sandeep Posted September 4, 2022 Posted September 4, 2022 1 hour ago, coffee_rules said: But how will you fly those armada of drones from 1000s of miles away. With aircraft carriers it can be launched from 100 miles away from the enemy esp Pak and China You can have 10 ships 1/5 the size of Vikrant, each capable of deploying and supporting 100s of drones. Probably at less than 1/5 the cost.
sandeep Posted September 4, 2022 Posted September 4, 2022 36 minutes ago, Khota said: In modern warfare a carrier may not survive the first 5 minutes. Anti ship cruise missiles are a reality, but slightly overrated at present. But yes, a carrier is a floating bullseye in todays age of gps, satellite and hypersonic missiles.
Khota Posted September 4, 2022 Posted September 4, 2022 2 minutes ago, sandeep said: Anti ship cruise missiles are a reality, but slightly overrated at present. But yes, a carrier is a floating bullseye in todays age of gps, satellite and hypersonic missiles. Hard to defend it with above threats. sandeep 1
mishra Posted September 4, 2022 Posted September 4, 2022 4 hours ago, sandeep said: Anti ship cruise missiles are a reality, but slightly overrated at present. But yes, a carrier is a floating bullseye in todays age of gps, satellite and hypersonic missiles. Don’t these carrier also have a very advanced radar and missile defence too. Also, They don’t move as standalone. They are flanked by submarines, smaller ships and aircrafts. They aren’t sitting ducks. They are only means by which A country does its signalling against hegemony of another. How do u get US drones to do regular freedom of navigation voyage in south China sea. Clarke 1
Khota Posted September 4, 2022 Posted September 4, 2022 17 minutes ago, mishra said: Don’t these carrier also have a very advanced radar and missile defence too. Also, They don’t move as standalone. They are flanked by submarines, smaller ships and aircrafts. They aren’t sitting ducks. They are only means by which A country does its signalling against hegemony of another. How do u get US drones to do regular freedom of navigation voyage in south China sea. On paper yes, but in real life I doubt if besides US any country can defend their Carriers.
G_B_ Posted September 5, 2022 Posted September 5, 2022 18 hours ago, sandeep said: Not sure if carriers offer that much value from a cost-benefit perspective over the next few decades. Warfare is moving away from large expensive platforms to fleets of autonomous cheaper expendable platforms. The PLAN has an armada of drones mapping the ocean subsurface. Just like cellphones gave India an opportunity to "catch up" to modern telecom availability for the masses without having to install old generation tech to the last village, Indian armed forces need to think progressively instead of greedily eyeing previous generation expensive white elephants. This is not about just aircraft carriers, but a general comment. Ashley Tellis made a 'telling' point recently that given India's budget constraints and priorities, going after a multi-carrier navy would translate into questionable budget allocations for a proper submarine force, which in terms of countering China and Pak, could potentially be of more importance. Again, I do not claim expertise in evaluating these questions, but these are questions that need to be raised and authoritatively addressed before trillions are spent and locked in to spend over the next 50 years. I partially agree. Which is why i am not for india getting more than 3/4 carrirers (which even china is building). We also have conventional (not nuclear) carriers which means the remit appears to be indian ocean , bay of bengal with one in the dock for maintaince. That sort of remit is perfectly fine. India needs to focus on its submarine force. Which we are through our nuclear subs and newer attack subs. Clarke and ravishingravi 2
Clarke Posted September 5, 2022 Posted September 5, 2022 A set of drones or even subs don't project sufficient power in certain scenarios. The Royal Navy needed their carriers to remove the Argentines and their air force from the Falklands. Who knows what scenario develops in the Indian ocean region, which is where the Navy likely needs these floating cities. ravishingravi and coffee_rules 2
ravishingravi Posted September 5, 2022 Posted September 5, 2022 Carriers vs Submarines has been a debate since donkey's ages. But I guess its good to have some.
G_B_ Posted September 5, 2022 Posted September 5, 2022 They are mobile air bases in a way and force multipliers. So in simplistic terms an air craft carrier can dock off andaman etc and act as an air strip with a squadran supplementing the airforce in providing air cover for the destroyers. Typically an air fraft carrier sits back and lets the destroyers and frigates etc do that damage. coffee_rules 1
G_B_ Posted September 5, 2022 Posted September 5, 2022 And even with submarines there are issues with airbourne submarine hunters like the P8 having a big impact in making submarines sitting ducks. India has 12 P8 and will need around 20 to 25 more to cover all territory.
mishra Posted September 5, 2022 Posted September 5, 2022 (edited) 4 hours ago, G_B_ said: They are mobile air bases in a way and force multipliers. So in simplistic terms an air craft carrier can dock off andaman etc and act as an air strip with a squadran supplementing the airforce in providing air cover for the destroyers. Typically an air fraft carrier sits back and lets the destroyers and frigates etc do that damage. Exactly, Thats what my point was. They don’t walk within firing range. They take the jets and subs and frigates and subs in formation from where they can effectively support or blockade a particular part of sea corridor. Ie You may have to fight one aircraft carrier with another countries aircraft carrier Edited September 5, 2022 by mishra
Khota Posted September 5, 2022 Posted September 5, 2022 If a war breaks out India would be unable to defend their fleet against China. China has made lot of strides.
