zen Posted June 29, 2022 Share Posted June 29, 2022 (edited) 53 minutes ago, Suhaan said: Indian fans despite hating( faking) Rohit,Kohli,KL drool over the prospect of watching them play Yes, a section that complain are part of such wretched & disillusioned fan clubs (some of these laggards could even be jealous of other rising Indian players) … They would have liked to see the young team lose! However, as the saying goes - “those who dig grave for others, eventually fall in it (and this fall could be hard, cleaning up Ind cricket fan following).” Edited June 29, 2022 by zen Link to comment
sandeep Posted June 29, 2022 Share Posted June 29, 2022 1 hour ago, Suhaan said: So Umran is mediocre,based on what? Your assessment? He bowled 4 overs for 42 ,did you see dimensions of the ground,experience of the bowler,did you? Harshal is mediocre ,no doubt about that Yaar , cricket bauhat change ho gaya hai Batsmen won't back out that easily in t20s ,they will come after bowlers ,it's a batsmen's game afterall You can't just roll them over, rookies like Umran will learn with each game Wish he had someone like Steyn to work with,got Mhambrey instead ghar ki murgi daal baraabar syndrome. Steyn has nowhere near the coaching experience and track record that Mhambrey does. Of course he was a great bowler, but not all great bowlers automatically become great coaches. Mhambrey has a quality track record, no need to denigrate him based on.........nothing really. Link to comment
Suhaan Posted June 29, 2022 Share Posted June 29, 2022 18 minutes ago, sandeep said: ghar ki murgi daal baraabar syndrome. Steyn has nowhere near the coaching experience and track record that Mhambrey does. Of course he was a great bowler, but not all great bowlers automatically become great coaches. Mhambrey has a quality track record, no need to denigrate him based on.........nothing really. Experience is not always necessary, don't overrate it Steyn has ample experience in coaching /mentoring T20 sides,besides this we have seen him do well with Umran There is no reason to say he can't do better than Mhambrey Norman, Vijy, Mosher and 1 other 4 Link to comment
Sean Bradley Posted June 29, 2022 Share Posted June 29, 2022 Actually this problem is not as big as it seems. Whilst we have started gathering a decent pool of batters for white ball cricket, i do not understand the love for someone who keeps running in keeps bowling slow cutters day in and day out. I absolutely cannot understand the selection Harshal Patel, i can name 5 other bowlers who are much better than him who deserves a chance ahead of him. OP has mentioned Umran Malik, i think he's special and should be in the squad. Link to comment
singhvivek141 Posted June 29, 2022 Share Posted June 29, 2022 There isn't enough data to prove that Umran isn't international class....he even struggled in the intial matches of IPL before coming into the zone. That being said, considering the ground dimensions and his inexperience, he bowled better than the senior pros like Bhuvneshwar. Harshal just like Bhuvi is a strictly condition dependent bowler, and the conditions in Ireland won't suit his style of bowling. Had he been bowling in Bangladesh, Srilanka or on certain grounds in India, he would have performed way better. In IPL, the performers usually play a different role that they play in Internationals. Some are able to adapt while some don't, it's upto the selectors and TM to understand their strengths and play in accordance to that. Link to comment
Vickydev Posted June 29, 2022 Share Posted June 29, 2022 As I have said before in terms of T20 we dont really have any standouts as compared to other teams, we need to temper our expectations. We are a middle rung side atm. The good thing is we have a large pool of players to choose from thanks to IPL but then there is not a lot of difference between our first choice and 2nd-3rd string sides. In that sense we do have depth Link to comment
Adamant Posted June 29, 2022 Share Posted June 29, 2022 YeS Yes. I told you all, these IPL superstars are all fake. They will all submit before Shaheen Afridi's talent when we meet pak in asia cup or wt20. Thats what actual talent is, these guys are all fake. rollingstoned and Vijy 2 Link to comment
