Why are we trying to bring back Trundler Culture in Indian cricket again ?? Our pace bowling revolution started with the pace and bounce of Bumrah and Shami.and the height of Ishant.

[express bowling]

1 minute ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

Our biggest issue in the 2000s was reduction of pace. Munaf was hitting 140 kph easily when he started. But he turned into a line and length bowler. Ishant was fairly quick and bouncy at the start. He also dropped his pace. Umran in the most recent ireland series was bowling at low 140 kphs Significant reduction of pace.  I understand all fast bowlers drop their pace. Rabada often bowls like trundlers. So was Steyn.  Apart from Shami i have not seen any bowler displaying the ability of maintaining the pace right through the match.   You can plan all you want. But at the end of the day it is entirely in the hands of bowlers themselves.  Tyagi is the only guy who gives some hope. His action is less injury prone.  Hope they take the right flexibility training rather than gym training.  We are looking for bowlers who can sustain hostility right through ala Ferguson, Nortje. Not someone who can bowl a 150 kph delivery followed by three 140 kph deliveries.

 

 

Bumrah and Shami are both good at sustaining pace.

 

But a system which helps and guides genuine quicks is needed too.  There is only so much one can do by himself.

 

Setting up good systems is the key to sustained success.

[Nikhil_cric]

Because our pace bowling resources are not as good as people think they are. We are a lot better than where we were pre-2015 .

 

I keep hearing about the likes of Navdeep Saini but he is 30 years old almost. 

 

If you want consistent 140 pace + high quality bowling or thereabouts, the likes of nagarkoti, mavi and tyagi need to be given all the resources available to develop them. 

 

Or they will either be lost or become lesser versions of what they could become. 

 

Only these 3 have what it takes to be elite pacers from whatever I've seen .  The rest are much of a muchness. They will do a job but don't have that extra bit in terms of natural ability. 

[Chakdephatte]

You guys have serious agenda against the TM. Whatever they do, they are not getting the credit. Siraj, Prasidh, Avesh are getting consistent chances. How can 8-9 names play at the same time?

[Jay]

7 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

Because our pace bowling resources are not as good as people think they are. We are a lot better than where we were pre-2015 .

 

I keep hearing about the likes of Navdeep Saini but he is 30 years old almost. 

 

If you want consistent 140 pace + high quality bowling or thereabouts, the likes of nagarkoti, mavi and tyagi need to be given all the resources available to develop them. 

 

Or they will either be lost or become lesser versions of what they could become. 

 

Only these 3 have what it takes to be elite pacers from whatever I've seen .  The rest are much of a muchness. They will do a job but don't have that extra bit in terms of natural ability. 

Our fast bowling resources are ebetter than ever. Much higher than pakies and even s.africa. only Australia can match us for depth in fast bowling

 

 

We just don't pick them.

[Chakdephatte]

4 hours ago, express bowling said:

Kuldeep Sen ... Not picked for Unofficial Tests. He is a net bowler for India though but did not get to play the last one or two Ranji games.

Why exactly do you want? He is coming as an injury cover despite having a mediocre IPL season and not a great domestic record. How can he even get directly into XI without performing at lower levels.
 

4 hours ago, express bowling said:

Kartik Tyagi ... The biggest pace talent in India after Bumrah.

Then there are Shivam Mavi and Kamlesh Nagarkoti who seem to be almost lost in the system. 

 

Forever injured. Mavi even tried to hide it. How can they play if they are not fit.

4 hours ago, express bowling said:

Mohammad Siraj ... Why is he not getting any chances in T20Is ?? He is an all phase bowler, can pick early wickets and can bowl good quick yorkers at the death.

 

Take a survey. Most people don't consider him good. In fact, we brought him in ODIs out of nowhere. Played after three years under Dravid. I think they want more consistent bowlers.

 

4 hours ago, express bowling said:

Umran Malik ... Picked for a couple of T20Is but dropped unceremoniously. Did not get the long rope that Avesh is getting.

 

Unceremoniously? Did you expect them to give him 21 topon ki salaami before dropping him?

Edited September 3, 2022 by Chakdephatte

[rollingstoned]

32 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

Our biggest issue in the 2000s was reduction of pace. Munaf was hitting 140 kph easily when he started. But he turned into a line and length bowler. Ishant was fairly quick and bouncy at the start. He also dropped his pace. Umran in the most recent ireland series was bowling at low 140 kphs Significant reduction of pace.  I understand all fast bowlers drop their pace. Rabada often bowls like trundlers. So was Steyn.  Apart from Shami i have not seen any bowler displaying the ability of maintaining the pace right through the match.   You can plan all you want. But at the end of the day it is entirely in the hands of bowlers themselves.  Tyagi is the only guy who gives some hope. His action is less injury prone.  Hope they take the right flexibility training rather than gym training.  We are looking for bowlers who can sustain hostility right through ala Ferguson, Nortje. Not someone who can bowl a 150 kph delivery followed by three 140 kph deliveries.

