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Kashmir Valley 16 targeted killings so far this year in Kashmir Valley

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On 6/3/2022 at 8:08 AM, rkt.india said:

Nehru's one mistake of not capturing pok back in that battle when Pakistanis attacked Srinagar is the biggest blunder in Indian history and rewards are still reaped.

Nehru was dependent on Abdullah. Sheikh Abdullah had no control over POK.  His control ceased till the Indian side.

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On Fri Jun 03 2022 at 5:38 PM, rkt.india said:

Nehru's one mistake of not capturing pok back in that battle when Pakistanis attacked Srinagar is the biggest blunder in Indian history and rewards are still reaped.

Kashmir war in 1947-48 was stretched for a loooooooong time...  It's a frontier.  You can't just go & capture it.  Gilgit Scouts along with British Generals captured all those areas much earlier & those areas of Chitral Hunza Skardu were all gone with extremely hostile local population up in arms against Dogra rule.

Pakistani army hadn't fully came into its own still back then...  It would have been a proper bloodbath had that escalated.  Pakhtoons did massacres in Mirpur & Bhimber.  Poonch was totally in their control.  Some legendary battles were held to secure inch by inch there.  Choice was simple turn to Kargil or Gilgit & IA chose Kargil after a year of fighting. 

 

In 1965... Another battle of attrition.  Pakistan operation Gibraltar had failed but they send most of its forces in Kashmir.  Another deadlock on heights.   Indian army in a heroic attempt captures Haji Peer pass (most of the terrorist infiltration happens via that) 

Pakistan in operation Grand slam has plans on Jammu & Akhnoor...  A surprise attack &,  they capture Chammb sector.  IAF dispatched & somehow saves Akhnoor.  Pakistani Ahmadi general replaced by Yahya Khan...  Pakistani's call it blunder. 

After the war Chammb was exchanged for Haji Peer pass. 

 

This is the short story on how tough is it for both IA & PA to fight in Kashmir.  Pakistan still has majority of its forces there. 

Capturing Pakistani Punjab is a lot easier compared to POK for a reason. 

 

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The usual suspects blaming the GOI and BJP when it is clear cut religious extremism problem. Why do rest of Indian Muslims maintain a "strategic" silence whenever such attacks happens?

 

It is clear that locals are involved, and blaming Pakistan everytime will not be the solution. These locals are active all around the country and we need to openly talk about own evil people.

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11 hours ago, someone said:

The usual suspects blaming the GOI and BJP when it is clear cut religious extremism problem. Why do rest of Indian Muslims maintain a "strategic" silence whenever such attacks happens?

 

It is clear that locals are involved, and blaming Pakistan everytime will not be the solution. These locals are active all around the country and we need to openly talk about own evil people.

Absolutely blaming Pakistan is taking the easy way out.   However such attacks were expected after art 370 abrogation.  Kashmir is now as hostile as ever.  Situation wasn't this bad for non Hindus or labour class from other states for last 10 -12 years. 

Sh*** will hit the fan in state if anything happens during Amarnath Yatra. 

Last day there was a temple damage in Bhaderwah which went under immediate curfew. 

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10 hours ago, Lone Wolf said:

Absolutely blaming Pakistan is taking the easy way out.   However such attacks were expected after art 370 abrogation.  Kashmir is now as hostile as ever.  Situation wasn't this bad for non Hindus or labour class from other states for last 10 -12 years. 

Sh*** will hit the fan in state if anything happens during Amarnath Yatra. 

Last day there was a temple damage in Bhaderwah which went under immediate curfew. 

 

So you just have opened your eyes in recent years, and don't understand the previous decades. The status quo was never peace.

 

The reality is simple, our own people are selling info to terrorists. The attacks on army may have diminished there while, the attacks on common man is more apparent. Then, the question should be how different are the Muslims in other parts? The rest of India may not facing the same terrorism threats but what is the future?

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11 minutes ago, someone said:

 

So you just have opened your eyes in recent years, and don't understand the previous decades. The status quo was never peace.

 

The reality is simple, our own people are selling info to terrorists. The attacks on army may have diminished there while, the attacks on common man is more apparent. Then, the question should be how different are the Muslims in other parts? The rest of India may not facing the same terrorism threats but what is the future?

It is believed that Kashmir is security cushion of sorts for India.  Acts as a buffer state against a hostile Pakistan. 

While the state is rich in natural water resources which is prime reason Pakistan badly wanted it.  Nobody wants its enemy country to have control of its lifeline...  IWT notwithstanding. 

 

What u are saying is I have known for years & seen up close in my childhood days.  

Coming up to tge difference between Indian & Kashmiri Muslims is rather simple...  Indian Muslims are mostly poor & Kashmiri Muslims are filthy rich u already said the reason is terrorism & various other factirs.  Their kids boss around in colleges in India,  have money in their pockets..  They also get scholarships & everything.  Minority benefits. 

I can't predict the future but things certainly aren't looking rosy for now. 

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On 6/8/2022 at 12:11 AM, Lone Wolf said:

It is believed that Kashmir is security cushion of sorts for India.  Acts as a buffer state against a hostile Pakistan. 

