Umran needs to be played in all games!

[Frustrated]

13 minutes ago, Jay said:

Is he 5'5? Thought he was 5'8 or 5"9. 

5"8 is still a very low height.  I don't remember any pace bowlers in Indian history causing trouble with this height.  Shardul is 5"8. Hence sucks.   Bumrah and Shami both are 5"10.

[Ankit_sharma03]

On 7/10/2022 at 8:24 AM, Adamant said:

Wasn't Naseem Shah's progress hindered due to playing him in Aus, Eng and Nz without giving him a proper run in domestics? 

Thats what I am saying, his performance in Pak vs Aus was decent, and that came after a good long break. 

 

I know Naseem has a better skillset than Umran (Icfers will not like this) but it's true, his run up and seam position is better too but he was decimated in international cricket when he started. 

 

Umran is faster than him though, both are very short. 

 

Different case

 

Naseem skillsets are more suited for Longer formats which also was the problem- In longer formats u need consistency and stamina. He had lil consistency and poor stamina . Guys like Shami , jaddu, Prasidh are good for longer format coz they have consistency with their line n length. But that creates a problem for them in t20 coz that becomes predictability. Naseem now has improved coz he played a lot of cricket so stamina and consistency has improved. 

Umran skillsets as of now just suits t20 but t20 also needs variation which doesn't mean just slower ball but length too . He lacks variation part so he is inconsistent in t20 but he doesnt have the challenge of Longer formats. 

Playing in domestic will help his longer format cricket and gain experience thats it. He can gain same experience at higher quality at international level which is what happened with Pandya. For t20 that shud be enough 

 

 

 

Edited July 11, 2022 by Ankit_sharma03

[Jay]

47 minutes ago, Frustrated said:

5"8 is still a very low height.  I don't remember any pace bowlers in Indian history causing trouble with this height.  Shardul is 5"8. Hence sucks.   Bumrah and Shami both are 5"10.

Yea that's true. Yes 5'8 is still short for fast bowling. 

Steyn is 5'10

Marshall 5'9 5'10

Bumrah 5'10

 

That 2 inched makes a huge difference for some reason.  

 

[nevada]

On 7/10/2022 at 7:45 PM, zen said:

Pacey and improving steadily, brings loads of x-factor (and variety) as the 3rd pacer ... Ind has to learn to leverage on his pace (as such pace bowlers are rare in Indian cricket) rather than wait for him to develop even more as a bowler as by that time he may lose some of his pace ... At different stages of his career, a player would have different strengths ... Right now for Umran, it is pace. Later on, it could be something else ... Good teams know how to utilize a player's current strengths (and not frame a player permanently based on his previous strengths or weaknesses) and keep upcoming bowlers in good rhythm ... Needs to be played in all games to prep him for the upcoming world cup 

 

 

 

 

Yup strike the iron while it is hot. Saini was picked in his late 20s and his pace went down real fast not long after his debut.  Siraj also was made to sit on the bench for years and picked when his pace had reduced a bit. Now he seems to be declining as well. 

[Vijy]

3 minutes ago, nevada said:

Yup strike the iron while it is hot. Saini was picked in his late 20s and his pace went down real fast not long after his debut.  Siraj also was made to sit on the bench for years and picked when his pace had reduced a bit. Now he seems to be declining as well. 

I suspect siraj may be older than his reported age (like shambi), which may partly explain his decline.

[The Realist]

2 hours ago, Vijy said:

I suspect siraj may be older than his reported age (like shambi), which may partly explain his decline.

 

He deffo looks older than 28. Probably same age as Kohli.

[Axl100mph]

14 hours ago, Jay said:

Naseem is built like a twig though.

Nope bro...Naseem is naturally quite muscular. You probably saw him after covid when he shed weight and lost pace as a result. But he is a typical mesomorph.

It is Dhani who is short on muscle. Naseem on the oz tour 2020 and that year's PSL was really beefed up for his age. Since then he hasn't gained the same mass. Probably someone has advised him against it. 

[Axl100mph]

6 hours ago, Vijy said:

I suspect siraj may be older than his reported age (like shambi), which may partly explain his decline.

