Why are we trying to bring back Trundler Culture in Indian cricket again ?? Our pace bowling revolution started with the pace and bounce of Bumrah and Shami.and the height of Ishant.

[Nikhil_cric]

34 minutes ago, express bowling said:

Saini  3 for 83 in a very high scoring Duleep Trophy match. 

 

Should have been playing the Unofficial Tests after a good show last time for India A. 

Navdeep Saini is almost 30 years old. He has no future in international cricket. 

[express bowling]

1 hour ago, Nikhil_cric said:

Navdeep Saini is almost 30 years old. He has no future in international cricket. 

 

But almost 29 year old trundler Mukesh Kumar has replaced him in India A.  Age is not the reason why he was dropped. 

[Nikhil_cric]

2 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

But almost 29 year old trundler Mukesh Kumar has replaced him in India A.  Age is not the reason why he was dropped. 

Not justifying the inclusion/exclusion of anybody else. Just saying that it really does not make much difference unless the likes of Tyagi are sent on these tours.

[raki05]

Forget selectors people here love Bhuvi so much , i am not sure what he brings unless ball swing he is not good even pp. He doesn't have any wkt taking ability, and he even get scared to bowl tailenders in death over. He will try to ball 5-6th stump either on off side or leg side in death overs and then the one which will be in line even tailenders line him up and hit him for six and four. That's his story since long , besides he is a pathetic fielder and worst tailender I don't know who is worst between him and chahal. These kind of trundlers and pathetic all round cricketers playing at this age is shameful for India.

Edited September 11, 2022 by raki05

[express bowling]

Good to see Kuldeep Sen, Umran Malik and Raj Bawa getting selected for A-team ODIs. Quick bowler Saini is there too but he is not s good white ball bowler nowadays. 

 

After the exceptionally slow attack we chose for Asia Cup, lots and lots of people talked about the need for quick pacers, including big names like Gambhir, Srikanth, Vengsarkar, Wasim, Waqar and Harbhajan.

 

Good to see this aspect being rectified in this squad atleast. 

 

 

 

 

[express bowling]

@AKane, who had watched cricket in the 1970s, once said that India probably would not have picked Holding and Roberts because they were too inaccurate by our " august standards ".

 

Your contribution to this thread would be really welcome. 

Edited September 17, 2022 by express bowling

[Ankit_sharma03]

On 9/11/2022 at 3:14 AM, Nikhil_cric said:

Navdeep Saini is almost 30 years old. He has no future in international cricket. 

age shudnt be a thing , with saini its skillset . He has enough skills to keep people interested but not enough to be successful at international level for long 

The way he bowled in 2019 IPL had he been bowling like that he cud have been on plane to australia, thats the thing u always wont bowl at ur best and for ur worst time u need something to fall back on to which he doesnt have.  Even during his best he was condition reliant as even then he struggled on slow wkts lacking variations or ability to move the ball much or even accuracy and adaptability 

 

He has two weapons that come in handy in t20 - hard length and yorker but he needs to add more, in t20 age anyways have never been big issue as u just have 2 ball 4 overs........so that door will be open . In test unless he doesnt make the ball talk much i dont see him getting ahead of guys like Siraj, prasidh ................

 

[Lone Wolf]

19 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

age shudnt be a thing , with saini its skillset . He has enough skills to keep people interested but not enough to be successful at international level for long 

The way he bowled in 2019 IPL had he been bowling like that he cud have been on plane to australia, thats the thing u always wont bowl at ur best and for ur worst time u need something to fall back on to which he doesnt have.  Even during his best he was condition reliant as even then he struggled on slow wkts lacking variations or ability to move the ball much or even accuracy and adaptability 

 

He has two weapons that come in handy in t20 - hard length and yorker but he needs to add more, in t20 age anyways have never been big issue as u just have 2 ball 4 overs........so that door will be open . In test unless he doesnt make the ball talk much i dont see him getting ahead of guys like Siraj, prasidh ................

 

Saini should go the Rauf way and become a T20 specialist.  4 overs of sheer pace & hard length + nailing his skill of yorker should be enough for whatever future he has left.  I'd like to see him in overseas leagues too as he would be pretty handy in BBL or the SA league but ain't happening. 

[Chakdephatte]

5 hours ago, express bowling said:

After the exceptionally slow attack we chose for Asia Cup, lots and lots of people talked about the need for quick pacers, including big names like Gambhir, Srikanth, Vengsarkar, Wasim, Waqar and Harbhajan.