Pacers we had in the first decade of the century were not bad but lacked the right approach to fitness and captains who would back them the way they needed to be in Dhonis case. Zak for eg benefited massively from a county stint. Someone like Munaf or Irfan Pathan either did not have the right advice as far as their bodies or biomechanics were concerned or the right guidance on what type of bowlers they should look to be and how to go to the next level in the latters case. This thankfully has changed since the last decade which also explains ishants resurgence. 

Edited September 3, 2022 by rollingstoned

[Jay]

4 minutes ago, Chakdephatte said:

 

Unceremoniously? Did you expect them to give 21 topon ki salaami to him.

 

 

Forever injured. Mavi even tried to hide it. How can they play if they are not fit.

 

Take a survey. Most people don't consider him. In fact, we brought him in ODIs out of nowhere. Played after three years under Dravid. They see his talent but maybe, not the time for him.

 

 

What exactly do you want? He is coming as an injury cover despite having a mediocre IPL season and not a great domestic record. How can he even get directly into XI without performing at lower levels.

Yea because sena pitches are the same as india pitches??

 

 

[vvvslaxman]

4 minutes ago, rollingstoned said:

Pacers we had in the first decade of the century were not bad but lacked the right approach to fitness and captains who would back them the way they needed to be in Dhonis case. Zak for eg benefited massively from a county stint. Someone like Munaf or Irfan Pathan either did not have the right advice as far as their bodies or biomechanics were concerned or the right guidance on what type of bowlers they should look to be and how to go to the next level in the latters case. This thankfully has changed since the last decade which also explains ishants resurgence. 

 

Whatever desi training Shami took he better passes it on to others. It did incredible wonders. Time and again i have seen his energy right through a match. Here we have Pak pacers breaking down after 4 overs split by 2 spells. Shami maintained that for the entire day on several occasions.

[Jay]

4 minutes ago, Chakdephatte said:

 

Unceremoniously? Did you expect them to give 21 topon ki salaami to him.

 

 

Forever injured. Mavi even tried to hide it. How can they play if they are not fit.

 

Take a survey. Most people don't consider him. In fact, we brought him in ODIs out of nowhere. Played after three years under Dravid. They see his talent but maybe, not the time for him.

 

 

What exactly do you want? He is coming as an injury cover despite having a mediocre IPL season and not a great domestic record. How can he even get directly into XI without performing at lower levels.

Yea because sena pitches are the same as india pitches??

 

 

[vvvslaxman]

7 minutes ago, Chakdephatte said:

 

Unceremoniously? Did you expect them to give 21 topon ki salaami to him.

 

 

Forever injured. Mavi even tried to hide it. How can they play if they are not fit.

 

Take a survey. Most people don't consider him. In fact, we brought him in ODIs out of nowhere. Played after three years under Dravid. They see his talent but maybe, not the time for him.

 

 

What exactly do you want? He is coming as an injury cover despite having a mediocre IPL season and not a great domestic record. How can he even get directly into XI without performing at lower levels.

 

You need to have a great stock ball to succeed. You cannot hide behind pace forever. Naseem Shah looked ordinary when he started. Now that he is able to move the ball both ways he is dangerous. Gun barrell sraight fast deliveries have very short shelf life. Eventually even associate sides will line up against you.  Mavi rarely displayed that.  Tyagi is definitely better than both Mavi and nagarkoti whose height probably was going to be his enemy.

 

 

[Jay]

3 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

Whatever desi training Shami took he better passes it on to others. It did incredible wonders. Time and again i have seen his energy right through a match. Here we have Pak pacers breaking down after 4 overs split by 2 spells. Shami maintained that for the entire day on several occasions.

Shami defecates on shaheen in tests and odi. Shaheen is a nothing g bowler in control of sshami. Only in t20 shaheen chutiya can be good and that too in u.a.e

[Ankit_sharma03]

11 hours ago, Jay said:

I would back arshdeep if he shwoed me some bounce bowling ability. But I am a bit disappointed. 

 

 