Norman Posted June 29, 2022 Share Posted June 29, 2022 19 minutes ago, Adamant said: YeS Yes. I told you all, these IPL superstars are all fake. They will all submit before Shaheen Afridi's talent when we meet pak in asia cup or wt20. Thats what actual talent is, these guys are all fake. One would think Shaheen has bowled multiple match winning spells in SENA and won his team big series and tournaments lol. He couldn't even win them a series against West Indies and stuffed his team by getting wrecked by wade. Please stop with your lame ass trolling. rollingstoned and express bowling 2 Link to comment
Stan AF Posted June 29, 2022 Share Posted June 29, 2022 10 hours ago, Austin 3:!6 said: This is one of the drawbacks of IPL...we have too many mediocre players who is playing for India after 1 or 2 good season in IPL. Likes of Umran Malik, Harshal Patel, Venkatesh Iyer etc are simply not international class. I think we should not get carried away by IPL form and pick every tom dick harry for international matches. Indian cricket is slowly under decline but we are not realizing it Finally a good thread on the plague that ruins Indian cricket. It always gets brushed under the carpet by the usual suspects in ICF. OP, there's a good reason why India didn't qualify in not just 1 but 4 off the 6 T20 wc knockouts since the IPL Started. We play a lot of useless less competitive cricket in IPL and in bilaterals. There's not enough knockout matches to get players worth that grit in the Indian setup. That being said I don't expect India to qualify in Australia this year. Glad to be proven wrong. Adamant 1 Link to comment
Stan AF Posted June 29, 2022 Share Posted June 29, 2022 Disaster written all over the campaign in Australia if we take the no form kohli, meek rahul and slow to start rohit. Can't have all three in the line up. Either KL should bat in the middle order or kohli should be dropped for good. Link to comment
Vijy Posted June 29, 2022 Share Posted June 29, 2022 16 minutes ago, Stan AF said: Disaster written all over the campaign in Australia if we take the no form kohli, meek rahul and slow to start rohit. Can't have all three in the line up. Either KL should bat in the middle order or kohli should be dropped for good. don't worry, we will find some way of also accommodating rahane and dhawan in the top 5. dhawan rohit kohli rahane KL express bowling 1 Link to comment
express bowling Posted June 29, 2022 Share Posted June 29, 2022 3 hours ago, Adamant said: They will all submit before Shaheen Afridi's talent when we meet pak in asia cup or wt20. Thats what actual talent is, these guys are all fake. The "actual talent", Shaheen, averages 38.42 with a SR of 70 after playing 10 tests in SENAI. ( the current big teams ) Does he deserve to be benchmarked with these stats ? rollingstoned, Vijy, Norman and 1 other 4 Link to comment
Adamant Posted June 29, 2022 Share Posted June 29, 2022 Just now, express bowling said: The "actual talent", Shaheen, averages 38.42 with a SR of 70 after playing 10 tests in SENAI. ( the current big teams ) Does he deserve to be benchmarked with these stats ? He is doing great in LOIs. In test matches he hasn't performed as well as he should against big teams but do consider the fact that he literally has zero support, also the last serious vs Aus on uber flatties have had a bad effect on his stats. Vijy 1 Link to comment
express bowling Posted June 29, 2022 Share Posted June 29, 2022 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Adamant said: He is doing great in LOIs. In test matches he hasn't performed as well as he should against big teams but do consider the fact that he literally has zero support, also the last serious vs Aus on uber flatties have had a bad effect on his stats. Even in ODI, Shaheen averages 28.5 in SENAI with an ER of 6. That's not that impressive. And he has decent support from Hassan Ali in tests. Fact is, he is yet to realize his potential in either tests or ODIs. Let's see whether he realizes his potential. And before that it is better not to use him as benchmark. Edited June 29, 2022 by express bowling sandeep, Vijy and rollingstoned 3 Link to comment
