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sandeep

Gyanvapi mosque in Kashi - whats going on?

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1 hour ago, ash said:


The same point again. If you take a census in Europe, most of them would be Christians. but Is it an uniting factor?

 

Is there any data that before British rule, Indian kingdoms were divided based on religion? We were basically separate countries when the Britishers came here, united by Language more than anything else. Separate  small countries with its own cuisine, culture , language and identity

 

 

India is a civilizational state which is the binding factor - not a purely religious state.

 

I hope you know what a civilizational state means.

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31 minutes ago, Clarke said:

 

Should I also act idiotic and cite Pakistan or BD with respect to ur Europe nonsense ? You may not wish Hinduism unites India to whatever extent but it does in certain ways from one border to another.


In India , Language unites people more than Religion. A Tamil or Malayalam Hindu would definitely feel closer to a Tamil/Malayalam Christian/Muslim than a UP or Bihar Hindu. Food, Pop culture, Locality etc etc plays a part. 

 

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12 hours ago, ash said:


classic victim mentality on display here comparing reservations with rebuilding temples.

 

you need to understand history first before playing the victim card. Destroying the opponents holy sites as part of conquest is a common tactic in all kingdoms. Even before Islamic invaders, Hindu kings have destroyed and looted opponent’s Hindu temples as part of conquest to show their power. A simple google search will give you many examples of this. Even the famous Puri Jagannath temple was allegedly a Buddhist temple before. This is what happens in a country with such a long history. **** happens. There is absolutely nothing to be gained here by reopening the old wound, except communal clashes and consolidating vote banks

 

And that is why August 15 1947 should be a clean slate for all religions structures

 

I am not sure if I am fully supportive of historical rebuilding of temples all over the place, however, your attempt at false equivalence of 'hindu kings destroying temples too' is a completely fabricated talking point and a marker of ignorance.  The sheer number and scale simply does not compare.  Its pure conjecture, extrapolation and done with malicious intent.  Its another thing that well-meaning innocents like you and me bought this fake propaganda hook line and sinker - simply because we absorbed it at impressionable ages.

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7 hours ago, Clarke said:

 

Should I also act idiotic and cite Pakistan or BD with respect to ur Europe nonsense ? You may not wish Hinduism unites India to whatever extent but it does in certain ways from one border to another.

 

Its not just about one 'religion' - its culture.  why is Namaste a universal greeting across the subcontinent? why is the sari ubiqutous as traditional wear, of course draping styles are regional, but the sari is supreme - except where its been forcibly eradicated in the converted masses that partitioned themselves into separate entities.  Bharat was always there as an idea - from the Himalayas to the peninsular tip.   One doesn't become some sort of 'bigoted hindutva' drone by recognizing that obvious fact...

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7 hours ago, ash said:


In India , Language unites people more than Religion. A Tamil or Malayalam Hindu would definitely feel closer to a Tamil/Malayalam Christian/Muslim than a UP or Bihar Hindu. Food, Pop culture, Locality etc etc plays a part. 

 

bullshit.  classic aggrandized frog in the well claims extrapolated from personal anecdotes.

 

 

 

 

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11 hours ago, ash said:


In India , Language unites people more than Religion. A Tamil or Malayalam Hindu would definitely feel closer to a Tamil/Malayalam Christian/Muslim than a UP or Bihar Hindu. Food, Pop culture, Locality etc etc plays a part. 

 

Only when that christian/muslim does not start his/her "we are superior" monotheistic bullshit. And only if he/she does not consider my gods as devils.

 

FFS, I know telugu christians who are not even comfortable if I put the picture of sai baba on my work desk. I will be much happier around a Tamil Brahm than these idiotic fools.

 

 

 

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On 5/18/2022 at 10:52 AM, ash said:

What is the point of forming a democracy and constitution, if we keep bringing up ancient history? 15th August 1947 should be considered as a clean slate

 

The “India” we know now is formed because of the freedom struggle. A common enemy united us and everyone who fought the Britishers, stayed back in India in partition and worked for the country are Indians. Absolute buffoonery to tag people as Mughals , Arabs, foreigners etc. Who gave you the authority to claim that you are the “True Indian” ?

