Babar Azam, Stats Padder or Real Deal ?

[Majestic]

10 minutes ago, Vijy said:

don't think Sacchu, ABD, Bunting (Ponting) should be that high up, especially Ponting. people attach too much importance to his so-called "great" WC record and esp. the 2003 knock vs Ind.

Sachin- 18k runs, avg 45, strike rate 86 in 90s and 00s, also in World cups, three players of match vs Pakistan and a strong Pakistan team. He has all boxes ticked, just don't have the Vivesque hitting ability.

[Jay]

6 minutes ago, Vijy said:

Sanga wasn't that good. he had 1 purple WC, and improved greatly as ODI bat only in last 2-3 years of his career. jayasuria and pappu de silva were both better SL ODI bats than him.

 

Greenidge was rather tuk-tuk in ODIs interestingly, having seen him bat often. In fact, clive lloyd was arguably WI's second best ODI bat of that period, behind King Vivian, the First of His Name.

 

ABD was a certified choker (best example - 2011 WC), also a certified genius in terms of his skills.

abd choked in 2011 but he did do well in 2015 man. he was unlucky to be on the losing side that day. he score 70 odd. he was clutch unlike kohli beta. 

i agee with lloyd. he was mentally strong and performed when his team needed him. 

i rate greenridge really high. had no real weakness. 

agree with the rest.

[Adamant]

25 minutes ago, Vijy said:

how do you know this? can you guarantee that he will never make a 50-ball 100 vs Oz, for example?

Has he played any knocks like the above? 

[Vijy]

1 minute ago, Jay said:

abd choked in 2011 but he did do well in 2015 man. he was unlucky to be on the losing side that day. he score 70 odd. he was clutch unlike kohli beta. 

i agee with lloyd. he was mentally strong and performed when his team needed him. 

i rate greenridge really high. had no real weakness. 

agree with the rest.

Even in 2015, he batted very well but did not accelerate at the level he did in group stages. heck, duminy outscored him comprehensively (SR wise) if memory serves me correctly. Sachu, Virat, and ABD all have some degree of choking.

 

greenidge was technically pretty sound, but he didn't really do strike rotation, hence his low SR. this is why Lloyd was better IMO. he could biff the ball, but also manoeuvre it around.

[Dery]

Best asian batsman atm

[Vijy]

Just now, Adamant said:

Has he played any knocks like the above? 

I asked why he can't do so in the future? As far as I recall, his ODI career is less than 10 y old. and he seems to be going from strength to strength.

[Jay]

Just now, Dery said:

Best asian batsman atm

only better than current kohli. 

[Vijy]

8 minutes ago, Majestic said:

Sachin- 18k runs, avg 45, strike rate 86 in 90s and 00s, also in World cups, three players of match vs Pakistan and a strong Pakistan team. He has all boxes ticked, just don't have the Vivesque hitting ability.

failed in 2003 and 2011 finals, quite a big blot. he is obviously a top 5 batter, but no. 2 is too high for him.

[Adamant]

28 minutes ago, Vijy said:

as I wrote, you have not seen enough of dean jones, it is transparently obvious from your response.

 

your bunting had an SR of 80 mostly in the 00s and Deano had 72 SR (and higher avg) in the 80s-90s. moreover, this "great in WCs" metric has limited merit. if one just takes SR and WCs, then Gilly > Bunting.

 

like I wrote, you haven't seen much/any ODI cricket prior to 1990s otherwise you'd know that hussy possey is also less than dean jones

The younger generation has deviced a video streaming platform called youtube and a website called espncricinfo. Now you don't need to watch 80s cricket in order to have info about it. 

I know that Japan is technically advanced even though I haven't visited it. 

 

I am not the only one who rates Ponting ahead of Dean Jones, there are polls and analysis on different forums around the world where Ponting has been kept in a different tier to Dean jones. (even on ICF) 

 

So the onus in on you to  explain me why you think Dean was better not vice versa. 

 

I think for someone who started his odi career in 1995, an average of 40 at str rate of 80 is real good. 

 

As for Damien Martyn, he was a class player and could have been as good as Ponting if he had Longevity. That guy was class, not just in ODIs but also in Tests. 

Mark Waugh, Damien Martyn, Crowe were all enormously talented players (better than Ponting) but Ponting defeats them by sheer numbers and legacy. 

[Majestic]

5 minutes ago, Vijy said:

failed in 2003 and 2011 finals, quite a big blot. he is obviously a top 5 batter, but no. 2 is too high for him.

I don't think so because he did performed in semis pretty much everytime in World cups. Even Viv failed in 1983 WC. 

 

18000 runs at 45 average and strike rate 87 in that era with most runs in World Cup at average of 60+ is simply another level to any batsman in the history of ODI cricket. Viv can be given a nod due to his freak Strike rate but Kohli's ODI World Cup average is only 40 around. Ponting is behind in average and strike rate and ABD also has much lesser sample than them.

 

At best, I would say he is top 3 of all-time if you don't like Sachin and like Kohli  otherwise he is a certified top two imo

Edited June 12, 2022 by Majestic

[Adamant]

6 minutes ago, Vijy said:

I asked why he can't do so in the future? As far as I recall, his ODI career is less than 10 y old. and he seems to be going from strength to strength.

