too.............to expect them not have bad phase is unrealistic 

Even top cricketers like Smith, cummins, Root, Anderson arent good in all formats in 1st place itself 

No one questions Bumrah’s legacy or for the matter of fact Rohit or Kohli’s. When some one is out of form they are out of form. That’s about it. 
 

Also teams prepare for him now.

 

Difference  between Ashwin and Bumrah is, Ashwin also goes wicketkess but builds the pressure where someone like Chahal, Axar or even Jadeja can take advantage. In Bumrah’s case he has become predictable and his fellow bowlers have also become toothless.

 

 

[DarkProfile]

2 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

Bumrah is indeed underperforming in T20s from 2021 and in ODIs from 2020.

 

Looking at how he has done in ODIs snd T20Is will tell us this.

 

Our problem is that, we don't have any other dependable T20I pacers apart from him. By dependable I mean someone who will control the economy rate atleast on more occasions than not  Bhuvi's fitness is too iffy to consider him at a same level despite being economical.

 

Let's say you and I are given the job of actually selecting our T20I squad for the WC ... both of us will find it very difficult to actually drop Bumrah. His replacement may go at 10 or 12 runs an over snd mess everything up.

 

 

 

Nattu and Harshal don't inspire much confidence in you for death bowling?

 

They are my go-to death bowlers as of now. But my impression is strictly from IPL, and therefore I may be naive and fickle on a deeper understanding. But I did check Nattu's record in Australia. And he did attract attention with his impressive death bowling there during the 2020 bilateral series.

[DarkProfile]

10 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

ability doesnt go anywhere at bumrah age

A cricketer has around 15 yrs of career and no one will ever be at top forver. We are lucky that we hav guys like Bumrah, Kohli has been excellent in all 3 formats and consistent too.............to expect them not have bad phase is unrealistic 

Even top cricketers like Smith, cummins, Root, Anderson arent good in all formats in 1st place itself 

 

So, you won't drop him, Kohli and Sharma from the team till they have completed 15 years of their international cricket despite their form? Some govt job this?

Edited April 21, 2022 by DarkProfile

[express bowling]

5 minutes ago, DarkProfile said:

 

Nattu and Harshal don't inspire much confidence in you for death bowling?

 

They are my go-to death bowlers as of now. But my impression is strictly from IPL, and therefore I may be naive and fickle on a deeper understanding. But I did check Nattu's record in Australia. And he did attract attention with his impressive death bowling there during the 2020 bilateral series.

 

 

I think Harshsl is going to be there anyway in his own right partnering Bumrah at the death.  He won't be a replacement. His batting abity gives him the edge over Nattu.

 

Nattu maybe there too. But he has played so little international cricket that no one really knows what to expect on the big stage. (  Sort of same with Harshal )

 

Plus both are very dibbly-dobbly bowlers. Too many of such pacers often means the batsmen start lining them up on non-gripping wickets. 

 

 

[Ankit_sharma03]

2 hours ago, maniac said:

When some one is out of form they are out of form.

form can come n go very quickly in t20, ppl didnt understand this last yr with warner as well. Yuvraj singh was out of form for a year or two befoire 2011 Wc. Rohit dhawan were out of form before 2019 Wc (im sure u wud emeber many calling for their heads)

Every year we see players struggling in IPL and then scoring in international and vice versa . 

 

Same will happen again IPL form will have nothing to do With Wc form which by the way is still 6 months away n absolutely diff conditions

[DarkProfile]

I was just checking the BBL final. Sydney Sixers won it with a bowling attack that consisted mostly of trundlers (Ben Dwarshuis, Sean Abbott), who were bowling slow off-cutters during the death phase to get wickets. Their main strike bowler in PP/Middle phase was Jackson Bird, who took two wickets by banging short outside the off and is similar in style to Prasidh / Khaleel.

 

After IPL is over, I'll create a similar spreadsheet for BBL to see which kind of bowlers fared best in the PP, Middle and Death phase. That will give some insight.

 

But I feel that Pace works best in PP / Middle phase & Variation works best in Death phase.

[DarkProfile]

21 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

form can come n go very quickly in t20, ppl didnt understand this last yr with warner as well. Yuvraj singh was out of form for a year or two befoire 2011 Wc. Rohit dhawan were out of form before 2019 Wc (im sure u wud emeber many calling for their heads)

Every year we see players struggling in IPL and then scoring in international and vice versa . 

 

Same will happen again IPL form will have nothing to do With Wc form which by the way is still 6 months away n absolutely diff conditions

 

You haven't yet answered my question. According to you, since form is temporary and numbers don't reveal the true "ability" of superheroes like Bumrah, Kohli, Dhawan and Sharma, then under what criteria/benchmark will you qualify them as non-performers? Or, will you simply wait for them to complete their 15 years of international cricket and then retire them out? Unlike Warner, did Bumrah perform in the last T20 WC?

Edited April 21, 2022 by DarkProfile

[express bowling]

8 hours ago, DarkProfile said:

I was just checking the BBL final. Sydney Sixers won it with a bowling attack that consisted mostly of trundlers (Ben Dwarshuis, Sean Abbott), who were bowling slow off-cutters during the death phase to get wickets. Their main strike bowler in PP/Middle phase was Jackson Bird, who took two wickets by banging short outside the off and is similar in style to Prasidh / Khaleel.

 

After IPL is over, I'll create a similar spreadsheet for BBL to see which kind of bowlers fared best in the PP, Middle and Death phase. That will give some insight.

 

But I feel that Pace works best in PP / Middle phase & Variation works best in Death phase.

 

 

The quality of batting has to be considered too.

 

Very few top batsmen played the match.

[DarkProfile]

1 hour ago, express bowling said:

 

 

The quality of batting has to be considered too.

 

Very few top batsmen played the match.

 

That's correct. But the two final teams reached there after defeating teams that had Stoinis, Maxwell, Finch, Livingstone, etc.

 

Anyway, I will do the stats on the whole BBL 2021/22 series to get a better idea about the bowlers.

[Adamant]

Let's rate the spin bowling attack of various countries :

 

1. Afg - Rashid Khan, Mujeeb, Nabi. 

2. SriLanka - Hasaranga, Theekshana, Akila Dananjaya. 

3. South Africa - Shamsi, Maharaj, Linde. 

4. Bangladesh - Shakib, Mehedi. 

5. INDIA - Chahal, Kuldeep, Jaddu. 

6.Eng - Adil Rashid, Moeen. 

7. Aus - Zampa, Swepson

8. NZ- Santner, Sodhi. 

9. West Indies - Warrican, Chase, Narine. 

10. Pakistan - Imad, Shadab. 

 

 

For me the Indian spin attack is not amongst the top 5 spin bowling attacks in t20. The abundance of average spinners don't really help us. 

 

We need quality not quantity. Talent surplus? No, Quantity surplus - Yes.