 

Both Umran and Saini were playing for earlier, they were never out of contention. Kuldeep was injury cover for Chahar, so he was in scheme of things as well. Your point is irrelevant. No one cares about these expert opinions, especially Waqar and Harbhajan.

[Ankit_sharma03]

9 hours ago, Lone Wolf said:

Saini should go the Rauf way and become a T20 specialist.  4 overs of sheer pace & hard length + nailing his skill of yorker should be enough for whatever future he has left.  I'd like to see him in overseas leagues too as he would be pretty handy in BBL or the SA league but ain't happening. 

Rauf has solid variations n control , these things can be achieved which is why i said he ll always have the door open in t20 .....................all these thing can be learned

rauf is great at mixing it up 

 

 

 

1st 2 balls were 122- 125 and then fires in at 144 

 

[Ankit_sharma03]

16 hours ago, Chakdephatte said:

 

Both Umran and Saini were playing for earlier, they were never out of contention. Kuldeep was injury cover for Chahar, so he was in scheme of things as well. Your point is irrelevant. No one cares about these expert opinions, especially Waqar and Harbhajan.

Yea these guys are in contention which is why team is keep them around in mix . They arent getting selecting coz they dont deserve it or they are not ready. 

Even at India A level a lot of them havent done enough to earn that spot yet they are given a chance. Selectors need to give chances to domestic performers also to keep a balance or else domestic performances will start to loose its value . Varna harbhajan hi bolta hai why didnt XYZ get a chance when he picked after taking so many domestic wkts and how does washington sundar get selected 

 

The numbers that Kuldeep sen has in domestic or even IPL , selectors have shown a foresight by selecting them . An avg of 76 in List A and yet getting a chance in 50 over A side is kudos to selectors 

Even Umran malik being taken to SA-A was faith selection more then merit . 

Edited September 17, 2022 by Ankit_sharma03

[Chakdephatte]

1 minute ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

The numbers that Kuldeep sen has in domestic or even IPL , selectors have shown a foresight by selecting them . An avg of 76 in List A and yet getting a chance in 50 over A side is kudos to selectors 

Even Umran malik being taken to SA-A was faith selection more then merit . 

 

Expect that Umran had got the hype due to IPL. Kuldeep is totally a potential pick.

 

Fast tracking Kuldeep is positive, but I am confused, if it's purely a potential pick, why not Tyagi for shorter formats and Mavi for 4 dayers. Really wanted them to develop.

[Ankit_sharma03]

9 hours ago, Chakdephatte said:

 

Expect that Umran had got the hype due to IPL. Kuldeep is totally a potential pick.

 

Fast tracking Kuldeep is positive, but I am confused, if it's purely a potential pick, why not Tyagi for shorter formats and Mavi for 4 dayers. Really wanted them to develop.

tyagi hasnt played a lot of cricket so he 1st needs to prove his match fitness ...............he has played just 2 competitive games this yr. Also that can increase the chances of injury again which even happened in IPL. In domestic u can take it slow and start building up ur intensity but a higher stake game will make u bowl it all out 

 

Mavi performances have been off and his pace has been down , if he gets it up his skillset is already very good . He is genuine wkt taker who is good at all phases. Atleast Umran-Kuldeep are bowling at full pace they just lack experience which is not in their hands 

 

Both are potential picks , i mean IPL hype shudnt get u in red ball specially when controlling new ball is a massive issue. But they are given many competitive games coz thats how they ll develop, the more u play the better u get.  

Edited September 17, 2022 by Ankit_sharma03

[Lone Wolf]

1 hour ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Rauf has solid variations n control , these things can be achieved which is why i said he ll always have the door open in t20 .....................all these thing can be learned

rauf is great at mixing it up 

 

 

 

1st 2 balls were 122- 125 and then fires in at 144 

 

Yes but Saini has bit of variations in him as well.  I was seeing highlights how he bowled in NZ T20s in 2020.  Looked pretty decent to me.  Was bowling fast & using his slower balls too. 

That Australia tour thrashing was so bad that run leaking machine name was tagged along also he didn't pick many wickets which hurt him. 

Avesh Shardul despite bowling more poorly end up picking wickets or lucky breaks to get a constant run.   Another among unlucky ones was Khaleel who was brought too raw. 

[express bowling]

Shardul Thakur getting into both the A-team squads is so weird.

 

He is an established pacer.