G_B_ Posted September 6, 2022 Posted September 6, 2022 I dont buy this... What strides has china made to boss india around west of the strait of malaccas? You think the indian airforce will sit around and not get involved?
Khota Posted September 7, 2022 Posted September 7, 2022 17 hours ago, G_B_ said: I dont buy this... What strides has china made to boss india around west of the strait of malaccas? You think the indian airforce will sit around and not get involved? China economy is x5 that of Inida. They have huge advantages. India is riddled bu bureaucracy. Economic growth of India has been dismal under BJP. They are churning out planes, trains, ships at much faster rate than India. bharathh 1
bharathh Posted September 8, 2022 Posted September 8, 2022 14 hours ago, Khota said: China economy is x5 that of Inida. They have huge advantages. India is riddled bu bureaucracy. Economic growth of India has been dismal under BJP. They are churning out planes, trains, ships at much faster rate than India. So you are a defence expert as well! What are these advantages that come from economy that allows them to patrol the Indian Ocean better than India? You do know that their main ports are in the East and the Pacific sphere that they have minimal presence in the Indian Ocean? Also, their main shipping routes can be targeted as they come close to India where the bulk of the Indian Navy resides? Clarke 1
Khota Posted September 8, 2022 Posted September 8, 2022 5 minutes ago, bharathh said: So you are a defence expert as well! What are these advantages that come from economy that allows them to patrol the Indian Ocean better than India? You do know that their main ports are in the East and the Pacific sphere that they have minimal presence in the Indian Ocean? Also, their main shipping routes can be targeted as they come close to India where the bulk of the Indian Navy resides? I am no expert but China has enough frigates, war ships, ac carriers that they can take on India in Indian Ocean. They are more focused on Taiwan right now. People in India need to realize that China is the number one enemy of India.
bharathh Posted September 8, 2022 Posted September 8, 2022 14 minutes ago, Khota said: I am no expert but China has enough frigates, war ships, ac carriers that they can take on India in Indian Ocean. They are more focused on Taiwan right now. People in India need to realize that China is the number one enemy of India. China may be #1 enemy of India - but India is not the #1 enemy of China. S.Korea, Taiwan, Japan, Aus, US, etc. are of bigger concerns to them - which means the majority of their navy power will be in the Pacific and the S.China Sea. India's navy power while smaller is way bigger in the Indian Ocean where it is concentrated - not to mention air power which China has 0 in the Indian Ocean.
Khota Posted September 8, 2022 Posted September 8, 2022 1 minute ago, bharathh said: China may be #1 enemy of India - but India is not the #1 enemy of China. S.Korea, Taiwan, Japan, Aus, US, etc. are of bigger concerns to them - which means the majority of their navy power will be in the Pacific and the S.China Sea. India's navy power while smaller is way bigger in the Indian Ocean where it is concentrated - not to mention air power which China has 0 in the Indian Ocean. And China has no need to defend Indian Ocean. They are interested in their straits only.
bharathh Posted September 8, 2022 Posted September 8, 2022 15 minutes ago, Khota said: And China has no need to defend Indian Ocean. They are interested in their straits only. These are the active sea trade routes.. see the ones in the Indian Ocean? That's where China gets its energy supplies - not to mention sends its products to the rest of the world. See how close they are to India? That's the peninsula jutting out into the Indian ocean. India only has to disrupt those with its superior numerical advantage at sea in the Indian Ocean upto the Malacca straits and from the Arabian peninsula where China has almost 0 Navy - not to mention airforce.
Khota Posted September 8, 2022 Posted September 8, 2022 16 minutes ago, bharathh said: These are the active sea trade routes.. see the ones in the Indian Ocean? That's where China gets its energy supplies - not to mention sends its products to the rest of the world. See how close they are to India? That's the peninsula jutting out into the Indian ocean. India only has to disrupt those with its superior numerical advantage at sea in the Indian Ocean upto the Malacca straits and from the Arabian peninsula where China has almost 0 Navy - not to mention airforce. And in your mind with will Indian Navy be able to project its power and defend against China?
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