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Will the emergence of Umran Malik wake up the other IPL franchises to scout and buy genuine Indian pace bowlers instead of trundlers?


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42 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

Indian pacers started bowling quickly as a group from mid-2015. That too in test matches.

 

And Bumrah's introduction in tests in January 2018 improved both the pace and hostility, along with quality.

 

After this there has been a steady stream of quicks coming through. 

 

The lock down in 2020 and no Ranji Trophy set us back by 18 months. But we are back on track now. 

 

Nowadays, anything less than high quality bowling at 135 k to 145 k or more, seems disappointing if it's Indian quicks bowling.

I want every IPL team to have at least one Indian fast bowler hitting 150 kph and multiple 140+ bowlers. I believe in future teams will stop picking overseas fast bowlers completely and only Indian fast bowlers will be ruling. I do so much scouting online for YouTube channel m I see serious fast bowling potential. UP alone can produce 20 140+ bowlers currently along with Rajasthan then Jharkhand and Bihar. Punjab is also catching up with likes of Gurnoor Singh Brar and Hartejasvi Kapoor. There are some more. Even Delhi isn't far behind.

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16 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

I want every IPL team to have at least one Indian fast bowler hitting 150 kph and multiple 140+ bowlers. I believe in future teams will stop picking overseas fast bowlers completely and only Indian fast bowlers will be ruling. I do so much scouting online for YouTube channel m I see serious fast bowling potential. UP alone can produce 20 140+ bowlers currently along with Rajasthan then Jharkhand and Bihar. Punjab is also catching up with likes of Gurnoor Singh Brar and Hartejasvi Kapoor. There are some more. Even Delhi isn't far behind.

 

 

The biggest impediment to us developing more and more quick bowlers is ... either trundlers or " past it Seniors "  blocking crucial spots, both in domestic teams as well as in LOI teams.

 

Prasidh had to wait for 6 years to be a regular for his state team despite having a very low FC average. Khaleel has played very few FC matches either.  Tyagi might struggle to find a spot too.

 

And we often play 3 trundlers in T20Is.

 

This problem must be solved if we want the quick bowling talent to develop faster.

 

Otherwise, Rajasthan, UP, MP and to some extent Delhi are almost overflowing with quick bowlers.

 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, MultiB48 said:

Without playing u19 or state they won't be picked.

BCCI must remove this stupid clause. Once auction process is stopped, there won't be such rule, it will be up to franchisees to pick whoever they want to. In future, franchisees will start developing their own players from u19 and u23 level rather than just depending on BCCI domestic teams. 

Edited by rkt.india
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8 hours ago, rkt.india said:

BCCI must remove this stupid clause. Once auction process is stopped, there won't be such rule, it will be up to franchisees to pick whoever they want to. In future, franchisees will start developing their own players from u19 and u23 level rather than just depending on BCCI domestic teams. 

Which Indian pace bowler has IPL developed except Bumrah? 

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17 hours ago, express bowling said:

Indian pacers started bowling quickly as a group from mid-2015. That too in test matches.

Improved fitness is also one of the core reason, most of our bowlers had poor fitness during 2012-2015 (except Umesh, Ishant). Bhuvi was bowling 114-117k's in 3rd session of England's 2014 tour.
Shami used to start at 135-140 and by the end of day he used to bowl at 128-133 during Australia tour of 2014. 

Now, with the improved fitness, Shami is able to hit 140's even at the end of the day. 

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10 hours ago, Pollack said:

Which Indian pace bowler has IPL developed except Bumrah? 

Even Bumrah in actuality isn't developed by IPL. He was already playing for Gujarat before IPL happened but it's possible in future. There are several bowlers currently with IPL teams as net bowlers haven't played for state teams yet.

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1 hour ago, Vilander said:

Inevitable imagine a GT almost as worth as BCCI will they still tow the line. 

Some teams like RR already have their own u19 squads. Cricket and IPL are ultimately controlled by BCCI but franchisees can develop their own talents.

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Umran has been severely criticized & told pace is not everything.  Feel for him honestly. 

He has to find his own way out of it.  It's a rough road ahead of him.  Another Varun Aaron or Munaf Patel. 

Kartik Tyagi will make his debut when he is 27-28...  Pace will have dropped to high 130's. 

 

Budding express Pacers like Avinash Singh, Gurnoor Brar,  Waseem Bashir won't see light of the day & will perish into oblivion. 

@express bowling @Mosher

Edited by Lone Wolf
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23 minutes ago, MK55 said:

LMAO

Difficult to get over a fetish lol. In this case, it’s someone who shows ‘control’ and hasn’t got the technique to bowl quick. Someone who has a high perceived intelligence. The slower u bowl, the smarter u are :laugh:

amarnath (jimmy) was the smartest bowler as per this criterion.