									Progressive
Match	Date	M/Inns	Versus	Ground	Batsman Dismissed	Overs	Wickets		S/R	E/R	Wkts	Avg
1	07/07/2022	2nd	England	The Rose Bowl	R J W Topley (c †K D Karthik)	3.3	2/18		10.50	5.14	1	9.00
					M W Parkinson (c D J Hooda)						2
2	29/07/2022	2nd	West Indies	Brian Lara Stadium	K R Mayers (c B Kumar)	4.0	2/24		11.25	5.60	3	10.50
					A J Hosein (b)						4
3	01/08/2022	2nd	West Indies	Warner Park	R Powell (b)	4.0	1/26		13.80	5.91	5	13.60
4	02/08/2022	1st	West Indies	Warner Park	R Powell (c D J Hooda)	4.0	1/33		15.50	6.52	6	16.83
5	06/08/2022	2nd	West Indies	Central Broward Regional Park	J O Holder (c S V Samson)	3.1	3/12		12.44	6.05	7	12.56
					O C McCoy (b)						8
					D C Drakes (b)						9
6	07/08/2022	2nd	West Indies	Central Broward Regional Park		2.0	0/18		13.78	6.34		14.56
7	28/08/2022	1st	Pakistan	Dubai International Cricket Stadium	Mohammad Nawaz (c †K D Karthik)	3.5	2/33		13.36	6.69	10	14.91
					Shahnawaz Dahani (b)						11
8	31/08/2022	2nd	Hong Kong	Dubai International Cricket Stadium	Y Murtaza (c Avesh Khan)	4.0	1/44		14.25	7.30	12	17.33

 

 

just one bad games in 8 games, u just cant complain...........just cant 

 

Edited September 3, 2022 by Ankit_sharma03

[Ankit_sharma03]

10 hours ago, Jay said:

I am talking about shami underperforming in England recently. Siraj going missing etc. Should have been replaced by prasidh in SA and England.

then be fair and talk about prasidh underperforming in ODI recent series  and say to drop him too 

No one will perform every day 

[vvvslaxman]

2 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

 

 

									Progressive
Match	Date	M/Inns	Versus	Ground	Batsman Dismissed	Overs	Wickets		S/R	E/R	Wkts	Avg
1	07/07/2022	2nd	England	The Rose Bowl	R J W Topley (c †K D Karthik)	3.3	2/18		10.50	5.14	1	9.00
					M W Parkinson (c D J Hooda)						2
2	29/07/2022	2nd	West Indies	Brian Lara Stadium	K R Mayers (c B Kumar)	4.0	2/24		11.25	5.60	3	10.50
					A J Hosein (b)						4
3	01/08/2022	2nd	West Indies	Warner Park	R Powell (b)	4.0	1/26		13.80	5.91	5	13.60
4	02/08/2022	1st	West Indies	Warner Park	R Powell (c D J Hooda)	4.0	1/33		15.50	6.52	6	16.83
5	06/08/2022	2nd	West Indies	Central Broward Regional Park	J O Holder (c S V Samson)	3.1	3/12		12.44	6.05	7	12.56
					O C McCoy (b)						8
					D C Drakes (b)						9
6	07/08/2022	2nd	West Indies	Central Broward Regional Park		2.0	0/18		13.78	6.34		14.56
7	28/08/2022	1st	Pakistan	Dubai International Cricket Stadium	Mohammad Nawaz (c †K D Karthik)	3.5	2/33		13.36	6.69	10	14.91
					Shahnawaz Dahani (b)						11
8	31/08/2022	2nd	Hong Kong	Dubai International Cricket Stadium	Y Murtaza (c Avesh Khan)	4.0	1/44		14.25	7.30	12	17.33

 

 

just one bad games in 8 games, u just cant complain...........just cant 

 

 

Arshdeep's dipping yorker can become legendary if he can sharpen that skill. It is very hard to get under that delivery.  He just has to work out his combination of deliveries and field set more importantly. Other day Rohit not having third man kinda messed up Arshdeep's spell. He was taking the ball away from left hander. With no third man slicing over infield was easier.

[Jay]

Just now, Ankit_sharma03 said:

then be fair and talk about prasidh underperforming in ODI recent series  and say to drop him too 

No one will perform every day 

Youngsters are different. They need time on field. Old farts can rest for these useless bilateral games. 

[Ankit_sharma03]

9 hours ago, Jay said:

Youngsters are different. They need time on field. Old farts can rest for these useless bilateral games. 

young old again doesnt matter to team , performance do 

Ladki dhundhne to nikle nhin ho jo jawaan chahaiye .................experience has its own value 

[Ankit_sharma03]

9 hours ago, Jay said:

Youngsters are different. They need time on field. Old farts can rest for these useless bilateral games. 

siraj isnt a young player ?? 

[Jay]

3 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

young old again doesnt matter to team , performance do 

Ladki dhundhne to nikle nhin ho jo jawaan chahaiye .................experience has its own value 

Young players need more time to develop. Washed up players should be sent packing. 

[Jay]

2 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

siraj isnt a young player ?? 

Yea but we don't need trundlers like bhubi in odi.

[AuxiliA]

15 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

Whatever desi training Shami took he better passes it on to others. It did incredible wonders. Time and again i have seen his energy right through a match. Here we have Pak pacers breaking down after 4 overs split by 2 spells. Shami maintained that for the entire day on several occasions.

 

Damn true. Shami looks like an unfit 45 year old truck driver, yet bowls with venom that only few in the world have or if any. Best Asian pacer of the last decade by a mile. I have him in my All time India Test & ODI XIs.