Bowlers dont decline suddenly...

Bad form and loss of rhythm are a huge factor, especially for those who are not astute students of their trade and dont practice their skills through procesd based mechanisms and drills.

The english, ozzies n saffers r more tuned with their actions and with what works best for them. Just check the drills mark wood goes through before every game to make sure his technique is in order.  Mitch johnson and lee would do the same. 

The guys in the subcontinent are not as analytical, and Siraj also seems to be lacking in this front, but by no means has he declined physically. 

[zen]

 

Based on this, below are the format specific bowlers in the short term per BCCI or its source (I guess till the T20 WC in Oct-Nov):

 

 India Pace attack by formats

 

• Test: Jasprit Bumrah, Mohammed Shami, Mohammed Siraj, Shardul Thakur
• ODIs: Jasprit Bumrah, Mohammed Shami, Mohammed Siraj, Bhuvneshwar Kumar, Shardul Thakur, Deepak Chahar, Arshdeep Singh, Navdeep Saini
• T20Is: Jasprit Bumrah, Bhuvneshwar Kumar, Harshal Patel, Umran Malik, Avesh Khan, Deepak Chahar, T Natarajan

 

If the above is accurate, a need to develop Umran as the 3rd pacer (for pace, x factor, & variety) by giving him adequate opportunities 

 

 

PS Prasidh appears to be the mix for Tests & ODIs ... Avesh is in ODIs too (probably preferred over Saini) ...  BCCI would attempt to keep the bowlers fresh for T20s so most of those playing in ODIs are likely to be backups, and therefore, less likely to make it to the T20 WC squad

 

PPS Since Nattu is injured/recovering or not at his best, Arshdeep was probably included in recent T20s ... Moshin needs to be added to the T20s list sooner than later 

Edited July 12, 2022 by zen

[Axl100mph]

I have not seen him a lot but the little that I have, Umran Malik is very raw bowler with a lot of physical ability to bowl quick. He has the natural fast twitch fibres and is a powerathlete. In the IPL he was in considerably better rhythm and was completing his action much better. In this series he isnt driving his front arm for long enough and is opening a lot quicker. As many would know, the more you delay your bowling arm, the quicker you ball.

This is the possible reason for the drop in pace in my opinion. 

 

However,  what is concerning for most fast bowling fans is that he is not showcasing the instinctive smarts of bowling so far. Even in the IPL when he would be carted around at times he would seem lost. 

Bowlers who are quick learners make an impact somehow even when not in rhythm.  So far it seems umran is one of those with a lot of ability but one who needs a hammer to nail some ideas into his skull. 

[Jay]

2 hours ago, Axl100mph said:

Nope bro...Naseem is naturally quite muscular. You probably saw him after covid when he shed weight and lost pace as a result. But he is a typical mesomorph.

It is Dhani who is short on muscle. Naseem on the oz tour 2020 and that year's PSL was really beefed up for his age. Since then he hasn't gained the same mass. Probably someone has advised him against it. 

He is not a mesomorph. Definitely not. Someone who is well built from Pakistan? Wahab riaz. He is a tank. 

Love watching that guy bowl. Yes he isn't that good but I enjoyed watching him bowl hostile bowls when he is at his best. 

Ehsan is well built too. 

From current lot? Damn many are so skinny. 

Rauf is a tank. Umesh yadav type build. 

 

[Jay]

2 hours ago, Axl100mph said:

Bowlers dont decline suddenly...

Bad form and loss of rhythm are a huge factor, especially for those who are not astute students of their trade and dont practice their skills through procesd based mechanisms and drills.

The english, ozzies n saffers r more tuned with their actions and with what works best for them. Just check the drills mark wood goes through before every game to make sure his technique is in order.  Mitch johnson and lee would do the same. 

The guys in the subcontinent are not as analytical, and Siraj also seems to be lacking in this front, but by no means has he declined physically. 

Hope flexor injury. Past 3 games he is noweher3 near the bowler he was prior to injury. But he can come back. Flexor injury can be fixed.