There is NO clean slate with imperialistic, intolerant and violent ideologies like monotheisms. Their only aim is the expansion.

 

 

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4 hours ago, sandeep said:

bullshit.  classic aggrandized frog in the well claims extrapolated from personal anecdotes.

 

 

 

 


Lol, everything shared here in the forum is a personal anecdote, from their POV. Does every Hindu in India want the temple to be built, any data to back this up? The frogs are just croaking from the Madura well aren’t they? 
 

Language is obviously a greater unifying force than Religion in South from what I have observed and what the polls indicate. 

 

4 hours ago, sandeep said:

 

I am not sure if I am fully supportive of historical rebuilding of temples all over the place, however, your attempt at false equivalence of 'hindu kings destroying temples too' is a completely fabricated talking point and a marker of ignorance.  The sheer number and scale simply does not compare.  Its pure conjecture, extrapolation and done with malicious intent.  Its another thing that well-meaning innocents like you and me bought this fake propaganda hook line and sinker - simply because we absorbed it at impressionable ages.


You mean the sheer number quoted as 60000 temples by Hindutva without no data to back it up? 
 

There is no official data to compare, your mind just imagines that the scale is huge because the Mughals are “bad”. There are similar examples of Hindu kings plundering Buddhist temples, other Hindu temples etc.  Pandyas , Pallavas, Guptas, Cholas have all done this, the Pandyas plundered Buddhist temples in Srilanka.

 

As I said, that is how Conquests used to be. And this is what a democracy is supposed to protect from happening.  If we start destroying mosques, it just means that what we have is not a democracy and the Muslims are basically living in a Hindu Kingdom.

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5 hours ago, sandeep said:

bullshit.  classic aggrandized frog in the well claims extrapolated from personal anecdotes.

 

 

I was gonna say rat in the hole earlier on comparing Kashi/Mathura with some local temple but calling someone marxist is enough of an abuse. 

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5 hours ago, sandeep said:

Bharat was always there as an idea - from the Himalayas to the peninsular tip.   One doesn't become some sort of 'bigoted hindutva' drone by recognizing that obvious fact...


Nope, none of the sangam era Tamil literature acknowledges the Idea of Bharath. Did they know about other parts of the subcontinent? Sure , a landmass not separated by Sea would obviously have trade routes and travellers but the literature always mentions them like other countries and not part of their kingdom. 
 

கொங்கணர் கலிங்கர் கொடுங்கரு நாடர்
பங்களர் கங்கர் பல்வேற் கட்டியர்
வடவா ரியரொடு வண்டமிழ் மயக்கத்துன்
கடமலை வேட்டமென் கட்புலம் பிரியாது

-காட்சிக் காதை, சிலப்பதிகாரம்

 

 Konkani people (Konganar), Kannadigas (Karunadar), Odiyas (Kalingar), Bengalis (Bangalar) and northern India (vada Aryar).

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56 minutes ago, Clarke said:

 

I was gonna say rat in the hole earlier on comparing Kashi/Mathura with some local temple but calling someone marxist is enough of an abuse. 


Already told I am not a Marxist, but if you insist on it, fine. At least Marx was a real person , not an imaginary character like Krishna. 

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5 hours ago, ash said:


Nope, none of the sangam era Tamil literature acknowledges the Idea of Bharath. Did they know about other parts of the subcontinent? Sure , a landmass not separated by Sea would obviously have trade routes and travellers but the literature always mentions them like other countries and not part of their kingdom. 
 