 

the shameful thing is that most of these IPL "pacers" are bowling slower than 41 yr old Andie (anderson) in the 3rd/4th spell in a test

Edited by Vijy
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30 minutes ago, MK55 said:

LMAO

Difficult to get over a fetish lol. In this case, it’s someone who shows ‘control’ and hasn’t got the technique to bowl quick. Someone who has a high perceived intelligence. The slower u bowl, the smarter u are :laugh:

I wonder from where this logic must have came up....Bumrah is smartest bowler ever played for India and he's fast.
In comparison, the trundlers like Harshal Patel seems to have no idea what to do in which situation. 

I blame Dhoni for sowing this seed of line and length trundlers...he was always a spinner's captain and hence fast bowling took a backseat. 
Kohli and Rohit picked up the traits from him and are following the same tradition. Add to that our coaches who don't know what to do with extreme pace and thus advice to bowl slower and deceive the batters.

I am sure even Dale Steyn must be thinking "to hell with these fast bowlers, let me enjoy my time here and let the selectors get what they seek for. I am anyway gonna get a fat paycheck no matter what"

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First, India rarely produces express pace bowlers like Umran. Therefore, there are not too many options. There are a few bowlers who ball in the 140-145 range, and most of them would be a part of some squad. 
 

Second, IPL is NOT necessarily about developing Indian players (IPL is not to be confused with SMAT, the domestic T20 tournament).

 

IPL is like a mini-ICC annual event. IPL teams fight for every point as many lose out on a playoff berth by a few decimals of NRR. Only time players get to practise hard is during the short pre tournament camps. Teams can spend a lot of time traveling between matches.
 

IPL is about “fine tuning” a good player as most are expected to hit the ground running. Players are chosen per the combination and conditions, along with form. Because of the high pressure situations, teams may prefer experienced players.
 

To play, new players have to improve constantly and hit the ground running. Only a handful of young players are backed by franchises and that too because they are considered exceptional talent and future stars who can bring additional fans to the franchise. 

Edited by zen
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12 hours ago, zen said:

First, India rarely produces express pace bowlers like Umran. Therefore, there are not too many options. There are a few bowlers who ball in the 140-145 range, and most of them would be a part of some squad. 
 

Second, IPL is NOT necessarily about developing Indian players (IPL is not to be confused with SMAT, the domestic T20 tournament).

 

IPL is like a mini-ICC annual event. IPL teams fight for every point as many lose out on a playoff berth by a few decimals of NRR. Only time players get to practise hard is during the short pre tournament camps. Teams can spend a lot of time traveling between matches.
 

IPL is about “fine tuning” a good player as most are expected to hit the ground running. Players are chosen per the combination and conditions, along with form. Because of the high pressure situations, teams may prefer experienced players.
 

To play, new players have to improve constantly and hit the ground running. Only a handful of young players are backed by franchises and that too because they are considered exceptional talent and future stars who can bring additional fans to the franchise. 

I'd like to see how mohit sharma, Boobi, harshal, etc can be considered good players in the first place. they are tripe (i.e., rubbish).

 

likes of karthik tyagi would do just as well, perhaps even better, even with much less experience. And such players can rapidly improve if given longer run. hence, if the franchises did a better calculation -- instead of resorting to their trundler fetishes -- they would do better to invest in such players to achieve better short- and long-term results

Edited by Vijy
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1 hour ago, Vijy said:

I'd like to see how mohit sharma, Boobi, harshal, etc can be considered good players in the first place. they are tripe (i.e., rubbish).

 

likes of karthik tyagi would do just as well, perhaps even better, even with much less experience. And such players can rapidly improve if given longer run. hence, if the franchises did a better calculation -- instead of resorting to their trundler fetishes -- they would do better to invest in such players to achieve better short- and long-term results

 

We need to understand that in the history of Indian cricket, we have not seen 10 high-quality fast bowlers (The King Trundler, Kapil, is still highly regarded).  There are 10 franchises, therefore it can be difficult for many to get even 1 high-quality fast bowler. 