 

A budding young pacer could have been developed in his place  

 

 

[Ankit_sharma03]

9 hours ago, Lone Wolf said:

Yes but Saini has bit of variations in him as well.  I was seeing highlights how he bowled in NZ T20s in 2020.  Looked pretty decent to me.  Was bowling fast & using his slower balls too. 

That Australia tour thrashing was so bad that run leaking machine name was tagged along also he didn't pick many wickets which hurt him. 

Avesh Shardul despite bowling more poorly end up picking wickets or lucky breaks to get a constant run.   Another among unlucky ones was Khaleel who was brought too raw. 

shudnt be judged on Aus tour coz i remember he had a split webbing that time . 

 

about that NZ t20 he has to do that more, these days pretty much everyone has variation even shami but the reason both havent been effective in long term with it is lengths and using it at right time and % of it . Their was this SA game which happened on a slow surface and his lack of variation made him go for runs.....so this mixed sample shows how he doesnt have consistency with variations too. One thing is having another thing is executing m he showed a great display of hard n yorkers in one seasons but cudnt repeat it. Need consistency with anything , guys like kuldeep and umran will get benefit of lack of experience at domestic level but Saini wont 

Also if u see his new ball returns in IPL its been very very poor , so a lot of work needs to be done 

 

Post 2019 IPL i havent seen him bowl at his best- now is it a confidence issue or lack of rhythm i dont know but he has once his best was not working for he didnt have enough to fall back on 

 

Avesh is a pure case of bad form and lost confidence now 

Shardul 

Edited September 17, 2022 by Ankit_sharma03

[raki05]

Lol when useless Avesh can get so many matches without any spark in bowling Saini and all deserve more chances even a no name domestic 140 bowler can match Avesh Kumar performance. Selectors are biased in selecting some whereas being harsh on some others. Saini never get this much opportunities continuously like Avesh. Even in a series he will play only in 1 or 2 matches and then bench in other. If a trundler get smashed and a fast bowler will get smashed our selectors will drop the faster ones first. In India till the time we have useless biletral stats worshipper we will only get such mediocre selection and hence mediocre results.

[express bowling]

23 minutes ago, raki05 said:

 Selectors are biased in selecting some whereas being harsh on some others. Saini never get this much opportunities continuously like Avesh. Even in a series he will play only in 1 or 2 matches and then bench in other. If a trundler get smashed and a fast bowler will get smashed our selectors will drop the faster ones first. In India till the time we have useless biletral stats worshipper we will only get such mediocre selection and hence mediocre results.

 

Very true bro !

[vvvslaxman]

On 9/3/2022 at 5:30 AM, Ankit_sharma03 said:

do u think its easy to drop shami-siraj-bumrah in test ?? coz someone has to be 

Thakur plays purely due to give batting cushion

Umran lacks new ball bowling skills , how can he play test ??  They did take him to play in SA - A series red ball 

 

Isnt prasidh getting chances in ODI ?? They did select him for India-A too but he got injured cant blame selectors for that 

 

In order for these guys to break the door down someone has to completely go off the boil like Ishant did. That created an opening. With Bhuvi permanently decommissioned for Tests, it was easy for Siraj to gain entry. Right now Shami is the most experienced and most likely will be the next to be phased out. Has he reached that stage yet? Not so sure. Even then Umesh is the back up in line. Unseating established players will required some breakthrough performance. So these guys have to be on their toes waiting for opportunity. When they get they should make it count.

[Ankit_sharma03]

9 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

In order for these guys to break the door down someone has to completely go off the boil like Ishant did. That created an opening. With Bhuvi permanently decommissioned for Tests, it was easy for Siraj to gain entry. Right now Shami is the most experienced and most likely will be the next to be phased out. Has he reached that stage yet? Not so sure. Even then Umesh is the back up in line. Unseating established players will required some breakthrough performance. So these guys have to be on their toes waiting for opportunity. When they get they should make it count.

absolutely , u just cant make it to a side with inconsistent performance and lesser value when their is already someone established. 

 

• Avesh khan got his chances and didnt make it count
• Arshdeep made it count
• Harshal made it count 
• Umran didnt, although didnt get enough but he was showing negative value so was tough to back him for long 
• Hooda and DK made enough out of whatever chances they got 
• Prasidh has been given a good run in ODI now 

 

In a limited period giving everyone a fair run wasnt going to be possible , they gave chances to few and a fair run at that............whoever utilized it is on plane . 

If this was kohli time they wudnt have even gotten a chance after 2 failures 

Edited September 17, 2022 by Ankit_sharma03