கொங்கணர் கலிங்கர் கொடுங்கரு நாடர்
பங்களர் கங்கர் பல்வேற் கட்டியர்
வடவா ரியரொடு வண்டமிழ் மயக்கத்துன்
கடமலை வேட்டமென் கட்புலம் பிரியாது

-காட்சிக் காதை, சிலப்பதிகாரம்

 

 Konkani people (Konganar), Kannadigas (Karunadar), Odiyas (Kalingar), Bengalis (Bangalar) and northern India (vada Aryar).

what religion did the "sangam era" tamils believe in?

 

 

Sampoorna kumbho na karoti shabdham
ardho ghato ghoshamupaiti noonam
vidvaan kuleeno na karoti garvam
gunairviheenaaha bahu jalpayanti

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22 hours ago, Alam_dar said:

 

 

I am afraid a time will come when US right wing will also use arguments like this to kill or to oppress Indians in US. 

 

Race and nationalism and caste and religions all become at some point dangerous to humanity. 

 

Despite 9/11 and 26/11, I am yet to see Muslims oppressed in any democracy

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55 minutes ago, sandeep said:

what religion did the "sangam era" tamils believe in?

 

 

Sampoorna kumbho na karoti shabdham
ardho ghato ghoshamupaiti noonam
vidvaan kuleeno na karoti garvam
gunairviheenaaha bahu jalpayanti


First and second tamil sangam literature is lost, so not sure about the religions. Archeological evidence in Keezhadi does not have any Religious artificers yet.  From the third tamil sangam - Shaivism and Vaishnavism were major religions.

 

But there was no kinship with the rest if India in any literature, again proving my point that language was the unifying factor 
 

 

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, sandeep said:

 

 

:hysterical:

Take care and if you happen to visit Europe, don’t mistake it as a single country because they all are Christians. In France they speak French , in Germany they speak German and so on. Maybe you can try Akhand Europe there :two_thumbs_up:

Edited by ash
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3 minutes ago, ash said:

if you happen to visit Europe,

I have visited more than a dozen over the years.  I don't suffer from a gaaavthi close-minded mindset.  Some are free to feel 'cocksure' in their ignorance, its all good.

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2 minutes ago, sandeep said:

I have visited more than a dozen over the years.  I don't suffer from a gaaavthi close-minded mindset.  Some are free to feel 'cocksure' in their ignorance, its all good.


More proof that travelling does not really improve intelligence. Maybe time to revisit facts 

 

1) No Indian Empire has ruled the entire subcontinent. India was never under one rule 

2) No proof in Tamil literature about Bharat, India or Akhanda or whatever.

3) No proof whatsoever in any South Indian literature about a United Hindu population across the country.

 

Bring back facts, or keep languishing in Bigotry and Ignorance.

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20 minutes ago, ash said:


More proof that travelling does not really improve intelligence. Maybe time to revisit facts 

 

1) No Indian Empire has ruled the entire subcontinent. India was never under one rule 

2) No proof in Tamil literature about Bharat, India or Akhanda or whatever.

3) No proof whatsoever in any South Indian literature about a United Hindu population across the country.

 

Bring back facts, or keep languishing in Bigotry and Ignorance.

Is Germany a "country"? Is Italy? 

 

You seem to be looking for 'proof' of modern 20th century nation-states in antiquity - and that just provides proof of your ignorant 'agenda'.  You are free to cherrypick and believe what you want.  Don't expect others not to laugh at asinine assertions though.

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Posted (edited)
47 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Is Germany a "country"? Is Italy? 

 

You seem to be looking for 'proof' of modern 20th century nation-states in antiquity - and that just provides proof of your ignorant 'agenda'.  You are free to cherrypick and believe what you want.  Don't expect others not to laugh at asinine assertions though.

Again, no cherry picking and nothing assumed here. Have laid down facts, and I am the only one doing so. You are just explaining your wet dreams. India is also a modern nation state, and without British colonisation, we would have been a bunch of smaller countries. Every historical record before the britishers point to this fact.

 

Ironically, RW has to thank the Britishers cause without the, India as a concept would have been a pipe dream.  I am done with you. Anyone else please.

Edited by ash
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