Its high time we distinguish between IPL and International players

[putrevus]

23 minutes ago, Norman said:

 

 

Yes he was part of the team but he never failed as embarrassingly as the top3 usually does. 

 

2016 - WT20 bowled clutch over against Bangladesh when we were on the brink of humiliation. 

 

2017 CT - Played a lone hand in the final

 

2019 SF - put together some sort of a stand with Pant to stop the slide. 

 

You're clearly lying if you think you can put Pandya in the same bracket as the top 3 when it comes to failing spectacularly under pressure. 

So 2016 WT20  Kohli was the reason why India won against Australia and scored 90  semi finals ? .2014 Kohli dragged  half assed Indian team all way to finals only to be let down by Yuvraj and his captain and was MOS for that world t20.

 

2003 finals Sehwag too scored some runs when match was already gone. Somebody had to some score runs that's what Sehwag did 2003 and Pandya did in 2017 don't tell me as if it was some great knock.

 

You must be kidding me if you think Pandya is a better pressure player than top three. They carried the whole Indian team to semi finals atleast of many major tournaments. We all saw  what happens once they flopped in last t20 they won't even reach knockouts.

 

So how exactly is Pandya a better clutch player than top three.That is why I said Pandya is a servicable player in white ball cricket. 

Edited June 29, 2022 by putrevus

[sandeep]

1 hour ago, putrevus said:

I am not fixated on him nor I have purged my memory any of his acheivements.  He is not a proven boundary hitter by any means, but I agree he is the one of the best we got so let us leave him aside. . Pandya is neither the problem nor is the solution.Don't get  sidetracked from your main point.

 

 

 

FYI Jadeja also played a vital in the only match he played in that same white ball win you are talking about before being concussed.Without that innings India was not winning that series either.

Hardik Pandya is among the best in the world in terms of boundary hitting, no amount of bullshit can obfuscate that simple fact.  And he has that rare skill of being able to deliver boundaries, early in his innings.  I'm not going to waste any more time beating this dead horse with you - I dont' think Pandya is something spectacular - he's a good player with his own set of pros and cons.  But you are overly invested in writing him off.  Fine, I DGAF. 

 

 

[Ankit_sharma03]

2 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

Precisely why DK is still backed. He made debut when Rahul Dravid was at his peak in Tests. Now Rahul Dravid is his coach. That underlines how woeful our new generation hitters are. 

DK is backed coz he is good , if ur pointing out that we went back to an oldie thats is such a poor way to look at it..............we went to him coz he was good. Wagner plays at age 36 doesnt mean NZ dont have good bowlers...........he is good

DK brings a completely opposite skill to pandya , Its not him vs Pandya both work better with each other as they tackle each others weakness 

About next genration hitter well u need the most amount of patience first coz in that job ull hardly succedd 3 outt of 10 games and then finising n death bowling needs experience to give u understanding of match situation. 

 

Batting in lower middle order is hardest in LOI specially t20 and u need a lot of patience to develop such players Like our fast bowling culture got better this will also in few years and names have started cropping up 

[Vijy]

7 hours ago, sandeep said:

I have been calling this out on ICF since 2015.  Its pathetic that the world's richest cricket team is so backwards in its tactics.  That's what led me to do something I normally never do - speculate about Kohli's intentions.  I mean, its not like he doesn't 'get' how cricket works.  But keeping the status quo was of immense personal benefit to him.  It led him to maximize the profitability and tenure of Kohli inc - the marketing brand.  "best ODI batsman", "most number of ODI centuries" (howsoever meaningless) etc had direct fiduciary benefits for him.  why should he give that up in pursuit of team glory, when as we saw in 2019 ODI WC - there were zero consequences for him or team mgmt for failing to even make the final in what was an effectively 4 horse race.  

yes to all of the above. not many, but a handful of posters (including yourself), have broached this issue since the mid-2010s.

[Suhaan]

9 hours ago, sandeep said:

On one hand you moan about lack of big hitters, and on the other, you are fixated on running down the one guy we have in the squad who' s a proven boundary hitter from the first ball he comes to the crease, has demonstrated to bat 'proper' and construct innings on top of that, and can bowl useful overs.   

 

 

Looks like you succesfully purged the memory of Indian white ball wins in Australia against Australia....