While the state is rich in natural water resources which is prime reason Pakistan badly wanted it.  Nobody wants its enemy country to have control of its lifeline...  IWT notwithstanding. 

 

What u are saying is I have known for years & seen up close in my childhood days.  

Coming up to tge difference between Indian & Kashmiri Muslims is rather simple...  Indian Muslims are mostly poor & Kashmiri Muslims are filthy rich u already said the reason is terrorism & various other factirs.  Their kids boss around in colleges in India,  have money in their pockets..  They also get scholarships & everything.  Minority benefits. 

I can't predict the future but things certainly aren't looking rosy for now. 

 

A long reply but no straight answer. These issues today and the future issues are inevitable. The leave, convert or die is in our past, today and future. The common man in the rest of India, will not always be secure, and eventually face the same thing. Secular parties, army are only stop-gap measures.

 

And these Kashmiri Muslims are rich, due to KP genocides and loot. Actually, this rich KP is always one reason used to justify the evil actions.

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13 hours ago, someone said:

 

A long reply but no straight answer. These issues today and the future issues are inevitable. The leave, convert or die is in our past, today and future. The common man in the rest of India, will not always be secure, and eventually face the same thing. Secular parties, army are only stop-gap measures.

 

And these Kashmiri Muslims are rich, due to KP genocides and loot. Actually, this rich KP is always one reason used to justify the evil actions.

Ummm...  I am not sure the KP thing is entirely correct in most cases.  While it is true that KP/KH were most of the times owners of Apple orchards in Kashmir.  But these rich KP's knew tide was turning & sold out earlier & in case of emergency at times at cheap rates...  These people moved to abroad or settled in other parts of India.  No way they would live in camps & quarters of Jammu. 

The middle class KP/KH suffered for sure but even they sold out in many cases again sometimes at cheap rates.   My own KP friend told me all that. 

Terrorism & hawala money is also a major factor in Kashmiri Muslims getting richer.  It's prominent in other far flung areas of Doda Kishtwar as well though not at same level.  Rest the HDI index of Kashmir is awesome confirms the same.  PoK remains sub saharan Africa meanwhile. 

 

Leave convert & die is prominent in other parts of India right now.  Hindus fleeeing their houses is a common sight these days.  And that's mostly down to weakness at community level.  

There's no straight answer to this question as J&K will forever remain a military based state with direct links to national security.  Can't be compared with anything in India. 

Peace will likely won't come easily.  India doesn't has the ability to go full Xinjiang on it like China...  Which probably is the most effective method developed by XI Jinping himself. 

 

 

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On 6/6/2022 at 8:29 PM, Lone Wolf said:

Kashmir war in 1947-48 was stretched for a loooooooong time...  It's a frontier.  You can't just go & capture it.  Gilgit Scouts along with British Generals captured all those areas much earlier & those areas of Chitral Hunza Skardu were all gone with extremely hostile local population up in arms against Dogra rule.

Pakistani army hadn't fully came into its own still back then...  It would have been a proper bloodbath had that escalated.  Pakhtoons did massacres in Mirpur & Bhimber.  Poonch was totally in their control.  Some legendary battles were held to secure inch by inch there.  Choice was simple turn to Kargil or Gilgit & IA chose Kargil after a year of fighting. 

 

In 1965... Another battle of attrition.  Pakistan operation Gibraltar had failed but they send most of its forces in Kashmir.  Another deadlock on heights.   Indian army in a heroic attempt captures Haji Peer pass (most of the terrorist infiltration happens via that) 

Pakistan in operation Grand slam has plans on Jammu & Akhnoor...  A surprise attack &,  they capture Chammb sector.  IAF dispatched & somehow saves Akhnoor.  Pakistani Ahmadi general replaced by Yahya Khan...  Pakistani's call it blunder. 

After the war Chammb was exchanged for Haji Peer pass. 

 

This is the short story on how tough is it for both IA & PA to fight in Kashmir.  Pakistan still has majority of its forces there. 

Capturing Pakistani Punjab is a lot easier compared to POK for a reason. 

 

Good post. A lot of people trash Nehru a little unfairly given that they have the benefit of hindsight.

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42 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

Good post. A lot of people trash Nehru a little unfairly given that they have the benefit of hindsight.

The trashing of Nehru is only about delaying the Indian offensive even after Hari Singh had signed the Instrument of accession . He was waiting for the approval of Abdullah just to spite Hari Singh who Nehru considered his personal enemy. Also, after the Indian offensive pushing back Pak tribals out of the valley , he stopped the forces to go further, but went to UN against the advice f the Field Marshall. That drove the ceasefire, LoC and the facking status-quo

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1 hour ago, Nikhil_cric said:

Good post. A lot of people trash Nehru a little unfairly given that they have the benefit of hindsight.

Nehru should be trashed for taking the issue to UN.  Thereby making it a Int'l issue till this day.  However his criticism of being weak willed are bogus.  Patel once floated the idea of exchanging Nizam's Hyderabad with Kashmir to Pak...  Imagine if we had gone through this.   Somebody later talked some sense into Patel. 