He is at the peak of his powers and yet he doesn't have a fifth gear. 

Compare Kohli’s peak (2015 - 2019) to this guy and you"ll realise the difference. 

At his peak Kohli winning us matches after matches in t20 Wcs and scoring against the full strength attacks of almost all teams, not just at home but away. 

Babar is a great accumulator but let's be honest he has never been as dominating and aggressive as Kohli. 

[Jay]

5 minutes ago, Adamant said:

He is at the peak of his powers and yet he doesn't have a fifth gear. 

Compare Kohli’s peak (2015 - 2019) to this guy and you"ll realise the difference. 

At his peak Kohli winning us matches after matches in t20 Wcs and scoring against the full strength attacks of almost all teams, not just at home but away. 

Babar is a great accumulator but let's be honest he has never been as dominating and aggressive as Kohli. 

dont conflate t20 with odi. i know kohli tards dont have the ability to think just like their master but t20 is not odi. just saying, its different formats teekay? 50 over is not 20 overs. 

kohli won us many games in t20 yes.

not in odi KO's post 2013. in his peak he actually sucked more than anuskha's flop movies in important games.

[Adamant]

2 minutes ago, Jay said:

dont conflate t20 with odi. i know kohli tards dont have the ability to think just like their master but t20 is not odi. just saying, its different formats teekay? 50 over is not 20 overs. 

kohli won us many games in t20 yes.

not in odi KO's post 2013. in his peak he actually sucked more than anuskha's flop movies in important games.

Yaar chhod de bhai. 

Let's converse in a decent manner or you can ignore my posts. 

It's getting too vulgar for my liking. 

[Jay]

1 minute ago, Adamant said:

Yaar chhod de bhai. 

Let's converse in a decent manner or you can ignore my posts. 

It's getting too vulgar for my liking. 

i dont despise you the person. you are probably a good person for all i know. i dont like the version of you that adores kohli. i dont know why but you really overrate him man. each to theri own. 

 

lmao just watching our comedy batsmen play now hahahahahhaa. 

[Vijy]

11 minutes ago, Adamant said:

He is at the peak of his powers and yet he doesn't have a fifth gear. 

Compare Kohli’s peak (2015 - 2019) to this guy and you"ll realise the difference. 

At his peak Kohli winning us matches after matches in t20 Wcs and scoring against the full strength attacks of almost all teams, not just at home but away. 

Babar is a great accumulator but let's be honest he has never been as dominating and aggressive as Kohli. 

no doubt kohli is better than babar in T20s. however, the discussion is about ODIs. I don't think babar has yet his peak, which should arrive 1-2 yrs from now

[Vijy]

Just now, Jay said:

i dont despise you the person. you are probably a good person for all i know. i dont like the version of you that adores kohli. i dont know why but you really overrate him man. each to theri own. 

 

lmao just watching our comedy batsmen play now hahahahahhaa. 

ind batting is declining perpetually. this current feckless bunch in the SA series are not even at the level of rayudu at his peak.

[MechEng]

12 hours ago, Gollum said:

Too early when it comes to test cricket, needs 2-3 daddy seasons to come in the reckoning, must also score multiple 100s in foreign conditions like Smith, Root, Kohli. Atm I think he has only 1 SENA 100, Kohli has 11 IIRC. 

 

Ultimately test cricket decides the ATG status of any player, that's why modern day cricketers like Steyn/Kallis/Cook/YK are considered ATGs while WC heroes and white ball greats like Bevan, Klusener, Yuvi, Symonds, Bracken, Brett Lee are forgotten figures in the grand scheme of things. 

All modern white ball stats must be taken with a pinch bucket of salt, doesn't matter whether Pakistani or Indian cricketers. There is a reason why most sane Indian fans don't rate Kohli the ODI batsman higher than Sachin.....despite his impressive numbers. 

 

Do you think Sachin, Lara, Anwar had the luxury of facing Aus/RSA attacks without McWarne, Donald, Pollock back in the day? No, teams never experimented this much in the pre-T20 age because of a multitude of reasons. I can't recognize half the players from Aus, RSA, Eng in modern white ball bilaterals. 

Zaheer Abbas will always be the GOAT ODI batsman for Pak, for the things he achieved in the 70s and early 80s. Only ODI batsman from that era whose comparison with King Viv wouldn't evoke laughter. 

Then you have Miandad, Anwar, Inzi, heck even Yousuf would have beastly numbers in this day and age. 

 

Bradman E Azam got undone by Cummins and Starc at home itself.

[coffee_rules]

Moot point. He can’t play IPL.

[Chakdephatte]

This series shows how big an achievement is it to beat Zimboks bowlers. In fact, Shubman averages 142 against WI+Zim combined. And Thakur, LOL! An out of form Prasidh is running riot as well. 

[Bowlayorkerdamnit]

4 minutes ago, Chakdephatte said:

This series shows how big an achievement is it to beat Zimboks bowlers. In fact, Shubman averages 142 against WI+Zim combined. And Thakur, LOL! An out of form Prasidh is running riot as well. 

Very weird comment bro. Bobar averages like over 52 against the big 5(Aus, Eng, Nz, Ind, Sa). He might be a stat padder to some degree but he easily clears guys like KL, Shubman, Dhawan.