[Mesky99]

18 hours ago, Jay said:

Is he 5'5? Thought he was 5'8 or 5"9. 

He's around '5"9

 

On 7/10/2022 at 4:33 PM, the don said:

Naseems first over in international cricket iin Australia itself was quicker than anything umran has bowled in international cricket so far. Remember, Naseem is yet to play a white ball game for Pakistan. Naseem is the most improved pacer in Pak right now with his lines and movement, was effortlessly clocking around 148kph in national t20.  In terns of skills he is just behind Shaheen atm.

Naseem was barely hitting 140kph when we last saw him in England and was treated like cannon fodder in NZ, nice to see you come out from temporary hiding, umran was no where near his best yesterday and once back in rhythm he will be hitting 150kph with ease, even Hassan Ali hits 140kph plus in those Pakistani speed meters so not shocking seeing naseem hit those speeds. 

[the don]

5 hours ago, Mesky99 said:

He's around '5"9

 

Naseem was barely hitting 140kph when we last saw him in England and was treated like cannon fodder in NZ, nice to see you come out from temporary hiding, umran was no where near his best yesterday and once back in rhythm he will be hitting 150kph with ease, even Hassan Ali hits 140kph plus in those Pakistani speed meters so not shocking seeing naseem hit those speeds. 

Lol he was the fastest in eng, easily hitting 145 kph , the english commies even asked Archer why he had slowed down and wasnt hitting the same speeds as Naaeem.

 

in the last 4 years in terms of average speed Naseem is the top 4 fastest pacers in test cricket according to cricviz. The boy is yet to play white ball cricket.

umran has bowled at Chris Jordans pace in international cricket.That too in t20 cricket. When i saw him in the IPL i knew he d be more of a 87-88 mph bowler on proper international speedguns.

 

 

 

[Jay]

35 minutes ago, the don said:

Lol he was the fastest in eng, easily hitting 145 kph , the english commies even asked Archer why he had slowed down and wasnt hitting the same speeds as Naaeem.

 

in the last 4 years in terms of average speed Naseem is the top 4 fastest pacers in test cricket according to cricviz. The boy is yet to play white ball cricket.

umran has bowled at Chris Jordans pace in international cricket.That too in t20 cricket. When i saw him in the IPL i knew he d be more of a 87-88 mph bowler on proper international speedguns.

 

 

 

Yes naseem is the best 19 year old in the world. 

[the don]

Umran Malik has the action for reverse swing. If he can learn that art, he can make a good career.

[Mesky99]

1 hour ago, the don said:

Lol he was the fastest in eng, easily hitting 145 kph , the english commies even asked Archer why he had slowed down and wasnt hitting the same speeds as Naaeem.

 

in the last 4 years in terms of average speed Naseem is the top 4 fastest pacers in test cricket according to cricviz. The boy is yet to play white ball cricket.

umran has bowled at Chris Jordans pace in international cricket.That too in t20 cricket. When i saw him in the IPL i knew he d be more of a 87-88 mph bowler on proper international speedguns.

 

 

 

"On proper interantional speed guns' rabada, shami, Boult were all getting clocked at around there normal speeds, why would the speed guns clock Malik differently? The speed guns used in ipl is the same as the one used in Indian home matches by star sports, so no ipl guns are anything but faulty, naseem'a average speed in the rest series was around 87mph which is the same as shami, am sure you have watched umran in ipl clearly he was nowhere near his best rhythm in the t20.

[Mesky99]

1 hour ago, Jay said:

Yes naseem is the best 19 year old in the world. 

Best 22 year old, that's his real age, gets smoked everywhere, type of a guy who would regularly give 100 runs in 25 overs in each innings.

 

[Jay]

20 minutes ago, Mesky99 said:

Best 22 year old, that's his real age, gets smoked everywhere, type of a guy who would regularly give 100 runs in 25 overs in each innings.

 

Still the best 22 year old Pakistani in the world. 

[Jay]

58 minutes ago, the don said:

Umran Malik has the action for reverse swing. If he can learn that art, he can make a good career.

No. Naseem is better for reverse.