 

Franchises pick bowlers to play certain roles in certain conditions. Mohit, Bhuvi, Harshal, etc., esp. if in form can bring certain value. Just because we are fascinated with what is fast (I am too as folks know I tend to support bowlers like Umran), it does not mean that these bowlers (esp. since India does not produce high-quality pace bowlers in abundance) should be automatically seen as average. We have seen a Mohit become a Man of the Match playing in a lineup where other pacers usually bowl in the 142-148 range; a Sandeep Sharma, surprisingly, bowls well at the death (executed yorkers well) for RR; etc. Many trundlers bring certain specific skills such as swing (Arshdeep, Bhuvi, D Chahar, etc.), yorkers (Harshal, Natrajan, Bhuvi, etc.), and change of pace (Harshal, who needs the ball to grip. At Banglore, the ball can skid on to the bat). On the other hand, Umran went for 28 runs over v KKR iirc (was given a relatively new ball in PP which is not necessarily his forte and the field placement could have been better).

 

Even among the overseas bowlers, we see only a handful of quality high-pace bowlers like Joseph, Wood, Ferguson (not bowling that well currently), and Nortje, along with the bowl short or full Odean Smith.  Rabada has lost pace. Most of the overseas pace bowlers are mostly medium to medium-fast bowlers such as Magala, Willey, Parnell, Begerendorf, Meredith,  Holder, Boult, Ellis, Curran, Mustafizur, Stoinis, Sams, Southee, Jansen, etc. 

 

Tyagi is in SRH. To get into the 11, he has to impress its team management. If Tyagi were bowling better than those picked, he would be getting his chances. He tends to get injured too. It is a long tournament where bowlers are rotated so if Tyagi gets his chance, he should try to grab the opportunity. 

 

Edited by zen
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1 hour ago, zen said:

 

We need to understand that in the history of Indian cricket, we have not seen 10 high-quality fast bowlers (The King Trundler, Kapil, is still highly regarded).  There are 10 franchises, therefore it can be difficult for many to get even 1 high-quality fast bowler. 

I agree that we don't have many high quality fast bowlers, but we had our share of fast medium (135k+) bowlers who were decent to quality.
Over the history after Kapil we had Srinath, Zaheer, Nehra, Agarkar, Ishant 2.0, Umesh (genuinly fast between 2010-2017), Bumrah, Shami and Siraj who are above average. But even they knew that bowling 135+ is a minimum requirement (Kapil was an exception because he was an allrounder, but even he must be 135k in his younger days).

Problem is in current IPL, we have many bowlers who are bowling under 135k (Sakariya, Avesh, Sandeep, Bhuvi, Arjun, Yash Thakur, Unadkut, Arshad, Mukesh)...even likes of Khaleel who used to operate in high 130's is now trundling in early 130's. While the likes of Tyagi, Nagarkoti, Harshit Rana, Mayank Yadav who are fast (140k+) are sitting on bench despite their teams in bottom half of the points table.
Only exception is Umran who played this year but is not in form (Prasidh, Mohsin, Bumrah and supposedly Kuldeep Sen are injured) and Tushar/Asif who are far from international quality.

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1 hour ago, singhvivek141 said:

While the likes of Tyagi, Nagarkoti, Harshit Rana, Mayank Yadav who are fast (140k+) are sitting on bench despite their teams in bottom half of the points table.

 

A franchise is primarily concerned with how it does in the IPL (using both Indian and overseas players. It should ideally not show bias to any nationality and many franchises don't as they field overseas coaches, pay a huge amount for overseas players, pick overseas captains, etc.) and still with 9-10 games to go, will not play a player x if it is not too confident about him. 

 

The franchises are not playing IPL to do badly (assuming that its team management is attempting to field in-form players per conditions and playing combination). Many franchises see even getting a wooden spoon as a black spot in their history. 

 

The issue is the inability of many fans to understand what IPL is. They probably dream that it is a 2-month camp where upcoming Indian players are to be developed by franchises at any cost including spending 100s of 1000s of dollars to hire coaches to benefit Indian cricket (IPL is not SMAT, Ind's T20 domestic tournament). For franchises, Team India can be irrelevant. Indians or overseas selectors can look at players in IPL to pick their squad, but an IPL team's goal is to field an optimal 11 (for conditions and playing combinations) for itself. 

 

Franchises need players to hit the ground running and handle high-pressure situations so are likely to field experienced players who have gone through various situations and gone through ups and downs to find a way to succeed. Apart from a short camp before the IPL, teams do not even get too much time to practice. With most of the games played every 3-5 days, time is usually spent on traveling b/w games and remaining fresh before a game. 

 

To be selected or given a preference, players esp. relatively new ones have to show good form coming into the tournament, impress the team management in the short pre-tournament camp, etc. If a player is not been given preference despite no injuries, he has to simply work harder. Only a handful of new players are backed by a franchise. Most such backed young players are usually seen as exceptional talents and future stars. 

 


PS if/when the limit on overseas players is removed, we may not even see an Indian player in the 11-12 of some teams!

 

 

Edited by zen
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