Vijy Posted June 29, 2022 Share Posted June 29, 2022 (edited) 23 minutes ago, express bowling said: Even in ODI, Shaheen averages 28.5 in SENAI with an ER of 6. That's not that impressive. And he has decent support from Hassan Ali in tests. Fact is, he is yet to realize his potential in either tests or ODIs. Let's see whether he realizes his potential. And before that it is better not to use him as benchmark. if shaheen is the benchmark in tests, I'd like to know what bumrah, cummins, and rabada are. even in LOIs, he is far from being the benchmark. even in Pak, shinwari is better than him in LOIs. baffling how/why they have not selected him. fizz's record against SENAI is not so diff than shaheen. former has 31.4 avg at 5.6 ER and you have listed the latter (28.5 and 6 ER). and fizz has far less support than shaheen has Edited June 29, 2022 by Vijy express bowling 1 Link to comment
Vijy Posted June 29, 2022 Share Posted June 29, 2022 10 hours ago, sandeep said: I disagree. The problem is not player 'quality'. Its the selection logic, criteria, and roles assigned. They refuse to incentivize the right batting tactics - they gave Ruturaj Gaikwad 6 games in a row ahead of guys like Shaw and Samson -why? Because his aggregate runs got him that stupid color IPL cap whatever it is. This has been a problem for Indian whiteball cricket ever since the ODI rules were changed, and even ODI cricket now rewards teams that bat deep, and bat selflessly at the top. Indian XI isn't built for that kind of cricket. They keep stacking the team with 'anchors' and expect them to 'adapt'. That's now how T20 works, you are good at what you repeatedly execute and practice. any day, a stat padder in T20s who scores at 125-130 SR will be prioritized over a selfless (even if limited) batter like tripathi who can go at 140+ SR. express bowling 1 Link to comment
the don Posted June 29, 2022 Share Posted June 29, 2022 23 minutes ago, express bowling said: Even in ODI, Shaheen averages 28.5 in SENAI with an ER of 6. That's not that impressive. And he has decent support from Hassan Ali in tests. Fact is, he is yet to realize his potential in either tests or ODIs. Let's see whether he realizes his potential. And before that it is better not to use him as benchmark. As opposed to Bumrah who averages close to or over 50 in white ball vs the better teams? Shaheen is the most lethal white ball strike force in the world atm and there is no point denying it. No one in Asia esp comes close atm. sandeep 1 Link to comment
express bowling Posted June 29, 2022 Share Posted June 29, 2022 (edited) 39 minutes ago, the don said: As opposed to Bumrah who averages close to or over 50 in white ball vs the better teams? Shaheen is the most lethal white ball strike force in the world atm and there is no point denying it. No one in Asia esp comes close atm. Bumrah has been a major disappointment in white ball cricket in the last 2 years. I am deeply dissatisfied by his lack of wicket taking tendency in white ball cricket in this period. He does even try getting LOI wickets these days. But Bumrah's failure does not make Shaheen good in ODIs.. There is not a single pacer nowadays who really impresses me as an ODI bowler. All are either mediocre or disinterested in this format. Edited June 29, 2022 by express bowling Norman and Vijy 2 Link to comment
Vijy Posted June 29, 2022 Share Posted June 29, 2022 (edited) 5 minutes ago, express bowling said: Bumrah has been a major disappointment in white ball cricket in the last 2 years. I am deeply disappointed by his lack of wicket taking tendency in white ball cricket in this period. But Bumrah's failure does not make Shaheen good in ODIs.. There is not a single pacer nowadays who really impresses me as a ODI bowler. All are either mediocre or disinterested in this format. I quite agree with you. Just look at this result: https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=2;filter=advanced;opposition=1;opposition=2;opposition=3;opposition=5;opposition=6;opposition=7;orderby=wickets;spanmin1=01+jan+2019;spanval1=span;team=1;team=2;team=25;team=3;team=4;team=40;team=5;team=6;team=7;team=8;template=results;type=bowling Test teams against arguably top 6 ODI teams since 2019. The only good pace bowler has been woakes and even he plays only in certain conditions. if I exclude him, the next best IMO is boult, who is better than shaheen across all formats when playing tougher teams. joseph has started well, as have richardson (jhye) and rauf - small sample sizes though. ironically, the much hated (for a good reason) boobie has comfortably outperformed shaheen in avg and ER (and marginally in SR too). Edited June 29, 2022 by Vijy express bowling 1 Link to comment
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