According to him IPL is not supposed to supply India its T20 players,

We have to poach or handover citizenship to some of the mercenaries, that's what his posts implies or maybe he meant it unintentionally

don't engage with him

 

[Adamant]

12 hours ago, sandeep said:

 

Did you even watch the game or his batting?  He batted decent.  You clearly have it 'in' for him.  I mean if you find fault with his batting yesterday, your tinted glasses really need some cleaning.

13(9) Against Ireland 

Tinted glasses, man you surely are a Pandya bhakt, atleast choose your idol properly, this guy is a freakin loser, who has no fame and recognition outside of India. 

[vvvslaxman]

9 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

DK is backed coz he is good , if ur pointing out that we went back to an oldie thats is such a poor way to look at it..............we went to him coz he was good. Wagner plays at age 36 doesnt mean NZ dont have good bowlers...........he is good

DK brings a completely opposite skill to pandya , Its not him vs Pandya both work better with each other as they tackle each others weakness 

About next genration hitter well u need the most amount of patience first coz in that job ull hardly succedd 3 outt of 10 games and then finising n death bowling needs experience to give u understanding of match situation. 

 

Batting in lower middle order is hardest in LOI specially t20 and u need a lot of patience to develop such players Like our fast bowling culture got better this will also in few years and names have started cropping up 

 

DK is good. But if there were anyone half decent or remotely close to DK available he would have been preferred.  Nothing to slight DK. If someone who is as good as DK is available you think DK would be backed ahead of him? Due to his age he would have been sidelined.  Even now due to one-dimensional nature of our team his place is not 100% certain in playing XI. You cannot take years to evolve in this format. Other countries identify such players and pick them ahead of "established" "reputed" players. We don't have anyone who is capable of doing t hat role. Infact all Asian countries belong to this category. SL may have some hitters. Overall Asian teams suck at power hitting.  Even Irish batsmen look just as good. 

[Ankit_sharma03]

51 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

DK is good. But if there were anyone half decent or remotely close to DK available he would have been preferred.  Nothing to slight DK. If someone who is as good as DK is available you think DK would be backed ahead of him? Due to his age he would have been sidelined.  Even now due to one-dimensional nature of our team his place is not 100% certain in playing XI. You cannot take years to evolve in this format. Other countries identify such players and pick them ahead of "established" "reputed" players. We don't have anyone who is capable of doing t hat role. Infact all Asian countries belong to this category. SL may have some hitters. Overall Asian teams suck at power hitting.  Even Irish batsmen look just as good. 

 

Coz DK is a range hitter not power...............range develops over a period of time and with experience . Getting better at that skill is far tougher then power hitter

We have power hitters but range only SKY 

 

The power hitting ur saying even DK isnt a power hitter he is a range hitter -

 

• pant, kishen, samad, pandya , dube , suyyash they are power hitters 
• SKY and DK are range hitter. Kedhar jadhav was one and Sarfraz khan another but their power game is not as good as SKY or DK.,,,,,,,,,,,,,,both their power game isnt at pandya level but good enough to cover .  
• Pant, KL are only 2 power + range hitters . In foreign countaries also Maxwell, butler are among the few ones or in past ABDV . Even maxi n butler range hitting got better only with experience 

 

The reason DK is in team coz he posses a very different skill , he cant be compared to power hitter like pandya, kishen, samad, dube. Even if say someone else was at his best and DK provided different skill DK shud have been gone ahead with coz its a different skill and u need players with different skill. Thats what was seen in recent pandya-karthik partnership as both needed a completely different plan. Had we had another power hitter with pandya opposition team wud have found iteasier as only they need to operate at one plan. 

 

Team construction takes all this into account not crappy reasons like Age.  And its not that DK doesnt have weakness, leg spin gets him stuck big time and thats where guys like pandya n pant will save him like he ll bail them out with their weakness. Thats how team are constructed - roles , covering bases , matchups 

Edited June 30, 2022 by Ankit_sharma03

[deepdynamo]

No matter what combination they chose in T20, I just want Sky, Pandya, DK at 5,6,7

 

This will give us all immense confidence that they can turn around difficult matches.

