ODI squad for Zimbabwe

[Chakdephatte]

11 hours ago, Suhaan said:

How would he develop?Bowlers playing in A tours,domestics doesn't always help infact lesser sides like Zim,WI also serve the same purpose.

 

1 hour ago, singhvivek141 said:

We are not doing any A tours, all these tours of WI and Zim are the best way for Umran to learn, he may struggle, he may fail, or he may perform....but either way he will add a much needed pace dimension in our bowling attack.

 

7 hours ago, Lone Wolf said:

Indeed these are developmental tours...  Someone like Umran would have used this asA tour game.  Zim recently beat BD & even Pak so they are not at all that worse in fact better among all associate sides. 

 

Did we send our A squad there? No, then what's the fuss? India have too many projects pending. Project Prasidh, Project Gill, Project Siraj. Cannot dump them for adjusting someone. Cannot try everybody at once.

Edited July 31, 2022 by Chakdephatte

[Lord]

One guy I'm sad about is Venky Iyer. Did good enough in the chances he got,now doesnt make even the team to Zim.

 

Shaw is also good enough for this team atleast,but there we have many options.

[Majestic]

5 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

 

Both their situation was and wud be different

• Naseem cud move the ball but test matches are a different beast, he lacked consistency with line , length or fitness . Noway he was going to find success in a test with those issues 
• Umran cant move the ball but anyways old white ball doesn't move much, u need different tools for t20 as u need variation in line n length rather then consistency . Umran also lacks variation but his short ball attack ploy will work in australia . Umran will win u some games out rightly and loose u some as well . Do Dahari Talwar 

I think umran has enough to make tools to do well in Aus in t20 format but is he fitting in the combination with so many options avl for middle phase that is the end question

 

Naseem can reverse the ball. His only skill is reverse swing with old bowl.

 

Umran is not fit for any formats tbh if we are talking about selection in T20 squad. His short ball ploy would work mostly on associate teams as against good teams, he will give hit-me deliveries more than successfully being an enforcer in middle overs.

 

I would rather have liked if Mohsin was given games vs Zimbabwe because he has lot more skills maintaining good pace compared to Umran who don't have those skills.

 

I do agree with your some of the other posts you have mentioned where you would want to go with Bhuvi, Bumrah and Harshal/Arshdeep for the third pacer and maybe if Deepak Chahar is fit and back to rythm then another option in place of Bhuvi or backup in the squad.

Edited July 31, 2022 by Majestic

[Lord]

Umran got carted around by even Irish.

 

He has potential but clearly not ready yet.No point wasting important games on him 

[Majestic]

6 hours ago, Lone Wolf said:

Point is if you don't play him even v Zim & selecting mediocre talents like Avesh again & again who failed massively in IPl...  Then u are not using your resources properly. 

Haris Rauf Ferguson all used to play against weaker sides before playing at a higher level. 

Even Mohsin Khan should feel disappointed. 

He can be picked for ODIs but I personally don't feel the need for that. Mohsin should have been given a go in ODIs as his skills are pretty good for ODIs as well and bowled at good pace.

 

Nothing wrong in trying Avesh either.

[Lone Wolf]

29 minutes ago, Majestic said:

He can be picked for ODIs but I personally don't feel the need for that. Mohsin should have been given a go in ODIs as his skills are pretty good for ODIs as well and bowled at good pace.

 

Nothing wrong in trying Avesh either.

Yeah indeed Mohsin is another guy who has the X factor in him.  He bowls heavy lengths & at close to 90mph.  His death bowling was decent although sample size is small.  But definitely better overall skill set than Avesh. 

[wanted_desi]

Looks like Whoever isn’t on the squad will be part of Asia Cup and WC

[Ankit_sharma03]

11 hours ago, Majestic said:

Naseem can reverse the ball. His only skill is reverse swing with old bowl.