There are many complex situations which he had to go through & another mistake was trusting Abdullah. Dogras somewhat didn't had decent enough control in Gilgit as it was still under more of British control as part of Great game WRT to USSR.  And it took a newly Independent India more than a year to fight a bloody mountain war...  And Pak Army wasn't still even involved in its full capacity which is called Blunder in Pak history. 

Indian people mostly have been kept oblivious to what actually transpired in Kashmir.   Same goes about in Pakistan. 

All in all Mountain wars are the toughest to go through. 

Fighting with Tanks & Mechanized infantry &,  air force is much easier in the plains.  Look at Kargil how difficult was it to capture those couple of peaks that weren't even that high.

Compare this to 30+ well fortified ultra high peaks in GB alone & numerous passes & valleys with enemy will entrenched.  Even superpowers will find it almost impossible without going towards missile warfare.  

 

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28 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

Nehru should be trashed for taking the issue to UN.  Thereby making it a Int'l issue till this day.  However his criticism of being weak willed are bogus.  Patel once floated the idea of exchanging Nizam's Hyderabad with Kashmir to Pak...  Imagine if we had gone through this.   Somebody later talked some sense into Patel. 

There are many complex situations which he had to go through & another mistake was trusting Abdullah. Dogras somewhat didn't had decent enough control in Gilgit as it was still under more of British control as part of Great game WRT to USSR.  And it took a newly Independent India more than a year to fight a bloody mountain war...  And Pak Army wasn't still even involved in its full capacity which is called Blunder in Pak history. 

Indian people mostly have been kept oblivious to what actually transpired in Kashmir.   Same goes about in Pakistan. 

All in all Mountain wars are the toughest to go through. 

Fighting with Tanks & Mechanized infantry &,  air force is much easier in the plains.  Look at Kargil how difficult was it to capture those couple of peaks that weren't even that high.

Compare this to 30+ well fortified ultra high peaks in GB alone & numerous passes & valleys with enemy will entrenched.  Even superpowers will find it almost impossible without going towards missile warfare.  

 

 

Fair and balanced. Agree with almost everything you say. 

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43 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

Nehru should be trashed for taking the issue to UN.  Thereby making it a Int'l issue till this day.  However his criticism of being weak willed are bogus.  Patel once floated the idea of exchanging Nizam's Hyderabad with Kashmir to Pak...  Imagine if we had gone through this.   Somebody later talked some sense into Patel. 

There are many complex situations which he had to go through & another mistake was trusting Abdullah. Dogras somewhat didn't had decent enough control in Gilgit as it was still under more of British control as part of Great game WRT to USSR.  And it took a newly Independent India more than a year to fight a bloody mountain war...  And Pak Army wasn't still even involved in its full capacity which is called Blunder in Pak history. 

Indian people mostly have been kept oblivious to what actually transpired in Kashmir.   Same goes about in Pakistan. 

All in all Mountain wars are the toughest to go through. 

Fighting with Tanks & Mechanized infantry &,  air force is much easier in the plains.  Look at Kargil how difficult was it to capture those couple of peaks that weren't even that high.

Compare this to 30+ well fortified ultra high peaks in GB alone & numerous passes & valleys with enemy will entrenched.  Even superpowers will find it almost impossible without going towards missile warfare.  

 

 

C’mon you are reading too much into theWire/thePrint propaganda. Do you believe that the man who was instrumental in unifying of 500+ princely states would give up on Kashmir. It was Nehru who delayed action on the Nizam fearing to hurt his Muslim friends. It was only when Nehru was away , the offensive on Hyderabad was taken. Patel wanted the whole of Kashmir, not the 2/3rds we have today

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5 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

C’mon you are reading too much into theWire/thePrint propaganda. Do you believe that the man who was instrumental in unifying of 500+ princely states would give up on Kashmir. It was Nehru who delayed action on the Nizam fearing to hurt his Muslim friends. It was only when Nehru was away , the offensive on Hyderabad was taken. Patel wanted the whole of Kashmir, not the 2/3rds we have today

Oh come on...  One could not deny straight up facts. 

https://indianexpress.com/article/explained/sardar-vallabhbhai-patels-views-on-kashmir-problem-what-the-record-says-5060077/

Patel was not some other worldly genius.  He was a straight up politician as well.  Like Nehru & Jinnah.  It was always the case who was less stupid among the three . 

Doesn't matter Patel wished he wanted Full Kashmir maybe so did Gandhi or Nehru or every single Indian but  with a hostile population waiting in Frontiers...  IA still to fight one of the toughest mountain wars in history to reclaim that territory with Paxtani army waiting over there.  The conflict that got over in late 1948 would have stretched to 56-58.  Imagine how it would have impacted our economy.  It was not worth it at that moment.  Neither we had that capability. 

Indians could have gone further in 1965 but found out how tough it is to go ahead in Mountains...  Same went for Pakistanis they failed even more miserably & lost Haji peer pass.   

Mughals/Afghans/Turks all had a tough time invading Kashmir coz of its geography. 

That's why it is a frontier & acts a buffer & a wall with our northern neighbours. 

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