[vvvslaxman]

5 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

 

Coz DK is a range hitter not power...............range develops over a period of time and with experience . Getting better at that skill is far tougher then power hitter

We have power hitters but range only SKY 

 

The power hitting ur saying even DK isnt a power hitter he is a range hitter -

 

• pant, kishen, samad, pandya , dube , suyyash they are power hitters 
• SKY and DK are range hitter. Kedhar jadhav was one and Sarfraz khan another but their power game is not as good as SKY or DK.,,,,,,,,,,,,,,both their power game isnt at pandya level but good enough to cover .  
• Pant, KL are only 2 power + range hitters . In foreign countaries also Maxwell, butler are among the few ones or in past ABDV . Even maxi n butler range hitting got better only with experience 

 

The reason DK is in team coz he posses a very different skill , he cant be compared to power hitter like pandya, kishen, samad, dube. Even if say someone else was at his best and DK provided different skill DK shud have been gone ahead with coz its a different skill and u need players with different skill. Thats what was seen in recent pandya-karthik partnership as both needed a completely different plan. Had we had another power hitter with pandya opposition team wud have found iteasier as only they need to operate at one plan. 

 

Team construction takes all this into account not crappy reasons like Age.  And its not that DK doesnt have weakness, leg spin gets him stuck big time and thats where guys like pandya n pant will save him like he ll bail them out with their weakness. Thats how team are constructed - roles , covering bases , matchups 

 

You can call it whatever name you want. Range hitting, power hitting. DK is there only because he is the One and Only one who is capable of scoring runs from first ball. Moment he loses the ability his place will be under risk. Because taking a few balls and scoring. That is something many can do.  After Raina only DK has that ability of playing shots without sighters. That is the only reason he is backed ahead of many young players. It is a shame we couldn't find more of such players. Pandya when he was new could strike from ball one. Over a period he regressed. He gets tied down by certain lengths. KL Rahul was another guy who could do that, but developed a poor attitude over the years. Pant just has the attitude. Nothing else. Doesn't have the game to flourish in this format.  Apart from DK none of these guys could exhibit that finishing skill. There was this guy Jitesh from PKXI could finish some games. What if DK gets out first ball like he did in the last ball? Who will do his role?

[Ankit_sharma03]

8 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

You can call it whatever name you want. Range hitting, power hitting. DK is there only because he is the One and Only one who is capable of scoring runs from first ball. Moment he loses the ability his place will be under risk. Because taking a few balls and scoring. That is something many can do.  After Raina only DK has that ability of playing shots without sighters. That is the only reason he is backed ahead of many young players. It is a shame we couldn't find more of such players. Pandya when he was new could strike from ball one. Over a period he regressed. He gets tied down by certain lengths. KL Rahul was another guy who could do that, but developed a poor attitude over the years. Pant just has the attitude. Nothing else. Doesn't have the game to flourish in this format.  Apart from DK none of these guys could exhibit that finishing skill. There was this guy Jitesh from PKXI could finish some games. What if DK gets out first ball like he did in the last ball? Who will do his role?

its not name its skill , DK is backed becoz he brings in a new dimension which others dont . Had he n Uthappa played around Dhoni, yusuf who were a power hitter that wud have helped dhoni also in t20is 

Pandya hasnt regressed , over a period of teams work out ur weak areas and that where players evolve . 

[sandeep]

8 hours ago, Adamant said:

13(9) Against Ireland 

Tinted glasses, man you surely are a Pandya bhakt, atleast choose your idol properly, this guy is a freakin loser, who has no fame and recognition outside of India. 

Some folks judge batting quality by scorecard, others do by looking at the actual batting.  

[zen]

5 hours ago, sandeep said:

Some folks judge batting quality by scorecard, others do by looking at the actual batting.  

 

These guys don't understand such things. They understand statements such as "if Kohli (or Rohit or whoever) had batted in the same situation he could have got 0 off 1 like other 3 batsmen did" ... Those 13 runs ensured India won the game by 4 runs as Ind lost 5 wkts from 206 to 224. Also he did not get the strike in the last few balls (and played less than 10 balls). 

Edited June 30, 2022 by zen

[putrevus]

There was nothing in Pandya's batting to suggest that he was going to be great in whiteball cricket.It is still the same.He gives away more runs in his bowling than he scores most of the time.The moment Test team found Thakur it became better than it was ever when Pandya was playing.Pandya was always a add on player and still remains a addon player.

 

Some folks make him into a great dynamic player  who is a game changer.Sadly even after so many years he still is bits and pieces player.

Edited July 3, 2022 by putrevus

[putrevus]

This tour will also show true colors of Ishan kishan and another pretender  Samson.Neither of them have any long term international ability.

[zen]

Eng T20 series displayed the ongong uselessness of Rohit-Kohli-S Iyer, "the useless bunch" 

Edited July 10, 2022 by zen