Naseem can move the new ball too 

 

11 hours ago, Majestic said:

Umran is not fit for any formats tbh if we are talking about selection in T20 squad. His short ball ploy would work mostly on associate teams as against good teams, he will give hit-me deliveries more than successfully being an enforcer in middle overs.

 

Good short ball at that pace can work at any batsman even a set one , we are not talking about 140-145.........he is above 150 

 

11 hours ago, Majestic said:

I would rather have liked if Mohsin was given games vs Zimbabwe because he has lot more skills maintaining good pace compared to Umran who don't have those skills.

 

I do agree with your some of the other posts you have mentioned where you would want to go with Bhuvi, Bumrah and Harshal/Arshdeep for the third pacer and maybe if Deepak Chahar is fit and back to rythm then another option in place of Bhuvi or backup in the squad.

 

I wud also like mohsin but he isnt on radar of team so no point discussing

[Ankit_sharma03]

11 hours ago, Lord said:

Umran got carted around by even Irish.

 

He has potential but clearly not ready yet.No point wasting important games on him 

everyone did , no one found right lengths on those games 

[Ankit_sharma03]

11 hours ago, Chakdephatte said:

Why some posters think it is India's responsibility to groom Umran?

 

It's always the players who serve the team, not the other way round. And India have too much talent to focus on any individual. If he is good enough, he will make it someday.

Exactly , Its just not about Umran there are more things to be covered as well. 

• Like siraj , prasidh getting good run in ODI is good
• Giving games to Deepak chahar 

[Suhaan]

2 hours ago, Lord said:

Umran got carted around by even Irish.

 

He has potential but clearly not ready yet.No point wasting important games on him 

Ireland certainly are well equipped at their own den

His pace was super ideal for those tiny grounds

[Suhaan]

2 hours ago, Chakdephatte said:

 

 

 

Did we send our A squad there? No, then what's the fuss? India have too many projects pending. Project Prasidh, Project Gill, Project Siraj. Cannot dump them for adjusting someone. Cannot try everybody at once.

Umran is not just your regular run of the mill bowler,same goes with Tyagi

You have to think out of the box to for some certain guys

You cannot limit him into an economical bowler,he will always go for runs His upside will always win India games as well

[Majestic]

1 hour ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Naseem can move the new ball too 

 

 

Good short ball at that pace can work at any batsman even a set one , we are not talking about 140-145.........he is above 150 

 

 

I wud also like mohsin but he isnt on radar of team so no point discussing

Never seen him do anything with the new ball so not sure. But anyways, I dont think he is good in that.

 

Umran's pace went down a bit in the series vs Ireland as compared to IPL by 4-5. He was bowling more in the range of 145-150 barring a couple here and there over 150+. It was not above 150 every now and then and that is because after getting carted away by bowling wrong direction, he decided to maintain more control and then the pace was back in 145-150 range. 

 

 

I would have used Mohsin here because the ODI series in Zimbabwe anyways has no effect on WT20 Squad for Australia. If guys like Tripathi or Ruturaj or Prasidh scores lots of runs or pick lot of wickets here, they would still not get selected for T20 World Cup. Mohsin could be given a start for the testing strategy for ODI World Cup 2023.

Edited July 31, 2022 by Majestic

[Chakdephatte]

27 minutes ago, Suhaan said:

Umran is not just your regular run of the mill bowler,same goes with Tyagi

 

Who is run of the mill fast bowler? Siraj? Prasidh Krishna? Avesh? Should they be dropped?

 

29 minutes ago, Suhaan said:

You cannot limit him into an economical bowler, he will always go for runs His upside will always win India games as well

 

Name one bowler who used to go for runs and played more than 25-30 games.

 

And it's not that he is the express bowler the world has ever seen.

[Suhaan]

29 minutes ago, Chakdephatte said:

 

Who is run of the mill fast bowler? Siraj? Prasidh Krishna? Avesh? Should they be dropped?

 

 

Name one bowler who used to go for runs and played more than 25-30 games.

 

And it's not that he is the express bowler the world has ever seen.

Avesh is disappointing,for India Umran is certainly a rare commodity

Did we ever had the opportunity to have an express bowler like him before?

Krishna,Siraj have had their taste of international cricket They aren't going anywhere

You arr arguing as if Umran has played 25-30 games?You have to fast-track few guys he and Tyagi are one of those

[Sandz]

22 hours ago, vishalvirsingh said:

why not Umraan Malik???

 

when the Opposition is Zimbabwe ( weak team). why cant you groom the pace bowler who is most talented?

Avesh , Prasidh , Deepak chahar and even Siraj is not required , shardul is also there , why cant you pick Umran Malik.

Some one is Jealous of his talent as Umran has the potential to bypass many folks who are ahead of the queue and directly start playing for INDIA.

when some one has the capability to bowl 150 to 157K - He should be allowed to move ahead of the queue.

 

Nothing against Arshdeep But I would probably support Umran.  I am worried Umran should not become a Varun aroon and fade away.

 

 

 

Err why? If anything we should support Arshdeep, he can be a much more complete bowler than Umran. 

 

Only thing Umran has over him is speed. Arhsdeep has height, can swing the bowl, has a good yorker and is left handed too boot. He needs to be developed and if he can add another 5-7 kms of speed and once he does he will be lethal. Umran also needs to be groomed but he is behind the pecking order as of now, he needs to go back to domestic and sort is line and length.

[singhvivek141]

16 hours ago, Chakdephatte said:

 

 

 

Did we send our A squad there? No, then what's the fuss? India have too many projects pending. Project Prasidh, Project Gill, Project Siraj. Cannot dump them for adjusting someone. Cannot try everybody at once.

There is sufficient space for all these experiments...Kohli, Rohit, Dhawan, Pujara, Rahane are on the dusk of their careers..may be an year or 2. We would need to try the players to fulfill them. Gill, Shaw, Shreyas, SKY,Vihari, Agarwal all are being rotated to plug in the backups.

In bowling as well, we have a big vaccum in quality after Bumrah and Shami, and we can't play them in every series.
Umesh has already hinted of retirement in 1-2 years, Ishant is gone case as well, Bhuvi is unavailable for Test/ODI's, Thakur isn't a long term option.
We have 3-4 bowling spots open...Prasidh, Siraj, Umran, Arshdeep, Chahar..all are being rotated in the limited over formats and eventually 1-2 will find a settled place in XI.

Regarding Umran, I have mentioned that perhaps he is not in a position to play against the likes of Aus, Eng, SA at the moment. But the teams who are weaker against pace, he can be tried. He shown his skills in IPL under the guidance of Steyn, he can do the same by learning alongside Bumrah and Shami.

[singhvivek141]

10 hours ago, Sandz said:

 

Err why? If anything we should support Arshdeep, he can be a much more complete bowler than Umran. 

 

Only thing Umran has over him is speed. Arhsdeep has height, can swing the bowl, has a good yorker and is left handed too boot. He needs to be developed and if he can add another 5-7 kms of speed and once he does he will be lethal. Umran also needs to be groomed but he is behind the pecking order as of now, he needs to go back to domestic and sort is line and length.

But why only Arshdeep, why not Mohsin, Khaleel, Yash or Mukesh ?
Mohsin, Yash and Khaleel are taller and faster (atleast Mohsin is), while Mukesh can generate greater amount of swing at the similar pace. They performed better than Arshdeep in the IPL as well. Maybe they might turn out to be better than Arshdeep.

[singhvivek141]

13 hours ago, Suhaan said:

 

Did we ever had the opportunity to have an express bowler like him before?

We had Varun Aaron, and we mishandled it royally.
 

 

13 hours ago, Suhaan said:

You have to fast-track few guys he and Tyagi are one of those

Absolutely, no disrespect to Avesh or Arshdeep, but there is no harm in propelling ahead someone with higher potential. 

[Frustrated]

Wonder why no Arshdeep in odi squad.   Is he being groomed for only T20?